http://www.google.com/...Om_nSENdRwQ?docId=6975755

No more refugees and family reunification. Bring in people who will actually improve the country and contribute.

we could do HIV tests at the borders?

Incorrect. Who else is going to provide cheaper labor to clean rich, conservatives homes and be their nannies.

why the hell did my reply get deleted? Can someone get off my fluff?

you did not make a reply here.... there are no deleted messages on this thread.

you know he was from the states...

doesn't make any sense to me.
they consented to have unsafe sex, didn't they?
thought lies were normal during the mating dance.

Dibs: At least in Sweden it is illegal to have unprotected sex with a healthy person if you know you have HIV. It is on a level with aggravated assault in the books.

As for the original issue of the thread. We could definitely use a shift in policy in Sweden as well. But here you are deemed evil and racist if you even mention any problems with immigration... It's just a very simple fact, some cultures don't mix very well, and we should deal with that. There are many ways to deal with it, and I know some are probably as bad or worse than the problems they cause, but I don't think anything could be worse than ignoring the problems and hoping they go away with a more generous immigration/asylum policy. :P

What does this have to do with immigration? There have been tuns of cases where this has happened. There was a guy in New york that did this in mid 90s and spread virus to something like 12 women. This is one of the first cases to levy murder charges. It isn't an immigrant specific problem. Certain cultures aren't as educated to risk of unprotected sex but that requires education. If you went back 20-30 years the culture as a whole in US or Canada was not properly educated on HIV.

This is off wiki for criminal HIV cases:

Nadja Benaissa (born 1982) German female pop singer who was convicted of knowingly infecting a number of her lovers.
Henry Cuerrier Canadian man convicted of aggravated assault for knowingly exposing two women to HIV.
Carl Leone (born c.1976) Canadian businessman found guilty of 15 counts of aggravated sexual assault for not informing his partners of his HIV status.
Andre Chad Parenzee (born c. 1971) South African-born man convicted in Australia on three counts of endangering human life through having unprotected sex without informing his partners of his HIV status.
Trevis Smith (born 1976) American player of Canadian football with the Saskatchewan Roughriders, jailed for aggravated sexual assault.
Nushawn Williams (born 1976) American who infected 13 women with HIV; imprisoned for reckless endangerment and statutory rape.

This is cases in Canada that involved HIV Virus:

1991: Charles Ssenyonga is charged with criminal negligence causing bodily harm, after allegedly infecting 17 women. He is the first Canadian criminally charged for passing on AIDS. He died before a verdict was reached.

1991: Ray Mercer, 28, of Newfoundland is also charged with criminal negligence causing bodily harm for exposing a number of women to the virus through unprotected sex. He was convicted and sentenced to 11 years in jail.

1995: Henry Cuerrier exposed two women to the virus through unprotected sex and was charged, but a British Columbia judge acquitted him on the grounds that the women consented to sex, even though he had lied about his HIV status to one partner, and hid it from the other. It was overturned by the Supreme Court in a 1998 decision that ruled that failing to inform a partner of one's HIV status was effectively fraudulent and voided the consent and as such constituted the crime of aggravated sexual assault.

2005: Patrick Green, 29, of St. Catharines is charged with aggravated sexual assault for failing to tell his sexual partner of his HIV status.

2005: Canadian soldier Jennifer Murphy, 31, pleaded guilty to aggravated sexual assault for incidents of unprotected sex with two partners she hadn't told about her HIV infection. Neither victim has developed the disease. Murphy was sentenced to one year of house arrest and three years probation.

2007: Robin Lee St. Clair, 26 of Hamilton, is charged with sexual assault for exposing a Toronto man to the virus by not disclosing the fact that she had been infected by HIV, the investigation expands to include men in Brantford and Hamilton as well. Four years earlier, sparked by a tip that came in the wake of publicity surrounding Aziga's arrest, Hamilton police identified five men the single mother admitted to having unprotected sex with. None would co-operate with police and so no charges were laid.

2007: Trevis Smith, former Saskatchewan Roughrider, is sentenced to 5 1/2 years in jail for knowingly exposing two sexual partners to HIV.

it still doesn't make any sense.
what are they going to do?
jail everybody that has been infected with HIV?
did he consent to having sex with somebody who was HIV positive before he got infected?
is the state going to press criminal charges against the person who infected him?

full disclosure!

If you knowingly have HIV and don't tell a partner prior to intercourse you're an awful human being and deserve worse punishment than someone who quickly killed by a violent assault. A victim's failure to use a condom is no excuse and surely if a female (or male) is informed the potential partner is infected he/she wouldn't be touching that even if the male was wearing 10 condoms.

I'd like to hear your thoughts relating this to immigration though. Are you suggesting any HIV positive person should not be given the right to immigrate?

I disagree, once you contract the disease you should embrace it. Your goal should be to infect as many people as possible.

I think the best quote from this thread is by Erian. Some "cultures" don't mix very well.

What kind of absurdity is that?

Anybody can contract HIV and pass it onto somebody else knowingly. Their race or nationality has NOTHING to do with it.

By having unprotected sex with somebody you're acknowledging the fact that you may contract something untoward. What the hell were these women doing having unprotected sex? I suggest you educate the people in your country.

Also, Erian you are not deemed racist but you are racist for comments like the ones you made above.

How are his comments racist?

Culture != race, he made no comments about race.

*edit, that is directed at the posts above about Erian*

The title of this thread and the article you posted don't really make sense together as you posted one case for a guy that happened to be an immigrant. It just makes you sound ignorant.

Cultures with problems mixing are a reality. So there is nothing racist about the statement made by Erian. Like he said there are a bunch of ways to deal with it and it should be factored into any good immigration policy.

I would say that looking at that case and blaming it on immigrants would be foolish unless you actually have statistics that an immigrant population is responsible for the spread of the disease or are statistically more susceptible to the virus. A simple google search found several "Native" Canadians have been convicted for similar reasons.

HIV issue is complicated and can be affected by a variety of factors including education, religion, Drug use, sexual orientation, Socioeconomic status and how sexuality is treated.

In case your interested in actual stats on the subject there is some basic stuff for Canada: http://www.avert.org/canada-aids.htm

The idiot is also playing race card to try and get out of his prison sentence but that is a whole other issue.

Having unprotected sex is choosing to put yourself at risk so I wouldn't say someone who contracts the disease is without responsibility. But like Speaker said being ignorant of the disease and transmitting it is one thing. Having the knowledge that you have it and not informing your partners is on a whole other level.

This is probably an over simplified analogy. It is like you getting into a car with someone else driving. By doing so you put yourself at risk that something may happen. If they get into an accident it happens. If that person is knowingly drunk and doesn't tell you before you enter the vehicle they put you in greater danger.

I didn't blame it on immigrants, I blamed it on current immigration policy. You are the one being ignorant. Ignorant to the difference.

How it relates is obvious if you know anything about current Canadian immigration policy. The implication is that this is an individual that never should have been accepted hear via immigration, regardless of whether he was already infected before he arrived. The infection is the final result of the same variables that should have made him a ineligible candidate to begin with. This is because the reason why he is an example of poor immigration policy is likely the same reason why he ended up contracting HIV to begin with, and the foreshadowing of those reasons is evident in the article I posted.

So in conclusion: My point required a digging a bit below the surface on the issue...

LT actually got very close my point (more or less) in the very first response in the thread

"A resident of Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, Aziga was a former staffer at the Ontario Ministry of the Attorney General." The guy was working and contributing to the country. The article doesn't say anything about why he was granted residency or whether he was a refugee.

Looking online now he was a refugee but i figure i guy that this guy would have gotten through as a normal immigrant. I don't know much about the Canadian policy to be honest. I am more familiar with the US system and it is a complete mess.

and yes i was just pwned by H4.

pies all

Canadian immigration problems-- aka an oxymoron.

If you're going to make a post titled "Why we need a radical shift in immig policy" and simply post a link beneath, what exactly do you think people are going to infer from that?

Is it a scientific fact that certain cultures don't mix well together? Or a predisposed idea that culminates from isolated incidences like the one above, whereby you classify certain types of people as one and the same just because of the actions of an isolated minority? Unless you're going to word your reasoning in a more appropriate manner then of course people will see segments of your argument as racist. Is it really that difficult to understand that comments like the above are where racial and social tensions begin? The word culture has various meanings and connotations.

What if I said the Jewish culture and society don't mix very well with the Germanic culture?

You have hindsight. Use it.

Anon this isn't a black and white issue.

Certain cultural groups are more/less likely to get along with each other based on customs, beliefs etc.

THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT EVERYONE FROM A CULTURAL GROUP ACTS THE SAME AND THAT WE ARE ON COURSE TO EMULATE THE THIRD REICH.

We cannot deny stereotypes, they exist for a reason, HOWEVER that being said each individual should be judged and assessed based on their own personal merit.

Our current refugee acceptance and family reunification policies create ghettos where groups segregate themselves by choice. A large percentage do not work, live off of family and government funding, and don't even bother to learn English. The liberal philosophy was that they would create future tax payers, however due to the culture many of these immigrants have been raised in, this is not the case. Many are turning to crime, dropping out of school, etc as they haven't learned the value of hard work.

If you inferred racism out of this Anoniem then that makes you racist, not me. Because you see, you looked at the fact that the man was black and automatically inferred that I was referring to his race. You put the subject of race differential on the table, you made a distinction about the man's race and then inferred that I was doing the same. The truth is that I wasn't talking about his race at all because his race didn't even cross my mind while considering the subject.

The race of the person didn't cross my mind because I am truly not racist, it not only crossed your mind, but you thought it was the main point of the entire issue. Please learn not to identify people by their race, it would be a good first step to quelling your blatant racism.

I also wasn't in any way considering culture. Once again that is something other people projected on the thread and then had the gull to get upset at me for "raising" (because they can't manage to look at things other than through those lenses).

I make almost all of my policy arguments on these boards on an economic basis. People who engage in these thread (which are always Canadian politics related) are aware of this. This particular subject is also one that has been raised (by me) and discussed more than once in the very recent past. It isn't my fault you stepped into a thread that had context, and that you didn't grasp that context before you started referring to me as a racist (or what you more accurately should have suggested, culturally discriminatory).

huh? thought anoniem implied that Erian was a racist because Erian feels that his community can't talk about immigration issues without race being brought up.

the demographics of HIV infections seems to be a bit racist, btw. it probably has more to do with sexual habits/customs than inferior genetics.

you're talking like immigration needs to be changed, yet the border between Canada and the US is like wide open. it takes like what 5-10 minutes to get infected with HIV? how the heck can a change in immigration policy do anything to stop it's spread?

I would presume that H4 feels as I do that the issue isn't the spread of HIV it's who we allow in the country, and reforming the system in an effort to bring over those most likely to contribute.

This is just a single case, which I would presume H4 used as an example as it is currently in the news

i dunno. you can get kinda stuck on the "Bring in people who will actually improve the country and contribute." position, because people can't pull their own weight all their lives. and what are you going to do to people who can no longer contribute due to age, or people who weren't born with the ability to contribute as well as other people. where do you the draw the line? there are Canadian born actors coming here to the US and making millions, everybody else in Canada must be a bunch of slackers compared to them...

That's terrible logic. Also you looked at my statement in black and white. You're a failure of a debator.

I stated those most likely to contribute. We have a doctor shortage amongst other professions as well. It is far more prudent to bring in applicants from overseas who are doctors in their respective nations, or who possess skills we have a demand for. Use the funds we would have been simply giving out in refugee welfare, to help get their English up to snuff and pass a test to become certified in Canada. Will they definitely pull their own weight? No, but the odds are far greater.

based on the longevity of Canadians, the doctors are probably needed more where they are at than in Canada.

i'm not a debator, I Am The Budweiser Troll King.

http://www.indexmundi.com/canada/median_age.html

so, the median age in Uganda is 15 and the median age in Canada is 40. that's a 25 year differential(spelling and grammar?), so instead of educating and helping a people who are essentially 25 years younger than y'all, you're going to just throw them in jail for their lack of wisdom, or deny them entry to the country.

ttt.
one of the reasons that i don't like edits.
i wanna be on top, or do i? meh, i probably don't technically care.

H4: Before you get on your high horse - I believe you should realise that I aimed a question at you and then moved back on to my previous comments regarding Erian. However, seeing as you crave my attention allow me to reply. You're suggesting that this policy debate is centred around economics? If that is true, then why did you simply post a link with an ambiguous thread title?

Lord Tarnava: If you're going to use subjective phrases such 'a large percentage' then you should understand that 'large' is not a real quantity. By using the word 'large' you're implying that there would be an acceptable percentage of immigrants that are free: "not [to] work, live off of family and government funding, and [not] even bother to learn English."

Perhaps, we should also take a look at the percentage of "indigenous" Canadians out of work and living off the state.

--
This isn't a debate. This is a joke.

You assume I don't take issue with our native population.

They need to become aware of the age old truth: there ain't no such thing as a free lunch

The natives need to be stripped of all extra privileges, status's, and reserve lands and become subject to the same laws and rights ad every other citizen. Until this occurs they will continue to live in cesspools full of unemployment and crime, falling victim to a culture based on social assistance and drug abuse

you do realize that they didn't have any problems with living their life style for thousands of years before the bloody imperials showed up, don't you?

Does it matter? We're not leaving. Stop regurgitating infantile leftist bullfluff, which does nothing but attempt to incite the feeling of guilt in people for actions our ancestors(possibly) committed. It lacks context, and it lacks solution. Stripping the natives of all additional privileges would allow them to finally integrate and begin to raise their quality of life. It will take several generations, and it will infuriate many at the get go, but it needs to be done

i ain't asking you to leave. quit pretending that your way is the right way, it's just what you were taught from birth.

Don't act like the natives were peaceful, they were constantly killing eachother off

does a polar bear eat baby seals?
people aren't exactly peaceful, no matter what race they come from.

they obviously weren't killing each other off often enough to leave you nothing to deal with.