The politics of this game are fairly lame.

TheORKINMan

Member
1305

Mar 2nd 2011, 3:46:19

LaF/PDM situation just highlights part of the problem with Earth IMO.

Stop me if you've heard this before? RD does something that either directly or indirectly benefits some alliance, oftentimes LaF. LaF either dosn't address it or denies it outright and makes no further statements. The situation is nearly universally viewed as messed up and wrong and anyone with any lick of common sense realizes there was collusion between the two entities on some level.

PDM gets wrecked. JMHO but there's a decent chance this is the beginning of PDM folding from the game or at least going away for a while. Other major alliances generally view the situation as effed up and wrong but do nothing because they don't view it as any of their business. As long as it isn't THEM they won't make any waves over it or even call them out on it because they don't want it to be them next.

That in a nutshell is what is wrong with Earth. A severe lack of balls by anyone with an ability to be a game changer. Could be way off but just the way I see it reading over the other 90 threads on this subject.

Smarter than your average bear.

ZDH

Member
1098

Mar 2nd 2011, 3:51:05

That is called life.

Strong dominates the weak...

PDM was in a hostile land trade with LaF they knew what it would eventually boil down to. But they kept hitting. LaF has more members so that makes us a bully? Why f with us then?

-BigZ

Detmer

Member
4245

Mar 2nd 2011, 3:51:25

Paradigm isn't going anywhere. We are changing Earth one sand grain at a time...

Detmer

Member
4245

Mar 2nd 2011, 3:52:52

Originally posted by ZDH:

You farming us in a way to intentionally overwhelm retal capacity (when we thought you were allies, which hanlong was aware of on some level as I asked him for leniency from our pact terms earlier in the round) is absolutely bullying. You messed with us - not vice versa.

Klown

Member
967

Mar 2nd 2011, 3:53:37

Where is Pangaea to criticize LAF for doing something 'bad for the server'. He's quick to point the finger at other clans for doing so, where are you now?

TheORKINMan

Member
1305

Mar 2nd 2011, 3:54:01

ZDH: I'm not reffering to the landwar. I'm reffering to the obvious fact that RD is doing LaF's bidding and hitting PDM so that LaF can net in peace.

Smarter than your average bear.

ZDH

Member
1098

Mar 2nd 2011, 3:54:06

SOL did the same thing for NA except bragged about it on forums. That was a comnpletely fair 1v1...SOL was WAAAAAY bigger but no one gave a damn so why all the posts about LaF and RD?

-BigZ

TheORKINMan

Member
1305

Mar 2nd 2011, 3:55:08

ZDH: Not how I operate. And I get through life just fine. Usually I go out of my way to undercut and screw over people who act like fluffs.

Smarter than your average bear.

Klown

Member
967

Mar 2nd 2011, 3:55:35

ZDH: You're retarded for comparing the two.

TheORKINMan

Member
1305

Mar 2nd 2011, 3:55:56

Because this is supposed to be a new game free of the old RD BS that drove so many players away from the game and yet that SAME behavior is now showing up again?

Smarter than your average bear.

Lord Tarnava

Member
936

Mar 2nd 2011, 3:56:40

ZDH RD didn't come to our aid, infact they stole our land IMO. Still tons of love for Lime and Silver though ;-)

RD is not coming to our aid Orkin, you are just tremendously anti RD and anti LAF, you always have been

Klown: Bad for the server? I doubt PDM is going anywhere, and LAF and PDM were both gaining land exchanging hits and making things, I daresay, interesting.

Lord Tarnava

Member
936

Mar 2nd 2011, 3:58:21

old RD bs? You realize they now don't cheat or have any numbers advantage, they are smacking PDM for issues they had last set..

Orkin.. dude.. come on.

TheORKINMan

Member
1305

Mar 2nd 2011, 3:59:07

I'm not anti-LaF at all. I could not care less about LaF's landwar with PDM. If I did I'd actually bother to play in PDM again.

RD is definitely coming to your aid Lord Tarnava. That's exactly the kind of completely disingenuous denial I'm talking about. Oh noes you wont get your land you will easily make up elsewhere. The more important thing is you won't be pestered by PDM for the rest of the reset. Kinda funny how it just worked out that way. You're catching flak because you're denying the OBVIOUS.

Smarter than your average bear.

Klown

Member
967

Mar 2nd 2011, 3:59:39

BS. RD made it to you could farm the hell out of them without threat of retaliation, hence why LAF's avg land is massive. It would have led to war with PDM, so you had to bring in your cheating friends to help you screw PDM.

ZDH

Member
1098

Mar 2nd 2011, 3:59:44

Detmer I seen the news you guys retalled with missles and stuff...When I played I would have started kill runs right then. Of course that was along time ago but still thats just stupid.

-BigZ

Chewi

Member
867

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:00:52

RD has killed plenty that were just land sources.

hanlong

Member
2211

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:01:25

i think you have a point, except for one hole.

do we control the actions of PDM members too? let's take this conspiracy theory to test. why would PDM be active harmful spy opping and nuking us to escalate the retals also? is this some sort of 3 way plan between RD PDM and LaF to give mass entertainment to the masses?

*high fives detmer and mr. whatever color is the head now*

they got us now!

Don Hanlong
Don of La Famiglia

Detmer

Member
4245

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:01:47

Originally posted by ZDH:

Detmer I seen the news you guys retalled with missles and stuff...When I played I would have started kill runs right then. Of course that was along time ago but still thats just stupid.

We did retal with missiles. I agree with you - starting a kill run over missile retals back then would have been stupid.

Fine, I do know what you actually intended to say - why is that stupid? Because you feel entitled to farming without repercussions? Sorry - not a good reason in my book.

TheORKINMan

Member
1305

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:03:05

And here's a shock. The LaF person who is reaping the benefits of RD's actions and denying they had any involvement with RD, is now defending RD! *shock*

If LaF had any sort of moral fiber they'd stop taking retals on PDM. I guarentee that hasn't happened without even looking at the news. They are all about getting all of their land back and then some while RD hits away and they have no fear of retribution from PDM.

Smarter than your average bear.

Lord Tarnava

Member
936

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:03:24

Orkin, PDM would not have warred LAF. They aren't even fighting back against RD it seems

PDM seems to be run by Detmer right now, you think Detmer would run a freaking war chat? unbfluffinglikely.

hanlong

Member
2211

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:03:58

i just wish you weren't busy at that time honestly detmer when i was in a deal making frenzy with sanct/icn/wof/etc.

i would've probably let you farm some acres back off one of our leaders (so you won't feel the whole "farming without repercussions" effect and we'd sign a uNAP and everything will be happy times"

except now we got idiots giving me the latest tip on who actually killed John F Kennedy

Don Hanlong
Don of La Famiglia

Detmer

Member
4245

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:04:12

Originally posted by hanlong:

We disagreed with your RoRs. The question is why did you keep retalling them... the question is why did you guys instigate farming us, stopping replying to my messages and then hold a mass farming of us shortly before RD declared war on us (an event which you guys knew was about to occur)

hanlong

Member
2211

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:05:23

Originally posted by Detmer:

Originally posted by hanlong:

because you killed a LaF country trying to retal harmful spy ops. i already apologized that it was the wrong PDM country that was retaled.

the original "instigation of farming" had nothing to do with PDM specifically. LaF applied it to more than one alliance as i have told you many times, and i was pulling in 80 hour weeks because of our servers not being stable (so i had to program out emergency hotfixes).

was not fun. i tried to work through all the alliances, INCLUDING yours detmer.

remember this message?

From: hanlong
To: Detmer
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Are we friends?
Date: Feb 17th, 22:24
Message Body:
i set you to DNH right now, but you want to sign a pact so we can make this official?

you could've said yes to that, told me what you wanted (like sanct wanted their acres back so we let them farm a LaF leader's country) and we'd be all happy and done.

Edited By: hanlong on Mar 2nd 2011, 4:08:08
See Original Post

Don Hanlong
Don of La Famiglia

TheORKINMan

Member
1305

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:05:28

hanlong: I've been in leadership roles in this game before too. Not exactly my first rodeo. I abso-god-damn-lutely believe this situation was fully anticipated by those in LaF once they saw PDM's retal policy which I'm sure LaF does not approve of at all (and neither does RD). This scenario could be setup over ICQ between a LaF and RD head in about 5 minutes. It's not a grand conspiracy. It's two fluffheads acting like it.

Smarter than your average bear.

Detmer

Member
4245

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:06:09

Originally posted by hanlong:

I asked exactly for that and you stopped replying to me. Two days later is when LT got five nukes. *YOU* are the one who stopped communicating. Stop trying to propagate the lie that I am the one who did not communicate.

TheORKINMan

Member
1305

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:07:24

and btw hanlong YOU can set this straight right now. You WON'T but you can. By making a public statement that LaF disapproves of RD's actions and will place PDM on temporary uNAP while RD is warring them.

Smarter than your average bear.

Detmer

Member
4245

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:07:50

Originally posted by hanlong:

Originally posted by Detmer:

Originally posted by hanlong:

because you killed a LaF country trying to retal harmful spy ops. i already apologized that it was the wrong PDM country that was retaled.

You were going on earlier today about how easy it is to figure out who did spy ops - why didn't you do that before "making the mistake". (which works on multiple levels since your country was the one killed)

Lord Tarnava

Member
936

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:08:35

orkin you are not responding to the fact that we KNEW PDM was without any organization or leadership. Detmer was in charge.

There was no war to be had between LAF and PDM

LaF could farm PDM for days, PDM would AB retal, missile retal, harmful op etc

We didn't need RD to be involved, they had their own issues with PDM which I am not angry about, just stops our fun prematurely.

Detmer

Member
4245

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:09:14

Originally posted by Lord Tarnava:

Orkin, PDM would not have warred LAF. They aren't even fighting back against RD it seems

PDM seems to be run by Detmer right now, you think Detmer would run a freaking war chat? unbfluffinglikely.

Ummm... on what basis do you think I wouldn't run a war chat?

hanlong

Member
2211

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:09:19

no you got that wrong.

i set you to DNH and asked you for a pact on 2/17. you were the one that ignored me and sent 5 nukes at LT.

and i already explained in the other thread that it was my mistake. i retaled 594 and hours later i get harmful spy ops. i just assumed it was RoR, because i haven't touched any other country for days.

it was an honest mistake, and i apologized already. i retroactively did the news check now and i realized i got the wrong country... but why would that matter anyways? it was still a PDM one

Edited By: hanlong on Mar 2nd 2011, 4:11:29
See Original Post

Don Hanlong
Don of La Famiglia

Lord Tarnava

Member
936

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:09:56

the way you advocate and go about playing this game.

I very much doubt you would run a full scale war against LAF

TheORKINMan

Member
1305

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:11:18

Originally posted by Lord Tarnava:

WTF are you talking about? How am I not taking it into accout? It is the CRUX of my arguement. LaF sees their skirmish with PDM as a waste of time and resources and a detriment to netting due to spyops/ABs etc... so RD cleans up for them while they farm. That's what I've been saying the whole time...

Smarter than your average bear.

Detmer

Member
4245

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:11:29

Originally posted by Lord Tarnava:

the way you advocate and go about playing this game.

I very much doubt you would run a full scale war against LAF

That has nothing to do with me running warchats if we were at war.

I like how now that everyone has seen how orchestrated this was you are trying to attack my leadership abilities. I actually seem to have handled this situation really well*

*and by that I mean it was handled really well by the PDM leadership collectively while I am in charge.

TheORKINMan

Member
1305

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:11:33

Originally posted by hanlong:

Exactly :)

Smarter than your average bear.

Lord Tarnava

Member
936

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:13:03

Originally posted by TheORKINMan:

Originally posted by Lord Tarnava:

LAF was gaining our average land at a rapid pace retalling PDM, the ABs and missiles and spy ops were a fair trade off IMO for what we were gaining. Your argument is invalid

TheORKINMan

Member
1305

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:14:20

No it's not. You're just being purposefully obtuse, which LaF has made an art form over the years, or have reading comprehension problems.

Smarter than your average bear.

Lord Tarnava

Member
936

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:16:07

You say that RD came to clean up0 LAFs mess

I say LAF didn't have a mess to clean up, as we were benefiting from the situation immensely.

Detmer

Member
4245

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:17:26

Originally posted by hanlong:

Originally posted by Detmer:

Originally posted by Pang:

*facepalm*

nothing proves that you didn't do all your FA on AT like doing all ongoing FA on AT :p

Exactly, and that is why I won't do it in private next time...I thought hanlong was going to be reasonably... he allegedly was with Sanct... I am not sure why it took him more than two days

I contact hanlong with our stance

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: Detmer
To: hanlong
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Are we friends?
Date: Feb 18th, 01:51
Message Body:
How are they undermining your agenda if you had us listed as free for grabs? We still have you listed as friends but honestly I don't know if we want to formalize things if the result is just you guys doing your early techer grab and jump and getting away with it, again. If our guys can get our land back, or if you aren't going to be unhappy if we destroy the land, then we'd be happy to formalize an equitable relationship. We're just tired of being screwed over by this very same tactic. Had we been aware we had to watch out for you guys we could have prepared for it like we used to.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

hanlong replies ignoring what we actually want and trying to some how make me think that two grabs against them - one of which I made FA contact about, somehow implies that we didn't have them in the embassy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: hanlong
To: Detmer
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Are we friends?
Date: Feb 18th, 02:11
Message Body:
then the answer is a long term pact no?

not a one or two reset pact. i'm assuming you listed us free for grabs because we received two unprovoked too. i'm pretty sure it was not set on ur side also, unless they were undermining you also ;P

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So I reply

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: Detmer
To: hanlong
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Are we friends?
Date: Feb 18th, 02:17
Message Body:
We grabbed you twice and the second time I contacted you asking for only L:L (as our pact terms had been higher) since it the guy posted acknowledging he made a mistake. That is very unlike the mass farming that you guys have put on us. If we even up here then I am happy to sign a long-term auto-renew pact that exists until actively terminated.

The first person has been grabbing tons of allies and I would say yes, is undermining what I am doing but since it is only one person it is easy to leave him out to dry for everyone.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Then 15 hours later one of my guys fires a nuke. (hanlong never mentions it)

To save time here is a string of replied messages where hanlong allegedly sets us to DNH but we keep getting hit... one of our guys violates the DNH and I offer for them to farm and kill him as they wish (aka I bent over).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: Detmer
To: hanlong
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Are we friends?
Date: Feb 19th, 05:13
Message Body:
You are right - two of them (#449) are retals. You are of course welcome to retal and as noted before #449 has been violating pacts all round. If he grabs you again you're welcome to farm and kill him. As for the other hits though...

From: hanlong
To: Detmer
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Are we friends?
Date: Feb 17th, 22:24
Message Body:
i set you to DNH right now, but you want to sign a pact so we can make this official?

Feb 18/11 2:27:16 AM SS old golden age (#598) (LaF) If U Cant Beat Em Tank Em (#241) (Paradigm) 320 A (+355 A)
Feb 18/11 2:20:48 AM PS ashes to ashes (#443) (LaF) T34 FTW (#359) (Paradigm) 453 A (+480 A)

----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
huh? i set you on DNH on the 18th game time according to the boxcar records.

Feb 18/11 10:15:18 AM PS The untouchables (#610) (LaF) Dont tanks me (#449) (Paradigm) 1215 A (+452 A)

is the only hit i see after that time, and that's a retal.

can you explain to me what hits you are talking about? i hope we are still able to retal ;)

----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
I appreciate that you are being reasonable however your members have hit us four times since we were set to DNH. Unless your next message assures me that everything will be repaid to us then we're just going to take it as you guys as a whole don't actually give a fluff about us and we'll just go back to the status quo of a year and a half ago... I don't mean to give you an ultimatum but honestly we're getting raped and I have no choice but to put my foot down for my members.

----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
i set you to DNH right now, but you want to sign a pact so we can make this official?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

After I offered up our guy for farming hanlong stopped contacting me... on the 20th my guys started firing nukes. One of their guys took it to such a level that we had to kill him (#36). Everyone other than LaF seems to think no contact was necessary to kill that country.

You guys need to sort this out and trading barbs back and forth via the forums isn't going to get that done for either alliance...

Actually, it won't get it done for LaF who aspire to netgain but instead will have to deal with constant fluff from us round after round.

but in all honesty, even if it's not your intention, I'm seeing these threads and seeing PDM spinning just as much if not more than LaF is. Neither alliance has the high ground on that front :p

There is no spin from PDM. You saying there is spin does not make it true.

TheORKINMan

Member
1305

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:18:04

You are just arguing semantics at this point. RD came to make it so you could gain land without dealing with the spyops/missiles/ABs and anything else PDM might do. Whether you want to call it a mess or whatever is irrelevent to me.

Smarter than your average bear.

hanlong

Member
2211

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:18:05

stop polluting the thread orkin, i'm addressing detmer here.

i'm sifting through all the messages that went back and forth detmer right now. i'll post them right after this for the proof of what went on.

the general summary is i set PDM to DNH on 2/17, offered a pact, he said no on 2/18 because he hates how we always hit them then get DNH without repercussions, i told him on 2/18 for a long term pact so it won't happen again, then we got topfed by PDM a bunch on 2/18 so i asked him if he wanted the DNH or not since they were topfeeding us, then they nuked us, then detmer told me they set us to will retal. then the mass topfeeds/spy ops started coming and it started to escalate.

tell me how the fluff did i coordinate this exactly again TheORKINMan?

i offered DNH and pact like 3 times, he could've accepted it all 3 times. if i had some evil plan to farm the snot out of pdm without repercussions why would i ever offer a pact to pdm? everytime it escalated was because not only did he say no to me PDM members either 1) topfed us 2) nuked us 3) harmful spy op us. like i said 100 times, PDM started the first 2 hits, we did the next bunch of hits, then after that i asked for peace, it was never accepted but escalated BY PDM at that point until the farm incident.

Edited By: hanlong on Mar 2nd 2011, 4:20:23
See Original Post

Don Hanlong
Don of La Famiglia

TheORKINMan

Member
1305

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:21:08

It's MY damn thread and I'll pollute it if I want to. You forgot the part where you or someone else asked RD to come deal with this situation so you guys can move on to do whatever. Funny how you stopped right before RD hitting PDM in your timeline. I am NOT reffering at all to who was right/wrong in your landwar skirmish with PDM. Who was right/wrong there is completely irrelevent to the point of the thread.

Like I said. Publicly condemn RD hitting a maimed alliance in the middle of a current conflict or claim credit for asking them to do so.

Smarter than your average bear.

Detmer

Member
4245

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:21:38

Originally posted by hanlong:

i'm sifting through all the messages that went back and forth detmer right now. i'll post them right after this for the proof of what went on.

Done.

i offered DNH and pact like 3 times, he could've accepted it all 3 times. if i had some evil plan to farm the snot out of pdm without repercussions why would i ever offer a pact to pdm?

We just raped you... would you like a DNH? That is exactly the problem in the first place and the reason we would not accept it. That is your SOP - to farm us and then ask for a DNH to get off scott free.

locket

Member
6176

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:26:38

Orkin, I dont know all the info but I do know that RD planned to war all set. And if they have been pacted to everyone else then it was obviously their intent. I only knew this by looking at their countries but that did make it obvious enough. I thought they might hit PDM. There werent many choices

hanlong

Member
2211

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:28:13

orkin: whatever you said is fine after i sort it out with detmer. i don't need to condemn RD for making us miss out on more acres until i can get through to detmer first ;)

detmer: that's the problem you took experiences with old LaF leaders as indication on what I WOULD do to you. i know sanct felt that boat too and they started off with some strong words to me. after they realized i wasn't the same as any of the old LaF leaders, they quickly worked towards a resolution with me. and that's just one example, i worked out uNAP deals with 4 alliances that week while pulling in a 80 hour work shift. i apologize for not being as proactive about my intentions to clear up any misunderstanding or ill concieved notions about LaF but you have to understand from my position that i was fluffing burnt out that week.

you could've given me what you thought was going to be fair to both sides (land reps, fa reps) and signed a pact. but you apparently chose to think i was the same as the previous LaF leaders who you dealt with. i apologize on their behalf if you thought that way, but i still don't think it's fair for you to treat me like that because i'm a different person and i operate differently...

Don Hanlong
Don of La Famiglia

Lord Tarnava

Member
936

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:30:35

for anyone who says this is the same old LAF leadership.. I don't think anyone in our current leadership has been in leadership, in ANY alliance for atleast 6 years?

Havoc

Member
4039

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:33:06

Eh, not really related, but I'm just mad that as an Omegan I now have to netgain against a bunch of 40k acre LaFers who got all their land from PDM, and because of RD didnt take much if any flak back..

Havoc
Unholy Monks | The Omega

hanlong

Member
2211

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:33:13

you know, i should just quit and retire from this game. maybe you guys prefer to deal with the previous LaF leaders who don't even bother to communicate and address concerns.

i feel like i'm just wasting my time even attempting to

1) offer DNH and pacts that would be good for all sides
2) try to get to the bottom of the situations based on the facts

i don't want to play a game where all the community is capable of doing is flinging baseless insults and throw around conspiracy theories just to piss people off.

f this, i quit back in 2005 because this server was getting lame, and i came back and its lamer than ever. at least i thought the community and devs are close knit so i figured i can suggest some ideas to make this game more enticing again, but instead we still get flaming idiots and no one really listening to my concerns.

i have better uses of my time. i was asked as a favor to help lead LaF again, i didn't want to do this even. i should've deleted and ignored that email by LaFfers asking me to come back to fill gaps in leadership. did it for 6 years already, no need to agitate myself again when this isn't even what i want.

cya

Edited By: hanlong on Mar 2nd 2011, 4:35:39
See Original Post

Don Hanlong
Don of La Famiglia

Lord Tarnava

Member
936

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:35:08

if hanlong quits, chances are we will make SS rejoin LAF and be our FA or I will have to take that roll. DO you morons REALLY want that?

TheORKINMan

Member
1305

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:35:18

Maybe Ronnie and PapaSmurf will come be leaders in LaF again. At least we wouldn't have to put up with the facade.

Smarter than your average bear.

TheORKINMan

Member
1305

Mar 2nd 2011, 4:37:23

Originally posted by locket:

That means under the most innocuous scenario LaF is taking advantage of a situation to fatten up on an alliance they KNEW would soon be decimated.

Smarter than your average bear.