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qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
9863

Aug 4th 2010, 5:05:41

Hey All;

This is a minor government update, targeting specifically Dictatorships; this was something we had planned during the last round of government updates, but hadn't fully vetted it out; now that we've mulled over it a while, here it is:

Dictatorship:

New Bonus: +32% Building Capture;



(This means that, rather than capturing 48% of buildings as is normal, they capture 80% of buildings; the percentage refers to buildings/land_captured)

This is intended to do a number of things, including make Dict more viable for wargaining or netgaining, specifically by providing an instrument to mitigate the BPT penalty. It also is intended to get some Dicts grabbing again, and also aid the whole land creation thing ;)

With respect to the inevitable criticism: Why don't we just reduce Dict's BPT penalty?

The reason mainly is that the Dict bonuses are VERY powerful, especially in war; it is, however, sometimes a more difficult government to play during growth, and this targets that specifically.





This change will roll out to servers as they reset, and WILL happen in the upcoming Alliance round.




As usual, post your comments and criticisms here. If somebody finds a major flaw in our logic we're always open to change ;)

Edited By: qzjul on Aug 23rd 2013, 17:37:43
See Original Post
Finally did the signature thing.

enshula

Member

1674

Aug 4th 2010, 5:17:33

uhm i assume this is a joke change

but just for the sake of fun:

wtf? if you get 80% buildings then land trading just got way way better

now you get much more land than the other person loses and can pretty much funnel land through dicts even if you dont want to bother building the land while its there

with theo it takes you 72% of normal turns to build, with dict it takes you 142% of normal turns

but:
1*1=1
.72*1=.72
1.42*.68=.9656

therefore if you you grab on strat buildings and drop 32% of the unbuilt acres you spend less turns building than a monarchy and get get a lot more buildings for free reducing building cost by about 32% compared to doing the same thing now


not to mention you know grab 121.6% as much land off a fully built country as you would previously making it better than tyranny for land gain

1/1.8=55.5% land unbuilt dict
1/1.48=67.56% land unbuilt mono

55.5*1.42=78.81
78.81/67.56=16.65% more turns to build than mono

roughly 25% decrease in building costs, less csite losses than tyranny as they should lose 20% more than dict

1/1.2=83.33%

so if you get to a spot which allows the csite loss to differ by just 1 then thats 1 full bpt of turn saved meaning if you were at ~7 turns of full bpt rebuilding the building speed penalty is cancelled out completely

Edited By: enshula on Aug 4th 2010, 5:41:54
See Original Post

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
9863

Aug 4th 2010, 5:19:14

Hm it's not as drastic as you think; normal is already 48%; upping to 80% is not a huge change
Finally did the signature thing.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
9863

Aug 4th 2010, 5:39:01

A (Dictatorship)
Networth $2,000,000

Attacking

B
Networth $2,000,000
Land 20,000 (Fully Built, 400CS, 19600 Farms)

Your forces invaded B
1400 Acres (2498 Gained)
1098 Buildings (1400 Destroyed)


--------------------


A (Monarchy)
Networth $2,000,000

Attacking

C
Networth $2,000,000
Land 20,000 (Fully Built, 400CS, 19600 Farms)

Your forces invaded C
1400 Acres (2059 Gained)
659 Buildings (1400 Destroyed)


--------------------


A (Tyranny)
Networth $2,000,000

Attacking

C
Networth $2,000,000
Land 20,000 (Fully Built, 400CS, 19600 Farms)

Your forces invaded C
1680 Acres (2471 Gained)
791 Buildings (1680 Destroyed)


So sure, it's a bit, but it's not too insane methinks. Note that building-based ghost acres get nerfed really quickly, so Dict will not rival Tyr for farming, which has a permanent +20%. Also you have to hit a fully built country to benefit, and it actually takes less land from the target while delivering you that land.






Edited By: qzjul on Aug 4th 2010, 5:45:51
See Original Post
Finally did the signature thing.

llaar

Member

11,145

Aug 4th 2010, 5:42:51

interesting change

would make it a more viable grabbing strat for sure

enshula

Member

1674

Aug 4th 2010, 5:49:39

in that example the dict could drop 439 acres leaving 961 left

using your csite numbers

1400/105=13.33 turns building
961/73.5= 13.07 turn building

so the dict can not only get to fully built faster than the mono it for 68% as much of the price

it almost changes the 30% bpt penalty into a 30% construction cost bonus

enshula

Member

1674

Aug 4th 2010, 5:51:24

i agree its not quite as effective as possible on higher DR and less built countries

but it makes land trading a lot lot better just after you put in a change designed to make it worse

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
9863

Aug 4th 2010, 5:55:37

True, assuming you hit non-DR targets that are the same strat as you want to be...
Finally did the signature thing.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
9863

Aug 4th 2010, 5:56:53

Yes, I realize that; however, this was in the works long before that change, as probably one of the best methods to improve Dict viability without seriously overpowering it during war &etc.
Finally did the signature thing.

enshula

Member

1674

Aug 4th 2010, 6:08:25

this makes land trading 38% better than it was

and still better than it was for up to 5 hits a day

more than that because now one of the costs, building is cheaper, and dict is a higher income strat than tyranny

turns were only one of the limiting factors on land trading, costs was another and this makes it a lot more profitable

silverbeet

Member

89

Aug 4th 2010, 7:39:51

minor?
I think this is huge, and makes my demo-techer awesomer.

rpottage

Member

189

Aug 4th 2010, 7:43:15

Originally posted by silverbeet:
minor?
I think this is huge, and makes my demo-techer awesomer.
....

How does it help your demo techer in any way?

Devestation

Member

792

Aug 4th 2010, 8:34:01

thats what I thought, lol.

We now need a government which can only grab less buildings. I nominate Communism.

enshula

Member

1674

Aug 4th 2010, 9:01:37

tyranny would be the logical choice, although that would encourage hitting people in deep DR which isnt really the best idea

starstalker4

Member

292

Aug 4th 2010, 12:59:58

DISCLAIMER: applies to express only

congratulations on improving the game

maybe now i wont have to post around the clock with new ideas



if you can win a game without ever fighting a battle; it is not a war game

silverbeet

Member

89

Aug 4th 2010, 13:15:10

It means I got another start I could use for my demo=techer. It's all about the start and how much land I can get early on. Anything that improves gains is worth considering.

rpottage

Member

189

Aug 4th 2010, 14:55:12

Originally posted by starstalker4:
DISCLAIMER: applies to express only

congratulations on improving the game

maybe now i wont have to post around the clock with new ideas
You're going to stop posting non-stop in the forums?

Thank you Qzjul, this alone makes the change worth it.



{quote poster=silverbeet]It means I got another start I could use for my demo=techer. It's all about the start and how much land I can get early on. Anything that improves gains is worth considering.[/quote] But if you're talking about gaining land to start then you're still better off with a Rep or Tyr.

archaic

Member

5885

Aug 4th 2010, 18:09:00

Wow - interesting. This might just spur a bit of actual grabbing.

The only problem I see is that this may inordinately punish cashers/farmers for having the kind of buildings that Dicts are most likely to want. All of the turns that the Dict does not use rebuilding will be used spying targets to see what strat they are running. I suspect that Commies and MB-resellers will probably be relatively immune to this change. On the other hand - especially when considered in conjunction with the new TPT increase - did the grabbing Dict-Techer just become a viable gaining strat?

I ran Dict-Techers in Primary or as a war strat in 1A for years, but now I suspect I may have some company on the Patron/Dict-Techer forums.

CandyMan: stop doing KR on our originals.

rpottage

Member

189

Aug 4th 2010, 18:26:06

Originally posted by rpottage:
Originally posted by starstalker4:
DISCLAIMER: applies to express only

congratulations on improving the game

maybe now i wont have to post around the clock with new ideas
You're going to stop posting non-stop in the forums?

Thank you Qzjul, this alone makes the change worth it.



Originally posted by silverbeet:
It means I got another start I could use for my demo=techer. It's all about the start and how much land I can get early on. Anything that improves gains is worth considering.
But if you're talking about gaining land to start then you're still better off with a Rep or Tyr.

Eric171

Member

460

Aug 5th 2010, 1:45:01

you guys should bring back the attack bonus bug that dict had in earth2025 as a feature in EE.

THAT is what made dicts so popular again in war tags during 2007-2009. ;)

M0REP0WER

Member

24

Aug 5th 2010, 14:26:57

The "help information on government types" needs to be updated to reflect this please.

lincoln

Member

949

Aug 5th 2010, 20:24:46

i just took some test hits in express

i dont think the formula is working
FoG

Kingme

Member

1753

Aug 5th 2010, 20:57:03

This is confirmed, and being currently worked on/looked at by a mod.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
9863

Aug 5th 2010, 22:13:39

err i may have forgotten to turn it on for express.....
Finally did the signature thing.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
9863

Aug 5th 2010, 22:16:35

err or i simply forgot to make the code live :)
Finally did the signature thing.

lincoln

Member

949

Aug 5th 2010, 22:27:52

err)))
so i am going to play an old fashioned I this set

maybe Ivan the Terrible can coach me

Edited By: lincoln on Aug 5th 2010, 22:31:13
See Original Post
FoG

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
9863

Aug 5th 2010, 22:43:46

it is live now btw ;) (well i haven't tested it but it should work)
Finally did the signature thing.

lincoln

Member

949

Aug 6th 2010, 1:07:17

i took three practice hits
FoG

lincoln

Member

949

Aug 6th 2010, 1:29:49

i dont mind being the guinea pig ut something is wrong here

the guy that hit me got 80% buildings

either the admins r having fun with me or under this new rule anyone who hits dictators won the lottery

Edited By: lincoln on Aug 6th 2010, 1:43:29
See Original Post
FoG

lincoln

Member

949

Aug 6th 2010, 2:03:23

i am the dictator getting hit
take a look at these stats
then come hit me i dont blame u

first ss
173 acres 253 gained
225 buildings 75 stolen

that is not a typo


second ss
136 acres 208 gained
181 buildings 62 stolen

third ss
110 acres 177gained
151 buildings 54 stolen

that is not the I hitting which is little better than normal
that is the I getting hit

is it too late to go casher??
FoG

enshula

Member

1674

Aug 6th 2010, 2:16:15

i think its something wrong with the news

first hit you lose 173 and he gets 75 buildings, that seems about right if about 85% of your land was grabbable buildings

whats weird is the buildings number before should never say more than the acres number i think, since that supposed to mean how many buildings you lost

lincoln

Member

949

Aug 6th 2010, 2:20:42

i deleted that country
it cost me 26 turns but thats ok
i didnt send myself cheap tech btw

well some buildings were stolen what does that mean?

Edited By: lincoln on Aug 6th 2010, 2:23:21
See Original Post
FoG

lincoln

Member

949

Aug 6th 2010, 2:21:40

nothing wrong with the news when i got hit it was cataclysmic

not so much in terms of land but buildings gone
just too much

i will tell you this though if my new country spots another I
i am going to party like its 1941

Edited By: lincoln on Aug 6th 2010, 2:27:32
See Original Post
FoG

enshula

Member

1674

Aug 6th 2010, 2:41:06

are you saying when you get grabbed you end up with unbuilt acres when you were fully built before being grabbed?

because i think he got 48% or slightly less

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
9863

Aug 6th 2010, 3:45:42

i'm confused; the defender shouldn't see anything different other than (stolen) amount or something
Finally did the signature thing.

lincoln

Member

949

Aug 6th 2010, 15:14:41

with a fully teched T i PSed an I

no cataclysm, no cats sleeping with dogs, no bill murray

so maybe it is a news glitch
or maybe the I gets hurt more than the T gets
FoG

lincoln

Member

949

Aug 6th 2010, 16:43:04

ok as we hoped I just hit me back

ss
85 acres 175 gained
149 buildings 75 stolen
FoG

mrford

Member

20,622

Aug 6th 2010, 17:47:56

Areyou saying you have 2 countries? Lol
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

lincoln

Member

949

Aug 6th 2010, 19:37:34

no not an LaE memeber
play one live country in individual servers
FoG

starstalker4

Member

292

Aug 9th 2010, 5:56:19

ummmmmmmm

just to try out the I i started an alliance country

i do not think it is turned on in alliance either
if you can win a game without ever fighting a battle; it is not a war game

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
9863

Aug 9th 2010, 16:53:38

i'm pretty sure it is....
Finally did the signature thing.

lincoln

Member

949

Aug 9th 2010, 17:18:18

did you fix the hits on the dictatorship getting more buildings than acres?
or at least the report that it was?
FoG

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
9863

Aug 9th 2010, 18:12:45

it's not possible for them to get more buildings than acres... but i'll look into the report
Finally did the signature thing.

lincoln

Member

949

Aug 9th 2010, 18:18:12

hold on we have three more express attacks coming in

after my country died i ran an allx no defense R

i got hit three times
i asked the I to also report his news

fist ss
197 acres 359 gained
352 buildings 157 stolen

2nd ss
210 acres 377 gained
375 buildings 167 stolen

ps

335 acres 601 gained
597 buildings 266 stolen

i hope he follows through with a post
FoG

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
9863

Aug 9th 2010, 18:35:54

Yea, so you lost errr... which side was this? that was the attackers news? or the defenders news?

i'll have to test it with a NW difference in alpha server
Finally did the signature thing.

lincoln

Member

949

Aug 9th 2010, 18:50:38

this was the no defense R's news
FoG

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
9863

Aug 9th 2010, 18:51:31

so when you say no defence you mean no defence DEFENDER? yes? or no defence attacker?
Finally did the signature thing.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
9863

Aug 9th 2010, 18:52:10

Ah, yes I see you mentioned that you got hit kk
Finally did the signature thing.

lincoln

Member

949

Aug 9th 2010, 18:58:30

i think the guy that hit me with must be in LaE
he sent the acreage to me but forgot to send the number of buildings
FoG

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
9863

Aug 9th 2010, 19:06:41

Defender
Monarchy
NW 200,000
Land: 2000
Farms: 1600
CS: 400
Unbuilt: 0



Attacker
Dictator
NW: 1,800,000
Land: 16,000
Farms: 15,600
CS: 400



ATTACKER NEWS
37 Acres (109 Gained)
43 Buildings (37 Destroyed)

Attacker final stats
Land 16,109 (gain of 109)
Farms 15,643 (gain of 43)
Construction Sites 400 (no change)
Unused Lands 66 (gain of 66)

66+43 = 109

DEFENDER NEWS
37 Acres (109 Gained)
80 Buildings (43 Stolen)


Land 1963 (-37)
Farms 1563 (-37)
Construction Sites 400 (no change)
Unused Land 0 (no change)





So i guess rather than 37+43 = 80 (43) being reported i should report 37 (43)
Finally did the signature thing.