Have a bit of a problem with getting a bit fat too early. It's generally from exploring. How do you guys (cashers/farmers) manage to stay so small, what do you do with your turns?

buy more defense or get tech. The commies usually outpace you quicker than you can explore. I don't understand this unless you hit explore button too much without building them up completely. are you Usually mosto f your first 100 turns go to CS so you can't possibly get that fat.

I have been away from this game for a looong time so still gettin back to grips with it.

I guess that will be why. I mustn't go as CS heavy as other peeps. Will re-think my start a bit.

Cheers tduong.

Yeah, you could spend more of the early game buying tech and building c-sites, or doing a tech start.

Tech is mucho expensive (damn techers *shakes fist with rage*).

Got a couple of days to think about how to start, will try and dig out some old strats and re-work them.

don't hate on techers lol. techers demand high prices at first because when we do anything besides teching we don't have income. Like building cs,exploring,attacking, etc...

Yeah but still, help a brother out and lower the damn prices :p

I do a tech start for casher or farmer. A very fast one, switched over to casher/farmer in under 360 turns.

So you make the switch at 360 or aim to be fully switched by 360?

I'm generally switched by turn 330 to turn 340 with 140 CS and 55k to 60k tech points. I then boost my CS count way up when I'm at 4k acres, to 200 to 300 and further increase my techs while I am boosting my CS count.

Thanks, will bear this in mind when I'm deciding my strat.

I save max turns at turn 99 and then begin with a tech phase. The tech phase usually keeps me small enough to not be hit with regularity (that and the 100k warfare i tech up front).

...I should add that my intention is to never NET with the set of turns i am given. lol

*takes notes*

Safest way is play a tech phase. That way you never get too fat early.

55-60k tech points by turn 330. Let me have that tech start. It sounds a little bit high doesn't it?

It does indeed. My attempt just landed at 40k tech points after exactly 330 turns. And I have 20 less c-sites. Maybe I didn't get enough land first.

My bad, I just realized that the 55k to 60k by turn 330 is on FFA, where I have a 30% boost to tech production due to having 3 tech allies doing the exact same startup playing at the exact same time as each other. Its still a good startup, though, but not quite as good as advertised.

Well, the best I ever did with a tech start is getting to about 55k tech points (with 3 tech allies) at around turn 360 (140 CS and fully converted and ~2k acres). Probably possible to get the same amount of tech, CS and fully convert by turn 340, but I haven't done the math.

If you do some grabbing instead of exploring for your land, I think turn 340++ is possible.

Our tech starts are basically equal then, oldman, since without tech allies, I wouldn't be converted until about turn 360.

That makes me feel a little bit better. Puts 40k up to 52k.

I usually do it without tech allies though. So I'll normally be fully converted by turn 400. No harm getting more tech before going on a land-grabbing spree.

rockman: there're only the few variations of tech start out there, so it can't be so different =) I've been using the same one since 14 years ago. I know folks have tried to optimize it, but it's just too much trouble for me lol.

I optimized mine ... for time, since I use it on FFA with 16 countries.

Oh boy, do I need to learn a good startup. Mine sucks! oldman/Rockman/blid, can you guys send me yours? It might help me get off the ground better.

THanks.

Mine is quite different actually - not sure if its better though. I go heavy indy, full bpt and only then convert to tech at around 3500 acres. Then get tech up much higher to 150k and convert. Not sure if its more efficient though but seems to work quite well for me

/me tech starts with warfare

I've used a 3500 acre tech start as well. In fact, that's the start I usually play with my theo techer. I have no idea how to compare it to the 2000 acre tech starts except running both and comparing results... but you'd have to compare out at turn 550 or so.

can someone pm me the 3500 tech start. I really need to compare it to mine. My tech start up only nets me 30k at turn 330. So i'm a little behind lol. I can do rockman's and get ~40k but i want to see if the 3500 start up is better for express.

I'd recommend taking a bit more time in a tech start and getting over 50k total tech. I stopped barely over 50k this set in primary because I had just one tech ally, and I think I converted too fast. In hindsight, I should have spent another 20 turns teching bus/res techs. If I had boosted my CS count a bit more at 4k acres, it might have worked out, but I only went to 240 CS before I started grabbing. I spent too much time with just 158% to 160% bus/res techs, I really wish I had gotten just a tad more tech at the start.

In express, you can wait until near the end of the 2nd day before playing any turns, and you can wait until mid to late day 3 before you're boosting your bpt at 4k acres. With the ability to wait until tech prices are very low, I'd say that stopping at 45k to 50k tech points in express might work, but in other servers where you can't wait such an extremely long time before playing, I would say that 55k to 60k is a better amount of tech to aim for. If you practice it, you could do a theo cash start that saves up to almost 360(360) and waits for tech prices to really drop far, and then goes CS heavy to limit its growth, could work out. The only way for a cash start casher or farm start farmer to work is to get lots of tech and go heavy on CS.

When are they gonna get rid of 360 (360)? that's a joke. that's 2 days in a 5 day round. in other words you can sit out 40% of the round without missing a turn. 270 (180) would be much better. especially funny for techers: people can just not buy the first two days, prices start crashing the last two days

Being able to sit out that long without losing a turn is probably beneficial most to a casher.

Hmm,thnx for input guys,i guess i wason right track last set before the fiasco :)

Lots of interesting points here. Hopefully I can manage to get a decent round in this time :)

360(360) is fine. it used to be 450(300).

Staying small is easy just explore lots with little or no deff. I promise you will stay small.

That's true, just not the type of small I would want to be.

Why is it fine? i think it's nuts. 270 (180) would still let you miss a whole day and not lose any turns. In an "Express" short 5 day intensive set, people should be expected to be around most of the time, and that amount of turns is still over 20% of the round and seems pretty fair.

agreed
i actually think you should have only 270 turns and no stores. If you can't log in at least 2x a day then you shouldn't play express. This prevents boring people who stay low and stores 360(360) then use it all in the last 24 hours to take the win. That playing style is dumb and it really kills the game. I can deal with stockpiling money, bushels,etc.. but turns shouldn't be stockpiled.

your logic is dumb. So long as the same rules apply for everyone then it is equal skill/luck to win. You have the same chance to stock turns if you so choose. Maybe your style of play is lacking but don't blame the game.

I agree.

my logic is dumb?
being able to sit and wait 40% of the game without penalty is dumb. You really think it's a good idea to let a person be able to spend spend more than 1k turns in a day in a 5 day game? That's over half the game in one day!!
That beats the whole purpose of express. It's supposed to be a fast paced game, not a simulator.

Wait a minute! You can spend 1000 turns in a day? I need to reconsider my approach.

Sure you can.

Say with 24 hours left in the game you have 360 (360). You got the 360 to spend immediately, 360 coming out of storage in the next 24 hours, and 360 new turns in that same 24 hours. It's really quite absurd.

Well I'll be damned! I never even looked at it that way.

With some strategies its advantageous to start early, with others to start late. The ability to store lots of turns just adds an extra dimension to the game. Also, sometimes people only have a lot of time to play around the weekend and this lets them save up turns for then.

Also, if you have a suicider with 28K+ population,its very hard to make the kill with less then 360 turns,and if you don't kill,he will hit you again!

Hoping this start gets rid of my friday morning blues (waking up to find myself with 1k less acres).

If you store 360(360) turns, surely you are going to be farmed by the larger countries?

no, not quite. If your land is low compared to others around you with yoru networth or just low in general then no one will bother making a hit for 150 acres. That is unless you're deerhunter...

I just know that market volatility in express is really because of turns stockpiling. It's quite annoying. Play primary if you don't have time to log in twice a day. It's there for that purpose.

All it really means is that if you build a strong enough country with enough missiles and warfare you can kill tduong country 3 times in one set! I know we all look forward to that. Maybe then he will quit crying and just play the game.

lmao