First off. Can someone define topfeed? Like seriously. What is and what is not a topfeed? Not that it really matters because retals are largely based on land lost but the term is obviously overused. We're to the point that fatter countries with more networth are "topfeeding" smaller skinnier countries. Can we decide not to use the word unless the grabbed country had like 150% of the land or something?

2nd is for clans who retal untagged/unpacted at 125%+. Does your policy work in a reciprocal manner? As in if a member of an unpacted clan hits laf for 2500 acres and then laf retals for 5k. Two weeks later laf hits that country for 2500 acres. Is he entitled to 200% per laf's policy or is there a different policy regarding incoming hits? I know using laf in my example will probably cause people to respond to me directly rather than answering the question. You know (Derrick trying to start trouble etc etc). But for the record I am just actually curious and laf is the most public example. I know others do it so I'm curious of their opinion.

Thanks in advance for input.

Top feed is a term used by entitled earth players that wish to influence your game play with ethics and emotions after getting ass raped for land and resources by a player with a smaller country.

Just don't grab LaF seems like the most logical decision. I would ask Elders their thoughts but can't seem to find any.

iMag doesn't recognize topfeeds...so whatever they are....they might happen by us, but we don't care

Like I said I kinda figured that'd be the response but I'm actually asking the other way around. Like....if Laf hits you are you entitled to 200% retal for example...

And again. Just asking. I'm not in elders this set. I'm tagged ICN. Last I checked I played over 5k in rep acres to laf and we have a unap. No need for the aggression.

Essentially a topfeed is when you have a low NW but a high jet count and you manipulate land grabs in such a way that your opponent cannot hope to regain their land with a single retal.

Remember, it is IMPOSSIBLE to protect your land. If somebody wants to grab you they will grab you. The notion that you can carry enough turrets to prevent landgrabs is laughable and has repeatedly been proven false.

Its considered griefing because generally the people that are doing the topfeeds have zero interest in actually using the land to net gain. You run low and slow and snatch 4K acres off of a member of a rival tag knowing that you just yanked several million NW off of them - but you do not plan to gain any equivalent final NW for yourself.

If you don't like this definition, feel free to assemble an alliance of allies and fight to change it back to the dark ages before alliances formed to protect one another. Oh wait, you already tried that didn't you?

I remember the law being 80% jets as a topfeed and it being SOLELY Networth based, land had absolutely nothing to do with what defined a topfeed. This was even without ghost acres where you have to be fluffing retarded to run these netting countries with ridiculous NW:Acre ratio.

Rules are only made to be broken. Derrick, you are still a snowflake.

Drunck is clearly drunk archaic got it pretty correct tho when i lead SOF i seem to recall that we implemented a 125% rule of nw and land to decide if it was a topfeed or not

land:land pacts/policies pretty much always goes both ways

Interesting, Ivan. That's actually good imo. It would almost offer an incentive for your own members to hit bots only, which makes sense in terms of the reciprocal feelings about PVP grabs. The old golden rule so to speak. If you want no pvp grabs it's good tag maintenance to prevent your members from doing it. Laf is a pretty bad example atm because they'd probably kill a 200% untagged retal assuming the worst haha. Hard to blame em.

I get what archaic means by griefing for sure. That all makes sense. Though I would say that everyone probably tends to "use" the land and skill level could prevent them from doing it effectively. Doesn't mean their intention isn't to get land for the set. And some people don't net at all. They are grabbing for war and that's still an intention, even if not for the intention of winning the set. No matter what we do we all need land and and it makes sense to get it how you get it.

Even by archaic's definition....and druncks....and seemingly everyone here, a topfeed has something to do with NW ratio of the two countries. Cept Ivan who says networth OR land if I'm reading it correct. Imo, the term has become obsolete in the bot era. A ton of people now run defenseless bot farmers and those that don't have grossly exaggerated NWs comparatively. I'd go so far as to say a networth based topfeed no longer exists. A purely land based topfeed has become the only sensible way to use the term and is thus not a "topfeed" in any conventional use of the term.

I hereby proclaim the term "topfeed" a douchebag hipster term that people use to be cool. You know. Like "juxtaposition." It's obsolete and tired. Land retals are all that exist. Let's officially bury it. And if you choose to be a hipster imma make fun of you.

LaF don't care if it's topfeed or not. The main idea is that any landgrab on LaF will cause the offender to lose acres, which should incentivise him to stay the hell away.

We don't want to retal you, we don't retal people randomly. If you don't hit us you need not worry about our retal policies. So it is not something we shove down anyones throats. It's completely your choice if you want to be retalled by LaF or not.

This sums it up nicely. It's an attempt to claim that you are entitled to keep your land on your fat wasteful inefficient country, and be protected by all your buddies in your alliance for that attitude.

Fundamentally, it means some buys wearing large clan tags feel that they should NEVER have to face a landgrab, EVER and if they do, then they claim the right to hit you back until they recover every acre. Having more land is considered "top".

My 'fat wasteful inefficient' countries have won every other server last year(my first year of playing EE).

I think it's the bad players that are topfeeding who were protected by alliances retal policies in the days of old; what reason do I have for stopping at one retal if it was an individual server and I can and have reason to farm you?

lol holding a ton of military for no reason is the inefficient part, thats why you have clan mates same reason you have allies ingame

Derrick, If i dont remember wrong we just retal 200% l:l and that covers "topfeeds" also.
Before that it was "A topfeed is defined as a landgrab more than 400A in which the retaliation attack will obtain less than 80% of the lost land back" according to our policies page. Has nothing to with NW.

Below is some i have gathered from past pacts they are from 2016 or older:
Ill get some more when i get bored.

Evo:
-125% Land:Land on topfeeds(Defined as the defender having 125% of the attacker's land at the time of the hit)

TIE: (also Defined as the defender having 125% of the attacker's land at the time of the hit)
125% L:L for TF 80% L:L for regular
later
200% L:L on TF's alliance wide

SoF:
All grabs/attacks will be retaliated 300% land:land (not including ghost acres), DH will be retaliated 1:1 escalating in the case of multiple hits.
Later
- Any landgrabs, special attacks, spy ops and missile attacks will result in FAs deciding a course of action.

Rival:
80% L:L C:C, 200% L:L alliance wide last 3 weeks of reset

Omega:
- Countries may not grab countries with more than 150% their land. For LGs over 150% land of the attacker, retals are to be taken at a flat rate of 200% land:land.

MD:
All grabs will be retalled 200% Land : Land excluding ghost acres.

Imag:
- 200% land:land on all hits, 1:1 on defended. PS & SS will be the only acceptable forms of retalliation.

SoL:
During non war times, any landgrab is retalled 2:1, Defense Held 1:1

ICN:
150% L:L for all single hits

2. untagged countries dont have any rights, this is not the primary server. However, if you farm them as a member of LaF and they hit you back don't expect any help from LaF if you overdid it. As long as you retal fair nothing will be done. (sry galleri, i forgot to check the news before we killed your country).
If anyone notice a untagged country is hitting or dont look like a bot it will be marked insite as "not bot" and in some cases added as will retal, it's just not worth the gamble to hit a untagged player.
If you are in an alliance like Elders that we don't have a pact with. If we hit Elders you will retal according to your retal policy as we are the agressor. When we get hit by you we will retal according to our policy as you are the agressor.

Then we have the 3rd case, "landtrading" some times people like to LG each other instead of bots and they can do so if it has been agreed on beforehand. What was the reason this stopped being popular?

Unless they heard the word juxtapose in a fifties jazz song they listen to for "irony", my guess is that hipsters don't know the word.

Along with the point and definition of irony.

Your point does stand though, Derrick.

Yeah true. I will accept any ironic use of the term as funny.

Gains, point taken. An individual clan should have its own retal policy and retal along its lines even if they get retalled differently with tables turned. I get that.

Landtrading stopped being popular when they narfed the amount of buildings you get for an LG and started the bots. Since LGs destroy as much as the capture, the rebuilding costs on land trading became significant enough for people to stop doing it and the bots became a more effective way to get land without smashing a bunch of buildings. People just didn't like the idea of trades so the mechanics were changed to rid the game of it. Imo, the unfortunate thing is that even though it stopped trades, it also completely rid the game of the PVP LG and made people go bananas over single hits. It's a double edged sword really.

If the game was played as individual to individual, you'd never be able to get that fat and inefficient in the first place, buddy. Because someone like me would come along and take it from you round about half the game.

Gerdler would run circles around your country cerb :P

Good thing this is an alliance server, but really its the top dog that makes the rules. LAF and Elders clashed so much because of there different views about land and how the game should be played. We at elders lost the battle so LAF still makes the rules because they can enforce it.

You wanna change the rules? Grow your alliance and fight for it.

Yeah, I've heard that a million times now. On a level playing field, things work the way they're supposed to. :)

I could make grabs from my scores list all day long and not hit the same country twice, yet come away with double the land I started with. And best of all, it's immediately 100% efficient, so it builds defenses pretty quickly. The guys I hit just have to suck it up, they'll never get all of it back again, not if they had the rest of the game to prepare for their retal unmolested.

There's a clear juxtaposition in this thread.

Well said.

200% L:L .... smh...

And that there keeps people in your own clan and the other from hitting a pacted clan. If someone in iMag were to hit a pacted clan, then I am more happy to allow them to get the 200% L:L taken from them....

It can be whatever you want it to be or not to be but you have to be abke to enforce it. If you could easily tag kill LaF (good luck) then you can make it whatever you want!

this is epic. so many sets of chirping by the now defunct failed elders alliance, about laf choosing a historically standard 1a retal policy (and being able to defend it to boot).

derrick per usual - so many words but so little to say, hope you've been well

By all definitions stated in this thread my country that was killed was not built to top feed.

I matched Networth, which from my understanding is the best way to get max returns. Even if I didn't hit the countries who had excessive land compared to their networth I would have likely came out on top on every hit and still been labeled a top feeder.

That sad truth of this whole matter... People can opt to have appropriate defense to protect their lands while having a stable economy and massive land size. Top feeding is despised.... On the flip, bottom feeding is like the life blood in 1a,, constantly farming countries 1/4 your size, that have absolute no means to protect their assets. Doing this is all fine and dandy and any "New" player, as seldom as they come, will be gone as fast and they appeared. You Netters have this game all flipped around to suit your playing styles, not nessisarily a playing style that promotes game growth and actual excitement..

Play solo servers



*inside joke :)

All you self proclaimed geniuses fail to see that PvP landgrabbing USED to be the name of the game.

Derrrrrr "let's play this MMO text based browser game and throw a fluffing hissy fit when other people interact with us!"

Ffs HUGE ghost acres where 125% rule is negated ENTIRELY plus bots that are guaranteed to not hit back.

You morons ruined the game and the mods just let it go.

I mean, let's get some top ten stats up here when the player was was 10k+ vs now

~20 years ago http://wiki.earthempires.com/...100_Players_Oct_99_Game_A 82k acres would be alot even today.

if wants primary, etc records then needs to use waybackmachine.

Hush you!

The good old days!



This game is defiantly tailored for the Netters these days. They make it so small countries can't combat against larger countries.... Even the code it self has changed to protect the netter, like dumbing down SPAL. Dropping land during war use to be a thing, now it's pointless.

First off we have been over the defence problem. we have concluded it is impossible to defend against a dedicated jetter and thus that point is moot.

Now when it comes to new players, if they should venture into alliance or team of FFA without a tag then yes they will be farmed. but they will not be farmed if they join a tag, if they even have moderate skill in setting up their countries the bots will save them. back in the day without the bots they would be farmed for sure but that problem is gone by the bots you guys love to hate.

Your country in primary has to be a 4-wd rally car if you wanna win as there is gravel and bumps in the road. If you want to win in FFA and Alliance your country will have have to be an F1 car. I don't see why you can't just live with it. Other servers fit you better obviously.
It has been more or less like this for over 15 years in 1a/alliance and you are achieving nothing by fighting it.

Top 100 cut with 10000+ players - 68m

Top 100 cut off with 400 players including bots - 80-100m

well alot things have been tweaked past 20ish years and today we have more turns.

nov 98 winner had ~125m nw and year later winner had over 257m nw and year ago winner would been 16th year later (ofc 1998 didn't have tags yet).

primary:

2007: https://web.archive.org/...earth/primary/Oct07/a.htm (for lazies: winner had bit over 118m nw)

2004: https://web.archive.org/...earth/primary/Dec04/a.htm (lazy: ~155m nw)

alliance:

2007: https://web.archive.org/...arth/alliance/Nov07/a.htm (lazy: ~97m)

2004: https://web.archive.org/...arth/alliance/Nov04/a.htm (lazy: ~84m nw)

council (today's alliance):

2007: https://web.archive.org/...arth/userally/Dec07/a.htm (lazy: bit over 304m nw)

2006: https://web.archive.org/...arth/userally/Dec06/a.htm (lazy: ~158m nw)

fluffing hipster.

"First off we have been over the defence problem. we have concluded it is impossible to defend against a dedicated jetter and thus that point is moot."

That is outrageous to claim.... Sure dude said above 20m jet break won't stop an all jetted from hitting, but 20m turrets sure would look more menacing than a 300k turret country...... So it's far from moot.....



" Now when it comes to new players, if they should venture into alliance or team of FFA without a tag then yes they will be farmed. but they will not be farmed if they join a tag, if they even have moderate skill in setting up their countries the bots will save them. back in the day without the bots they would be farmed for sure but that problem is gone by the bots you guys love to hate. "

First off, I don't hate bots. I utilize them on almost every server they run. I think they are a good addition to the game. My issue is not with them. (If I even really have an issue....)

In regards to your statement about new players.... I disagree, large clans would hit any untagged country as long as they feel they are safe. Bots, no bots, untagged is farm land and treat as such. Can be as new as it gets or a seasoned vet, roll untagged get farmed. Like you said it's been this way 15 years......

Games are suppose to be challenging.... What's challenging about who can run the lowest defended country and get the most land the fastest and win... Seriously....

"Your country in primary has to be a 4-wd rally car if you wanna win as there is gravel and bumps in the road. If you want to win in FFA and Alliance your country will have have to be an F1 car. I don't see why you can't just live with it. Other servers fit you better obviously.
It has been more or less like this for over 15 years in 1a/alliance and you are achieving nothing by fighting it."

Funny car analogies.

I'll state for the record, I play every server and get along just fine in all of them. I have many friends in this game who would be happy to call my an ally. I have been in many 1a clans and am always asked to return.... So ya don't know where you feel like you know me well enough to say other servers suit me better...

Your right though, other than fluff n giggles and slight forum activity this fight is pointless, you tree hugging pussies have your game just where you want it. Just like the Russians at mars2025, who killed their overly war geared game version on the flip side of this issue....

I will end my rant with this.

Just because 90% of you think my opinions are wrong, does not make them wrong.... Not that 90% of you do, I have seen about a 60:40 ratio of those who disagree and agree with me. You dirty hippies are just lucky I acted during the time I did and didn't wait for end set to truly fluff your set.... Which was never the intention and I strongly feel that 90% of the countries I hit know this.

Like I said, next set I "will" adapt and have the best no defense country on the server. Just trying to start a VALID movement to change the way things are... Actually, that was not even my intention, errr, what was it again..... Oh ya!


Top rank Name (#) Result
1 HatchetUnderground (#246) 77,848
2 Ghost (#6) [TheOmega] 67,499
3 Hmpfs (#97) [SOLxmas] 59,300

Top rank Time Attacker Defender Type Result
1 2018-01-03 04:53 m0bzta (#296) [LoC] Castles Made of Sand (#5) [MONSTERS] PS 7,753A (+2,282A)
2 2018-01-02 00:45 HatchetUnderground (#246) [LoC] Ghost (#6) [TheOmega] PS 6,889A (+1,442A)
3 2018-01-05 09:06 Eat My Shorts (#288) [TMDR] Ghost (#6) [TheOmega] PS 6,811A (+1,994A)
4 2018-01-09 22:12 Mr Janne is back (#185) Hmpfs (#97) [SOLxmas] PS 6,563A (+1,994A)
5 2018-01-03 22:14 HatchetUnderground (#246) [LoC] This is the time (#22) [SOLxmas] PS 6,259A (+1,156A)
6 2018-01-10 21:31 Mr Janne is back (#185) Castles Made of Sand (#5) [MONSTERS] PS 5,735A (+2,384A)
7 2018-01-02 00:54 HatchetUnderground (#246) [LoC] santaclaus is real (#151) [TheOmega] PS 5,443A (+719A)
8 2018-01-02 00:49 HatchetUnderground (#246) [LoC] Mizar (#240) [TheOmega] PS 5,146A (+1,200A)
9 2017-12-30 22:38 Sentinel (#87) [LaF] ICN 20th Anniversary (#265) [ICN] PS 5,104A (+1,429A)
10 2018-01-10 21:31 Mr Janne is back (#185) Castles Made of Sand (#5) [MONSTERS] PS 4,776A (+2,153A)

I did have 8/10 of the largest grabs before I was killed.

I agree with gerdy on all points but one.

NASCAR is much better than F1.

Thought I told you to Hush!

I am so tempted to play this god forsaken server next set just so I can hang out in Cerb's 'score list' next set and instruct him on how to get shrekt by someone that knows how retal.

I am not sure what the fuss is - if you want to carry a ton of military and claw your way to the top one grab at a time - play Primary.

See, here's the thing, everything both sides are saying are functionally true but the Cerb/xninja camp are missing the big picture. I can comb through spy ops looking for targets, and I can camp the market for strat tech and cheap jets to fuel my machine. I can wage war and stonewall every other set to defend my rights to hammer your country. I can stay up all night hammering out complex FA deals and turn around and stab my allies in the back if a better deal comes along. Boys I did it, I was running 200 v 200 warchats 15 years ago, and it was fun - it's not anymore. I'm 46 now, my kids are teenagers, I have a job, I don't need this game to be another one.

We play this game and run all-X netters so we can stay connected to these forums so we can come on here and argue about fluff and 0.9999=1. Nobody wants this fluff to become another job, so quit being so damned difficult and just stay off my lawn.

^^ thats another very good point. We are all too old for this fluff. So stay off my lawn.

THIS IS TRULY GENIUS!!!!! A long long time ago, I and a fellow from The Monsters named "Cartoon", worked out what came to be called the "anti-Rock Manifesto", and it mentioned that the ability of alliances outside the game to be able to look at the entire list of countries, represented a threat to the game because there were so many players dedicated to never having to suffer a retal because they only attack the absolute weakest. Largely known as "bottom-feeding", and it s apparently a skill to be admired and emulated to get on with all the other people with no sack to actually hit somebody who might be able to retal the hit. Straight up, no risk takers.

Penis boobs that fluff.







That's the future.

Or

fluffting penis boobs.




Bow down

Y'all too soft.

Should be universal 1:1 with no pact/talks. Make the guys who wanna run no D and not have anything to do with anyone suffer. If you like and ally with a tag then you agree to leave each other alone/work out a pact by compromises on either side. Every suicider tag can be prevented if the work is done. God forbid any clan had any actual structure that requires people do more than click "bot list".

Especially with GA. Make Earth fun again.

Your entire statement is bias to your own personal situation as you so elegantly narrated., I understand others have the same personal issues and lives, your right it's not a game full of high schoolers.

If that is the truth, and this game is only populated for on going friendships, meaning the whole ranking system and reason to play the "actual game" is meaningless and no one really cares..... Why give a fluff about your lawn?

*my primary targets were grabbers not all X, though I am sure I hit a few.... I get your point, I don't have to agree that its right.

SKA!


Some people enjoy different aspects of the game. Its always been this way. I know some players can not grasp the idea of trying to win. You cant explain it to them. They only want to grief. Thats all it comes down to. Look what they write about teching a lesson or having to little defense. Why does that bother them? Why do they feel the need to force their playing style on others? Furthmore susan, i wouldnt be the leaat bit suprised if they were greefers.

I wasnt reaponding directly marshal, i just happened to look at the scores you posted and it made me smile :)

Man. This got some traction. Thoroughly enjoying the debate. I dare say there's some sense to a lot of statements here which, no offense, surprised me a bit. I expected, given my role this last year, to just get a bunch of grief about being an elder most sets.

Vic is the only one going that route and at this point I can't say I blame him. He is right about me saying essentially nothing though. I've tried to remain unbiased and merely open the can of worms with my nose plugged and a 30 foot stick. No reason to unleash my crazy. Its taking a couple months off. Hope all is well with you and yours as well.

Xninja - All I see on that top ten list is laf hitting ICN is still top ten. You've got work to do ;)

Zorp - I bet you wear skinny jeans with useless suspenders and have a stupid mustache you fluffing hipster. ;) <3

mazooka - I know you can't convince some people trying to war is fun either. War clans have gotten downright creative trying to find wars. Look at SOL for a rational example this set or elders for a brazen example recently, but its a dynamic that used to have a stronger application in eras of lots of large clans with big ideas. Essentially it left behind a bunch of folks who are too old and tired to lead and either liked killing or liked netting better. And those who showed any sort of skill on one side or the other are often closer because they've been talking over strats and whatnot for years. There's precious few members who desire doing both. I finished 4th on one server while i finished with 1300 defends on another. I actually enjoy it when I die, enjoy it when I finish well, enjoy it when I get topfed, enjoy it when I farm archaic when he joins the server etc. I ACTUALLY LIKE THE GAME. Its why I had no trouble paying laf 6k acres this set because fluff happens every set. Different stuff. And I always enjoy it. Sure. I enjoy trying to get first. But i also enjoy watching xninja get huge gains and seeing some horsetears on AT. And if he hit me I'd have a good laugh with him about it. Too few people on both sides of the debate have too often seemed to me like they're so focused on playing their game their way that they take away from/ignore what makes this community and this game unique, colorful and enjoyable.

I'd also like to point out that xninja was NEVER an Elder and has often played in LaF. I have no reason to point that out other than to show that its not 8 or 9 people who feel a certain way. I could name drop about 40 people right now who play this game and feel like xninja. And that's just the ones I know. That 90% figure is closer to 65% than you think.

And as my largest opinion I have on this, the toxicity of the we old get off my lawn defense should be fairly obvious. Some people, myself included, have full lives with a lot going on every day. I work 60 hour weeks and play 8 shows a month. Last month I drove to michigan from philly and back in 4 of the 6 days I was not working or gigging or both. When i get downtime, instead of sitting on my ass, opening a bag of cheetos and watching the walking dead, I happily choose earth with my pals for an hour+ any day and any time I get downtime. Like I said. I still enjoy this game.

To close, the 20m defense thing has an application. If I want to hit YOU specifically because I think you're an ass, I can. However, I wouldn't hit a 20m defense country AT RANDOM. Its worth noting that countries that run between 2-3m raw break on this server virtually never have this happen to them, but they also don't finish 1st due to expenses. If you choose to run defenseless it is and continues to be a bit of risk/reward. Up until this week I was top ten in land the entire set. He didn't hit me. Not once.