Verified:

midevil.chaos Game profile

Member
202

Oct 29th 2017, 1:52:26

I was reading a BUNCH of posts about people complaining that they get 5 tapped, which obviously isn't cool, or even guys KRing countries in solo servers, which isn't legal. What about a suicide server? One where there are zero rules whatsoever (except of course, the usual no racist, sexist or offensive messages). A form of express server, but one without rules. People "break" rules or even annoy the crap out of people because they are either angry, want to test out things, or simply mess with people. A suicide server might help in diffusing that tension. I don't know, I think this *might* be a viable solution, no? When your country dies, you get 90% back of everything you had when you died, so that you don't feel angry or upset about it. Ultimately, you would not be starting from scratch.

++++++

At this point, might as well have a new attack system

I propose modifying the system to incorporate these attacks instead of the current ones:

Standard Strike (Kills military | Plunders money)
Planned Strike (Kills military | Gain land)
Special Ops Strike (Kills spies | Plunders technology)
Industrial Sabotage (Destroys farm crops | Plunders oil)
Retaliation (Ambush X% of enemies after attack)
Missile (same as before)

++++++

As Drunck was talking about, a Black Market.
Perhaps the following on the black market:

Purchase: CS that cannot be converted to land (unless stolen by opponent, where they can build land or CS with it. If ever you get your land back from that enemy who stole it, you must pay 1 million dollar per acre to use it a actual land. Fee paid only before land is built).
Purchase: Missiles, but which can be stolen.
Purchase: Random government token - you pick your desired government, then 2 random government types are added into the "hat", where the computer randomly picks one of the 3 government types. You get 1/3 chances to modify your government for 30 million dollars. You get up to three chances, for a grand total of 90 million.

++++++

As sinistril said, X% of NW on kill hits. Maybe not the bonus on defends though, as that can easily be abused.

Edited By: midevil.chaos on Nov 7th 2017, 1:49:11
See Original Post

Gerdler Game profile

Forum Moderator
5077

Oct 29th 2017, 22:29:27

I like your thinking and I think the suggestion it self, with a new server with another focus, a pure war server if you will, is a good one. I think however that you are missing a crucial ingredient in the suicider mindset. They want to hit them where it hurts, if you sign up for the suicide/war server you expect to fight and prepare as such. work goes into that instead of something else, which means you cant hurt them by hitting them there.

So maybe if there was another server that had ranking based on kills, destroyed buildings, killed pop and such, it would relieve some of the griefing but not the majority of it.

midevil.chaos Game profile

Member
202

Oct 31st 2017, 1:50:57

Oh, I like your added suggestion to this. It's definitely something I could see as being a really good added bonus for suiciders. I mean, having those rankings based on that is perfect. It actually prevents someone from knowing what to prepare for, and thus allowing people to exploit those weaknesses.

DruncK Game profile

Member
2090

Nov 1st 2017, 3:28:59

You just need a server where you capture a certain percentage of the defending country's NW.

DruncK Game profile

Member
2090

Nov 1st 2017, 3:29:57

And black market (spies, missiles, construction sites etc)

Gerdler Game profile

Forum Moderator
5077

Nov 1st 2017, 3:36:42

You capture a part of the enemies resources when you landgrab or GS. Several spy ops do that too.

If hitting people was only done for your own country's benefit there would be no issue.

Edited By: Gerdler on Nov 1st 2017, 3:39:01

sinistril Game profile

Member
2184

Nov 1st 2017, 5:08:38

Get a portion of people's networth on kill hits. Get bonus money every couple hundred defends.
If you give a man some fire, he'll be warm for awhile. If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Gerdler Game profile

Forum Moderator
5077

Nov 1st 2017, 6:52:35

NW is comprised of resources, so it should be that you capture resources like land, buildings, cash, market goods, military, etc when you kill.

midevil.chaos Game profile

Member
202

Nov 7th 2017, 1:47:39

Sure... how about an entirely new attack system?

Right now, as it stands:
Standard Strike, Planned Strike, Guerrilla Strike, Bombing Run, Artillery Barrage, Missile

++++++

I think these might be better suited:
Standard Strike (Kills military | Plunders money)
Planned Strike (Kills military | Gain land)
Special Ops Strike (Kills spies | Plunders technology)
Industrial Sabotage (Destroys farm crops | Plunders oil)
Retaliation (Ambush X% of enemies after attack)
Missile (same as before)

++++++

As Drunck was talking about, a Black Market.
Perhaps the following on the black market:

Purchase: CS that cannot be converted to land (unless stolen by opponent, where they can build land or CS with it. If ever you get your land back from that enemy who stole it, you must pay 1 million dollar per acre to use it a actual land. Fee paid only before land is built).
Purchase: Missiles, but which can be stolen.
Purchase: Random government token - you pick your desired government, then 2 random government types are added into the "hat", where the computer randomly picks one of the 3 government types. You get 1/3 chances to modify your government for 30 million dollars. You get up to three chances, for a grand total of 90 million.

++++++

As sinistril said, X% of NW on kill hits. Maybe not the bonus on defends though, as that can easily be abused.



Gerdler Game profile

Forum Moderator
5077

Nov 9th 2017, 3:55:52

honestly, right now I think you are trying to reinvent the wheel with a new attack system when all we need is a new scoring system.

All we need imo is a server that ranks countries based on a point system where you are given points for each civ killed, building destroyed, tech stolen, cash stolen etc as well as NW.

So NW column is replaced with points=NW+damagepoints. Then all the game formulas that go on NW can use points for that server. In order to not make it too wild the game length would have to be limited and the damagepoints would have to be set up so they don't outscore the NW part too much, otherwise casher would be totally unstoppable if it gets some points and get's its techs up. Should be like 1:1 ideally.

So make it like

stolen cash= 0.0001p
stolen food=0.003p
stolen tech=0.5p
killed civ=0.05p
Destroyed building=20p
Captured building=20p
Captured acre=20p
Destroyed acre=20p
Kill=10000p+ 10% of the points of the killed. all hitters gain a part of 20% the targets points proportional to their contribution in civs killed.
DH=10p
Successful attack=100p
successful op=50p
Everything else like military losses are set at like 20% of their NW value and only the attacker gains, not the defender.

And then you lose half that when its done to you to a minimum of 0p. Ghost acres/buildings create ghost points and the fact that you get twice as much when taking as you lose means everyone on average keeps gaining.

:)

Edited By: Gerdler on Nov 9th 2017, 3:58:48

clintonista Game profile

Member
716

Nov 9th 2017, 4:41:25

Express is the perfect server for this.

Gerdler Game profile

Forum Moderator
5077

Nov 9th 2017, 5:25:33

the current express server is perfect for players wanting to try out new stuff fast and chilling for a bit. the format may be great for it, but the current express serves a very important purpose as it is.

DancingBear Game profile

Member
324

Nov 9th 2017, 7:12:57

i was put off just from the name "suicide server"

l propose "arena server" though perhaps "cage server" might be more apprpriate ;)

regardless, i kind of agree with both clintonista and gerdler regarding express - solo server, short game, fast game, oil in private market, tech always sellable at $1000 -- seems good for arena. but express does serve it's own purposes as is and much of that would probably get lost if it was morphed into the arena

but bots seem to run quite contrary to the spirit of the arena, and if you took the bots out of express, well that would rather upend express all by itself

so a good first step would be to clone express and add the mechanics of the new scoring system, but initially leave out proposals to actually change the game - like getting all or any fraction of DEAD player's assets post mortem

there would be a lot to work out to get the arena scoring system to be supported by a majority of the players, but at one set per week, probably only few months to converge to some kind of playable concensus

i do think arena would provide a venue where currently unmet needs might find some satisfaction, but i don't think it would diminish the desire of true suiciders

but having a public, participatory venue where players could be called out and grudges could be settled would be fantastic

see you in the arena!





midevil.chaos Game profile

Member
202

Nov 9th 2017, 7:58:48

I hate that saying lol... the wheel has ALWAYS been reinvented. Always. A horse drawn cart wheel is different from a damn car wheel. Sorry, I just really hate that saying lol. Anyhow, the idea you have isn't bad per se, but I still prefer having a server that would be different. Otherwise, how is it really different from any other server? Although, I could live with either of our ideas. Yours is definitely one that is feasible as well.

clintonista, no it's not one bit. If you don't have time to play on the Primary, 1A, Tournament, Team or FFA, the Express server is best suited for those types of players.

DancingBear... no. The purpose of what I am suggesting is NOT an arena or a cage. It would be a suicide server, and I'm certainly NOT ever calling it an arena. Suicide server is the name of this idea, and I'll fight for that name as long as there is a possibility of a new server. You may not like the name, but I came up with it, so please don't try to create something different from it. Please have some respect.

DancingBear Game profile

Member
324

Nov 9th 2017, 8:39:00

respect?

for an ill conceived, incoherent, non-implementable bunch of rubbish ideas?

no

imo, what you have suggested has little to do with earth 2025 and i don't see any reason anyone would suggest that it does

go ahead and implement a new game with new rules and advertise it in these forums when it is ready for beta testing

suiciders just suck and i would prefer all such players go to the home you make for them

good luck

Gerdler Game profile

Forum Moderator
5077

Nov 9th 2017, 11:20:43

Do you realize how much harder it would be to change all the attacks and formulas for them to some playable game version than it would be to use the formulas we have and just change the NW column in the ranks page for that one server?

What you are talking about is creating a new game. I dont see how something that is not Earth Empires could let people take out their EE grieviances with each other there.

Thats like saying; "ohh man you double-tapped me in Primary now I'm comming after you in utopia, if you are willing to play utopia and fight me there? Otherwise you a coward!"

Even if this is not the purpose of the server I do not see how it could not be based on THIS game. EE itself has a lot of thought into its formulas and attack types.
Furthermore not a lot of thought has gone into those formulas the past few years and it may be time for at least balance changes, for example to make alliance warfare into something else than an endless string of GSs. Changing the new server to run on new rules would take effort away from much needed work on EE.

sinistril Game profile

Member
2184

Nov 9th 2017, 21:41:35

Take out SS and PS. Gain land only from kills so you don't get whiny ppl playing the server.
If you give a man some fire, he'll be warm for awhile. If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

midevil.chaos Game profile

Member
202

Nov 14th 2017, 1:01:30

I am not at all @Gerdler. Not sure how you see this as any form of attempt at changing the game altogether. Your Utopia reference makes NO sense, for two reasons: Utopia sucks compared to Earth, and secondly when I saw IX close down when it had years ago, I was shocked. I mean, losing MX was bad enough, but when when way bigger clans shut down, that speaks volumes about keeping innovation out. Don't get me wrong, Earth is great how it is, but you can't expect everything to always be homogenous gameplay wise. A new server based on innovation and change would be a welcomed addition imo.

@DancingBear, you're... proving my point. But no hard feelings.

@sinistril, that is a very interesting idea!

Edited By: midevil.chaos on Nov 14th 2017, 1:08:13
See Original Post