This is an automatically generated thread. If you are an expert feel free to provide advice. Please follow all of the rules listed in the sticky thread. Respect the anonymity of this player's country: deducing and posting the country number of this country is a bannable offense.

This is an automatically generated post. Please note that certain values have been rounded and some have been omitted to protect the identity of the country.

Basics Government F Land 4000 Tax Rate 70% Net Income $-69600 Net Food 25200 Money $140000 Food 0 Oil 4300 Turns 15 Turns Played 604 Turns Stored 0	Technology Military 100% Medical 100% Business 100.36% Residential 100.36% Agricultural 142.82% Warfare 0.2% Military Strategy 100% Weapons 100.01% Industrial 100.11% Spy 100% SDI 1%
Structures BPT 87 Enterprise Zones 0 Residences 0 Industrial Complexes 500 Military Bases 0 Research Labs 0 Farms 3000 Oil Rigs 600 Unused 0	Military Spies 64200 Troops 74 Jets 7000 Turrets 15000 Tanks 17 Readiness 100% Nuclear Missiles 0 Chemical Missiles 0 Cruise Missiles 0

If you change your tax rate from 70% to 35%, your country's tax revenues will more than double. It is true that lowering your tax rate will slightly increase your food consumption, but the extra cash per turn will be far more than your extra food expenses.

87 bpt is a lot for express. The typical rule for judging how many construction sites you want is based on your landgoal: landgoal = 4 * bpt * bpt. In your case, 87 * 87 * 4 = 30 276, so you already have enough cs to build over 30k acres. Thus, I recommend not building any more cs for the rest of the set.

Keeping high levels of spies and low military can work, but you probably have a relatively low networth. Even if players cannot get a spy op on your country, they may do a "blind grab". Considering you have less than 20k turrets, those attacks will almost certainly succeed. It might be a good idea to get more turrets soon.

I wouldn't recommend grabbing quite yet. I find it helpful to get income tech up before grabbing.

Let me know if you have any questions.

This is an automatically generated post. Please note that certain values have been rounded and some have been omitted to protect the identity of the country.

Basics Government F Land 5000 Tax Rate 40% Net Income $-17000 Net Food 38000 Money $3.3E+6 Food 0 Oil 38000 Turns 10 Turns Played 727 Turns Stored 0	Technology Military 100% Medical 100% Business 100.31% Residential 100.31% Agricultural 154.16% Warfare 0.2% Military Strategy 100% Weapons 100.01% Industrial 100.09% Spy 100% SDI 1%
Structures BPT 100 Enterprise Zones 0 Residences 0 Industrial Complexes 500 Military Bases 0 Research Labs 0 Farms 4000 Oil Rigs 0 Unused 36	Military Spies 84900 Troops 67 Jets 58000 Turrets 13000 Tanks 16 Readiness 100% Nuclear Missiles 0 Chemical Missiles 0 Cruise Missiles 0

According to your formula of bpt, i made this :

BPT LANDGOAL TMBR (BPT)
45 8100 60
50 10000 70-75
55 12100 80-85
70 19600 90-95
80 25600 95-105
90 32400 115-125
100 40000 140-160
150 90000 190-230

It's good that you lowered your tax rate. You should see the positive impact on your country very soon, if not right away.

I'd strongly recommend not constructing any more cs. If you have extra turns, use them to explore instead. Cs do not produce anything for your country, so building even more past 100 bpt will harm both your short term and long term growth.

If you're not in GDI, you may want to consider purchasing more troops and tanks. It would be trivially easy for another country to GS or AB you right now.

This is an automatically generated post. Please note that certain values have been rounded and some have been omitted to protect the identity of the country.

Basics Government F Land 7,000 Tax Rate 40% Net Income $-95,400 Net Food 61,600 Money $500,000 Food 59,000 Oil 4 Turns 5 Turns Played 912 Turns Stored 0	Technology Military 100% Medical 100% Business 100.21% Residential 100.21% Agricultural 162.78% Warfare 0.2% Military Strategy 100% Weapons 100.01% Industrial 100.07% Spy 100% SDI 1%
Structures BPT 100 Enterprise Zones 0 Residences 0 Industrial Complexes 400 Military Bases 0 Research Labs 0 Farms 6,000 Oil Rigs 1 Unused 61	Military Spies 140,000 Troops 36,000 Jets 130,000 Turrets 130,000 Tanks 44,000 Readiness 100% Nuclear Missiles 0 Chemical Missiles 0 Cruise Missiles 0

This is an automatically generated post. Please note that certain values have been rounded and some have been omitted to protect the identity of the country.

Basics Government F Land 10,000 Tax Rate 40% Net Income $-713,000 Net Food 79,100 Money $86,000,000 Food 670,000 Oil 670,000 Turns 0 Turns Played 1532 Turns Stored 0	Technology Military 85.7% Medical 99.68% Business 148.98% Residential 148.58% Agricultural 217.5% Warfare 0.4389% Military Strategy 101.97% Weapons 136.21% Industrial 118.7% Spy 114.55% SDI 44.49%
Structures BPT 100 Enterprise Zones 0 Residences 0 Industrial Complexes 3,000 Military Bases 0 Research Labs 0 Farms 6,000 Oil Rigs 50 Unused 20	Military Spies 230,000 Troops 31,000 Jets 120,000 Turrets 6,000,000 Tanks 82,000 Readiness 100% Nuclear Missiles 0 Chemical Missiles 2 Cruise Missiles 0

Building lots of indies at this stage of the game to produce turrets isn't typical. Let's examine your decision.

You're a fascist so you get +15% food production. You also already had 217.5% agri tech. At worst, you'd have to sell your bushels for $37 each. That means that you get around 2.17500 * 5.3 * 1.15 * 37 = $490 per farm per turn.

With your indy tech, one IC produces around 2.2 turrets per turn.

In my opinion, you would have been better off continuing to construct farms. You can use money from selling bushels to purchase turrets off the public market as needed.

This is an automatically generated post. Please note that certain values have been rounded and some have been omitted to protect the identity of the country.

Basics Government H Land 10,000 Tax Rate 40% Net Income $-773,000 Net Food -10,600 Money $230,000,000 Food 4,300 Oil 160 Turns 0 Turns Played 1787 Turns Stored 0	Technology Military 97.35% Medical 99.91% Business 102.1% Residential 101.07% Agricultural 118.86% Warfare 0.2213% Military Strategy 100.18% Weapons 103.18% Industrial 100.63% Spy 101.46% SDI 33.53%
Structures BPT 7 Enterprise Zones 0 Residences 0 Industrial Complexes 0 Military Bases 10,000 Research Labs 0 Farms 0 Oil Rigs 0 Unused 0	Military Spies 180,000 Troops 1,300,000 Jets 1,100,000 Turrets 1,900,000 Tanks 560,000 Readiness 100% Nuclear Missiles 1 Chemical Missiles 2 Cruise Missiles 0

What is R Tech? Your post didn't make any sense, which is why Warster asked you for a clarification.

It doesn't look like the TMBR switch was very useful for this country. He probably didn't have enough stock to make it worthwhile.

ok slagpit
you are right shorthand may not be appropriate

this is an opportunity for a discussion about destocking
i think there are a lot of express players who would love to discuss destocking tips

R tech sometimes called casher tech is business and residential tech which are used to generate cash for Republics and other cashers

This farming F had 150% of both of these techs at 10k acres
see screenshot 4
that comes to about 150k tech points that are essentially useless to an F who has no enterprise zones and no residences
the price at the time was about 3k per point so that is $450M dollars of worthless tech, why? it also had it looks like 80K military tech which was essentially useless to this build given that food was selling at $43+
which is another $240M again the question is why?
it also sold at least 100k agri tech and it looks like 70k weapons tech in addition to 4M turrets at the time of the conversion
at the time of the conversion with 6M turrets it was certainly a top 20 country probably higher
why does a top 20 country have so much worthless tech and where did the proceeds go?
it should have had about $1.8B even if we do not consider how much food it had on the way to market or the 650000 barrels of oil when we add that in the result should have been considerable
it is true that in 250 turns it tore down 10000 buildings and built 10000 new ones but it should still have had well in excess of $1B

is that not enough?
if not, why not?

how much stock should one have on hand to convert a farming F to a TMBR?

just as a side note, perhaps it would be helpful to future analysis if the autopost included goods and tech on the way to market so that we could evaluate its stock

I think thats a bit to personal, if the person wants the advice they will probably volenteer the info them selvs i dont think its good for the game to dig that deep into countrys for the purpose of this board

They can post their stock if they want to. Otherwise people could use the info to undercut them if market was auto put in the information

As for when is it worth it, lets look at the initial Private Market Buyout

At 15k acres

No military bases. But with Military Tech
total ($) 2,575,744,944 NW 9,915,456


With rebuilding
total ($) 1,668,094,702 NW 9,915,456
Rebuilding Cost 906,750,000
Total Cost = 2,574,844,702


Then take into acount that at 60 BPT it will take you 220 turns to convert. Which is rouhgly 1.4b cash at that stage in the game. Meaning roughly another 600-800m worth of production lost. Since while rebuilding you still make some cash.

So for TMBR to be worth it, it depends on your BPT, your Land and your Stock.

So its up to you to decide if your country is in the correct state to switch or not. But in short, Under 2b stock is not worth switching

If the person is able to get stock past 2b, then they can do their own calculations since they arent a noob :P

On a side note

Bus/Res tech is not useless for a farmer. It still increases cash generated per turn.

I usually run around 120% in express.

at 100bpt it took 100 turns assume it used the new bonuses to reduce the cost by 40%

having considered it
the problem was not the conversion itself
its problem was that the conversion was too late
it got no regeneration
the timing of conversions has been debated on this forum several times over the past few months with no result
this conversion was way too late by at least six hours

and as for investing hundreds of millions of dollars in bus and res tech for an F farmer i see from your thread you did not make that mistake this set

Some bus/res tech might make sense for any country, even an F farmer. You have to run a cost/benefit analysis of the cost of the tech, and how much income it will give you over the rest of the set vs how much income you would have gained putting that money into Ag tech instead. The eestats.com tech calculator is very useful for this.

For an F, I suspect it doesn't make sense to get much bus/res tech at all (it is pretty cheap to get to ~120%) especially if your Ag tech isn't maxed out. Personally, I like to put a few points into every category with any gov't type as the first few %s of gains are very cheap :P

Your an idiot Lincoln.

Cost you $10,000 to increase bus/res from 100% to 101%. Are you telling me that over 1800 turns he wont make more money. Cause the answer is yes he will make more money.

Revenue is Roughly $1m. Times that by 101%... oh wow he made $10,000 dollars in 1 turn. So in 1 turn he got his money back. So lets say he bought the tech at turn 800. He makes an additional 10k*1,000 turns = 10m more cash.

So spend 10k cash. Gain 10m cash for the entire set. I stand by my point. So please stop posting incorrect advice.

The conversion was the problem. The cheap building only lasts for 10 turns at 40%. 20 turns if he uses all 8 points on it,

So conversion would at best still cost him 600m cash. So he did not have enough cash to justify converting. He is best off just buying military tech. And purchasing goods from the private market without rebuilding.

The bonus works with batch building so he could have done all of the building at -40% cost by spending only 4 points.

this matter is easily resolved, next time you are playing a farmer F and you have $1M in revenue buy 3 tech points at $3k each and see if your Y% goes up a whole point.

this idea which he defends so strongly with name calling is totally absurd

The name calling isn't necessary.

His bus/res tech has nothing to do with the ICs. If he was producing 100% spies, he would have had way more than 200k spies.

Bus/res tech can be profitable for fascist farmers, if purchased in the right amounts and at the right time.

Why do that dantzig.

40% less cost to building. But you are costing yourself production by destroying all of your buildings at once. Depending on BPT and acres. You could make anywhere up to 800m cash while rebuilding. Which in some cases out weighs the -40% building cost.

Say 6m per turn and 200 turns to rebuild. = 1.2b (but your destroying buildings so a fair estimate is half. = 600m cash. While that building cost bonus is only roughly 400m cash saving

Business 0
Residential 0
Agricultural 34,750
Warfare 16,720

Industrial Complexes 360
Military Bases 0
Research Labs 0
Farms 6291
Oil Rigs 440
Construction Sites 140


Economics
Tax Revenues $231,176
Tax Rate 35%
Per Capita Income $13.19
Expenses $286,863
Military $213,053
Alliance/GDI $0
Land $73,810
Net Income $-55,687





You purchased 2000 Business, 2000 Residential, for $7,937,280.

Business 2,000 Max Productivity: 103% of Normal
Residential 2,000 Max Population: 103% of Normal


Economics
Tax Revenues $245,564
Tax Rate 35%
Per Capita Income $13.60
Expenses $287,995
Military $214,185
Alliance/GDI $0
Land $73,810
Net Income $-42,431

You purchased 8000 Business, 8000 Residential, for $31,749,120.
Business 10,000 Max Productivity: 114% of Normal
Residential 10,000 Max Population: 114% of Normal

Tax Revenues $303,644
Tax Rate 35%
Per Capita Income $15.09
Expenses $292,526
Military $218,716
Alliance/GDI $0
Land $73,810
Net Income $11,118

Point proven.

Cost me $39m to increase my cash flow by 66k

66k * 2000 turns = 132,000,000


So at the current rate i make 3.3 times the money back on my investment. If this was real life and i made 3.3 times my money back id be jumping over the moon.

So i dont see how you can possibly say that buying bus/res tech does nothing for you. Go to one of your countries and test it. I just proved it for you but im sure u will come back in this thread and somehow say im wrong. When all the numbers are right infront of you and everyone is saying bus/res tech does help fasc farmer.


AND! you post all the time saying how fasc farmer isnt competitive, but they are competitive and i play fasc/farmer in atleast 1 server every set. So ive tested it probably over 40 times already. So trust me and trust the numbers in the post above bus/res tech helps every strat type.


You just have to figure out how much will benefit you. EG 150% bus/res in this short game wont help at all. But 110% maybe 120% will help (if you ge it early enough) (and of course agri tech is more important)

this is express help
express has 1800 turns
so when your "proof" requires 2000 turns for a fully built country, it is just meaningless

if it costs you $39M on a fully built country to recover $66k a turn and you have 300 turns left, you made a bad investment

that does not even consider the opportunity costs for that $39M

in your "proof" you started with maxed out agri and missile tech
so you evidently believe that maxing out missile tech is vital before buying a single piece of casher tech, that shows the value you put on bus/res

if he buys the tech he has lost 39 mil cash

going by the upload of the country this thread is for , he got the tech around the halfway point,

so going by drinks example, he would have ran about 800-900 turns with -55k income

thats between 44 mil - 48 mil cash he has lost just by playing turns


so he will lose it either way

buying res and bus tech for farmers is all about timing, also just because you dont understand the concept lincoln doesnt mean its wrong

slagpit just deletes any posts i make in exposing this madness so i will remain silent and trust the reader

actually all but 1 of the posts in this thread that were deleted were by me

I was proving the general concept lincoln. I proved with 1% and 1 turn earlier and u didnt believe me.

I have proven with 2000 turns to prove over time it works even better.

And now warster has proven with 800 turns it still works.



So all 3 have been proven. Do i have to send you a 10,000 word essay that explains the individual benefit for 101% tech from using 1-9999 turns. Then do i have to prove that for 102% then 103%.

How about u look at it and go Oh yeah 101% works with 1 turn. He also showed 120% works with 2000 turns. And now warster showed 120% works with 800 turns. Therefore all numbers inbetween would work to different degrees and then it is the players choice for how much to buy

actually i just stated that without the tech, you would lose that money anyway