Well, its been 5 years, so I thought I'd post this for a chuckle.



Dr. anoniem [OFWGKTA]
Posts: 7669
Post your thoughts here
Apr/26/12 8:15:09
The state of the server
Solutions to the problem.
I'm not advocating running SOF/LAF/RD off of the server or diminishing their numbers, as they've tried to do to us.
I do not hate them, as many people think from AT. I just dislike everything they currently stand for, as it's hypocritical particularly from SOF/LAF.
SOF got botted off the server and are now effectively running innocent netting alliances players off of the server.
PDM/EVO were targetted for the simple reason that we got too big for our boots. They didn't like the fact that we had 60-75 members each, and had to cut us down to size, despite neither one of us trying to be political.
I mean SOL changed their stance towards the game, and received enough beatings at the hands of LaF, but yet they continue.
There is also the fact of some LaF players playing dirty, which I'm sure will come out at some point.
If you want me to create more accounts for your other heads then I will let me know who and I will do it.
This is a place where you can freely post your views, but what I will say this isn't a crusade to destroy LAF/SOF/Rival, but to just give them a taste of their own medicine and show them that even if we become outnumbered we will continue to fight for our respective rights to having friendly wars or netgaining.
Too long have they dictated what we can and can't do.
I know we've all had problems. I mean there was a point last year when EVO/PDM were in logger heads (I think Evo had 70 members and PDM had 40; however in EVO we kept away from war at all costs. We've always played on the defensive.
It's sad really, but we need to come together collectively and trust each other. This isn't about any one of our alliance's, but about all of them.
So leave your prejudices at the door, and let's work together, because if we don't that'll further empower SOF/LAF etc. i.e. in their ability to isolate us and pick us off one by one.
I will dissolve our pact with SOF once the set ends because they FSed PDM. Our pact with LaF also runs out at the end of the set, as does our pact with Rival.
I'm not sure what LCN will do.
But we'll also drop Omega, unless they decide to be helpful and stay out of the conflict, which is unlikely as they only side with whoever has the higher numbers.
We need to rally alliances such as ICN/Rage/NA/SANCT etc.

Dr. Sych [Destocking Whore]
Posts: 5583
Apr/26/12 8:39:17
if this war does happen, can we make sure we're all able to hit the same alliances. i hate the scenario where A can only hit B and C but D can only hit C. it makes joint chats terribly messy and god damn annoying.
Dr. Wat3rBaRr3l [FA]
Posts: 1261
Apr/26/12 16:55:52
I only returned 3 sets ago, so I have many gaps in knowledge of the past history of alliance server. So pardon me if I make statements that may be a little off.
The way I see it, LaF/SoF have got themselves into such deep hatred that makes it impossible to turn back the wheels of war. So war has to happen for this server to vent its emotional frustrations - too many people are calling for blood. To this extent, we need to rally alliances. This will likely be the main focus of this thread.
However, as anon has said, we should not be planning to run LaF/SoF/RD or any other alliance we do not like off the server - it is not healthy and counterproductive to this game. So what kind of server do we want then? Here, I am pointing out that we also need to think hard about Phase 2 (after the war) - reconstructing a stable server where all clans are happy to buy into the status quo.
It cannot be like in the past where netting alliances try to net and war alliances which are bored come in to blindside them. Similarly, it cannot be like now where powerful netting alliances isolate and FS weaker ones - a new kind of netgaining. This ding-donging back and forth between war after war only serves to drive players away from this game.
In my view, the most stable and relatively happy server is one where warring alliances war each other and treehuggers net, and on the side, there can be pre-arranged wars occassionally between war and netting alliances. There will be assholes who just want to pick a fight, so if such idiots appear the community has to work together to put them back in their place and maintain stability in the server. To this effect, alot effort will have to be put in crafting pacts such that there are no loopholes for exploitation from either side. Furthermore, I would advocate improving transparency of pacts by having them posted on AT. Sure people can lie and post fake pacts etc but essentially the hope is that by improving transparency, it makes it harder for clans to lie and to seggregate alliances as others can call their bluff. If we fail to enact such measures, I am afraid we will just keep seeing the same wars happening over and over again.
Last point, the old guard in this server have too much bad blood between each other. If new pacts are to be negotiated, it will have to be from new blood which do not have such deep contempt for each other. I am sure the old guard will continue to influence from behind the scenes, but here the important thing is to remove the psychological barrier of 'negotiating with scum/douchebags/etc'. So my view is that prospective new blood should be groomed for this future role. This does not mean old leaders step down, more that new leaders with 'fresh thinking' come in to establish communication and build relations from there, while taking direction from the top.

Dr. Wat3rBaRr3l [FA]
Posts: 1261
Apr/26/12 17:11:34
Another idea that just popped into my head. As what Sych says, it is just painfully difficult to run coalition wars where clans are constrained from hitting particular clans.
Right now, the fear is also that LaF/SoF and whatever other allies they can muster will likely have sufficient force to counter us. Hence, this is why we need to get the rest of the smaller clans on our side.
So rather than be afraid of the prospect of being outnumbered (due to political backchannels which plot against the other side), we can have a relatively even war where both sides try to maintain parity in numbers against the other side. I.e. I am suggesting that both camps try to ensure even numbers. The relatively weaker side gets the FS. This way, both sides get the blood they want, there is dignity on both sides and the eventual victor gets the sweet taste of victory (it will be down to: may the best man win). Afterwhich, we move in to construct a stable and transparent pact structure.
I'm not saying this will definitely work, but I see it as the best shot we have at getting revenge (albeit on more even terms) as well as creating a stable server for both warring and netting alliances. The key here is to give both sides dignity. We do not need to respect their past actions or like them, but we should still strive to treat each other with the minimum level of dignity we would like each earth member to have.

Dr. Wat3rBaRr3l [FA]
Posts: 1261
Apr/26/12 17:14:00
oh I realised I forgot to add in. When I say even sides, it also means each side can hit each alliance on either side at will: there are no caveats or clauses that allow A to hit B but not to hit C.

Archaic
Posts: 39
Apr/26/12 18:50:50
My name is Archaic and I'm a sex addict . . . oops, wrong forum.
Anyhow -
I'm not really sure that RD belongs in the same category as Sof-Laf. Sof hates RD and wants them gone, residue of their inability to get over the past I suspect. The RD problem is in reality a Silver problem.
Here is my concern: (I actually joked about this with Chevs from Sof yesterday), Laf-Sof are now worried about a mighty Sol-Evo-PDM-MD coalition arising from the ashes to smite them. That SOUNDS great, but in reality what we are looking at is trying to assemble a Makinso-Anoniem-Detmer-Arsenal coalition, which sounds about as likely me stubbing my toe on a gold nugget while mowing the grass. If ever you could find four EE heads with a more divergent set of motivations - well, I'm betting you cannot.
Now obviously I am going to smokescreen Sof in any way possible. I'd love to see Laf-Sof take a turn on the rack and I'd love for us to collectively be the ones to do it to them. But, if we are going to try to act as a coalition, a lot of people are going to have to restrain their ego's and come to a consensus.
It can't be about revenge, or driving them from the game, or asserting superiority. If we want that, we're no better than them. It needs to be about equal footing and accountability. The last thing ANYBODY wants is an endless war of attrition where the survivors are left ruling a wasteland.
Just a crazy thought - what if we bluff? Making them deal with us as equals because they THINK we have a coalition might be more profitable than trying to pull a real coalition out of a hat? This would be easier with Laf than Sof, as Laf thinks about self=preservation, whereas Sof is just a schoolyard bully?
Thoughts?

Dr. Wat3rBaRr3l [FA]
Posts: 1261
Apr/26/12 18:59:50
When you say bluff, do you mean pressure them with the fear of war to agree to certain pact terms (which are in the spirit of equal footing and accountability and do not allow them to sideline any one of us)?

Or do you mean something else?
Dr. anoniem [OFWGKTA]
Posts: 7669
Apr/26/12 22:16:55
I think RD would more than happily just let everyone else fight and wouldn't involve themselves, because if they do they'd probably be the first casualty either way. Also I tried to convince MrSilver that leaving PDM in the cold was not cool, but he was adamant PDM were acting dumb and should have pacted SOF.
I think RD are out of the equation completely.
Personally, I believe everyone can leave their egos at the door for the good of our alliances. I'm not saying we are going to easily beat them or beat them at all, but we have to make a stand for as long as possible to show them that what they're doing is wrong, and we aren't going to leave 1 or the other to get the kicking, but that we can work collectively in adversity.
Also I would suggest that if we do war those two +Rival next set, then after that we agree a period of something such as a year whereby we only have NAPs at the highest with the said parties, to access whether they've changed, because believe me SOF hold grudges and LAF will scheme in order to get hanlong and co more farmland. Evo have been at the brunt of enough LAF wars to know what they're like.

Praetor
Posts: 19
Apr/26/12 22:29:52
First of all, i dont really like these sort of forums, so i`ll restrain myself abit, i myself have had access to many forums like these over the years which i shouldt have had.
I think we all agree on not pacting SoF/LaF, i`ve been trying to win sof over for some time, but flamey`s last AT post just put the last nail in that coffin as far as im concerned, atleast with the current leadership there.
By not pacting SoF/LaF, we can all help each other out, regardless of who is their intended victim next set, that beeing said, SOL is not beeing FSed next set, we will take the fight to them.
So the next question on hand is how do we neutralize their core allies, and what can we do to win over the more perifer ones ?
i belive LCN can be pacted out, its atleast worth a try, Jiman doest belive me, but i think they might take it, going further on what Archaic says, is there any interest to draft up a block pact, meaning one of us pact for all 4, package deal unaps ? it`s an idea i`ve been playing with in my head, feel free to shoot it down.
Omega has expressed willingness to come to LaF`s defence so they are a threat, even if im not sure how their membership stands on that, Omega can war good if they are commited, the real question is if they are.
Monsters are also a wildcard there, they might jump in for their LaF overlords.
-Sanct - I dont even se any of their leadership around, are they a shell or is it a possibility ? Sanct used to be a force, but i havet seen them on the stage for quite abit, i dont know, we need to poke around there
ICN - If you want ICN, someone else than me needs to do that, me and icn are not very good friends..
NA - se sanct
Imag - is a good group to have with you in any conflict, not everyone of them run as good a country as scode, but they show up and pack a punch.
Rage - 11 tagged, i dont know if they would be willing to take a gamble, if LaF decideds to turn their attention to them , it could be bad, i would`t put our goals infront of RAGE`s survival, if they come, we need to bring them in 100% so we have their back too, that goes for anyone that are willing to help, we can`t expect support without anything back, we need to bring something to the table.
Praetor

Dr. anoniem [OFWGKTA]
Posts: 7669
Apr/26/12 22:42:52
"i belive LCN can be pacted out, its atleast worth a try, Jiman doest belive me, but i think they might take it, going further on what Archaic says, is there any interest to draft up a block pact, meaning one of us pact for all 4, package deal unaps ? it`s an idea i`ve been playing with in my head, feel free to shoot it down.">
Yeah, I told Dagga that was our downfall for this reset, because that left SOL as the only target, which is what LaF wanted, at least one of us left in the open.
So I agree on that most certainly. Though, I think that person should be someone away from the spotlight, so that they can't prejudice us because Anoniem/Makinso/Archaic said this or that.
All of sancts best players are in Evo now/All the players that kept the show running. It was an internal falling out with Axa that caused half of their membership to leave (what i was told by some of their leaders awhile back).
Sanct/NA don't seem to have very active leadership from the outside, which I suppose is a case for not "wanting" to war. But Im sure PDM/EVO don't "want" to war. It's not a case of what people "want" it's what you have to do to get what you want, and if that means standing by your friends when things aren't going that well for you then sometimes that's a sacrifice you have to make.
I dunno where NA and Sanct are hosted but i assume boxcar, so that can easily combine resources there with shared forums etc (though TurdCrawler may spy on them). Also ICN i'm not sure of either - i joined them last set for a couple of weeks and it was a ghost town in there. no instruction whatsoever, so we'd have to promise them something or help them to rebuild their alliance. so perhaps a collective of Sanct/NA/ICN is a good thing? bringing them out of obscurity and giving them a reason to be active again/recruit back their old vets for one last hurrah?
I'm sure rage can get 20 tagged. This set is their lowest membership ever? Not sure why.
I agree with the iMag statement. They are a good bunch of people to have on anyone's side and are honest too.

Dr. anoniem [OFWGKTA]
Posts: 7669
Apr/26/12 22:48:05
btw I can monitor who has access to this forum or who has viewed this forum.
I've listed everyone who i've given access to.

Archaic
Posts: 39
Apr/27/12 13:15:43
Tags like ICN, Rage, NA, and Monsters are best left on the sideline. They are not going to be much use to either side in a fight. As a block they might have influence, but statistically, its most likely they would split and cancel each other out.
The alliance that is the biggest wildcard to me is MD. MD's internal workings are pretty opaque. I'd not be so quick to embrace iMag, though they are MUCH better under scode than when soviet ran the show. iNag does not like Sol and they have acted as a Sof proxy in the past.
By bluffing, I meant if they believe we have a coalition that will fight them will they back off? Rather than actually putting one another to the test of dropping Laf as allies, could we make them believe that we have consensus and see if they blink?

Jiman (Sol)
Posts: 23
Apr/28/12 9:52:09
Hail.
I agree with the intentions of everyone here. I dont want to drive any player away from the game and I also dont want to see any wars that are overwhelming in anyones favor (aka I do not agree in gang banging anyone).
Otherwise, I do think the idea of block unaping is a decent idea for the future. I dont like the idea of bluffing. We are either here to play ball or not play ball. If we bluff and we are not prepared we will screw ourselves once again.
I think MD is a democratic system of sorts. They vote for a president every few resets I believe. That is partly why Laf attempted to make Arsenal look like a bad guy to attempt to get MD to switch leaderships when they vote once again (I think).
Omega is a threat in terms that they will come in and defend or attack us for Laf, but they wont be apart of any kind of gang bangs. They will also not be involved in betraying MD as they are strong allies with one another. I am pretty sure Omega will hit us to distract us so Laf doesnt have to deal with us if need be, or call Omega in to even the odds if need be... so I see no reason to strike Omega in any fashion unless they strike SOL first.
MD asked us to unap Omega last reset too, but Omega declined.
I think Rival is willing to war. Apparently according to the leaked chat, Rival members are more willing to war then net... so ya.
Chevs from SOF also came to talk to me about the same thing archaic.
He told me how he didnt like the idea of uneven wars and didnt want anyone to be gang banged. I told him i agreed with him... but that doesnt mean we are not going to be prepared. He also kept on telling me that "If your coalition all of a sudden drop sof/laf as allies its going to be obvoius its going to be a gang bang, and what do you think we are going to do sit ideally back and let that happen?"
Uh. Sorry but I feel that if we pact Sof/Laf right now that we are being bullied into it. I have no wanting to unap Laf next reset at all for any reason.
Monsters want to unap SOL next reset apparently.
Talked to iscode and he said he wanted to get closer to sof/laf but at the same time be close to SOL. To me this means that it is unsure what Imag wants to do exactly.
We LDP Sanct last reset, but AxA did basically say Sanct is just running random what ever.
*humps thread*

Dr. anoniem [OFWGKTA]
Posts: 7669
Apr/28/12 10:41:33
yeah, this isnt about getting revenge or gangbangs. but pacting sof/laf is pretty much being told "pact us or we will war you, but it's ok for us to not pact you when we choose".
That is my whole case for bullying, also if said alliances truly liked even wars then they wouldnt have done as they have done over the past year.
and yeah bluffing won't work because they will just FS and claim that we were the aggressive ones.
it should be we all decide to pact rival/laf/sof or nobody pacts them. i dont want to see anybody's alliance get killed off for a whole set and nobody can help them. it's not even about winning and losing. it's about standing together.
i really appreicated it when sol/tie/imag came to help evo, and even though we lost that was the true spirit of the game.

Makinso
Posts: 43
Apr/28/12 13:25:37
Im late let me read through everything then respond.

Makinso
Posts: 43
Apr/28/12 13:40:07
Alright here's my basic draft of the scenario I believe we should create next set.
Right now the clear sides are.
Side A: LaF/SoF/Rival(They will move at all times for each other).
Side B: SOL/MD/Evo/PDM with PDM being fresh in the equation due to recent events.
Neutrals with allies on both sides: TIE/Monsters/RD
That leaves out in the open: LCN/Omega/Neofed/ICN/Rage/Sanct/Imagnum
Let's analyze these tags and their past few sets of actions and stances from a SOL perspective I would say this:
LCN: Supporting LaF. But only seems to war if really pushed by LaF. Pacted out SOL this set but didn't pact MD at least from what I have been told. LCN seems to want to talk about the situation and doesn't per say involve themselves in LaFs business, they seem to consider it an option. The last arranged war between SOL and LCN and Imag won us some ground with LCN as we gained some mutual respect.
Final verdict: We might me able to talk them into pacting us.
Omega: LaF supportive refused to accept a uNAP. Will fight if we push for LaF. It's a given unless MD can convince them to stay out.
Final Verdict: Might have pull on Omega through MD but don't count on it.
Neofed: Random to me. I can't really place them anywhere atm they seem very neutral. Best case scenario we can win them over worst case we can have them neutral.
ICN/Rage: In shambles, logs of them being talked about as trash/worthless should upset them though. Getting in touch with them and feeling ground would be best. Using these tags to boast numbers would be

Dr. anoniem [OFWGKTA]
Posts: 7669
Apr/28/12 13:40:48
(Quoted from EE) "Helmet
Member
Posts: 906 Apr 28th 2012, 12:39:07
How about small or netgaining alliances just don't fluff with bigger ones and have a little common sense? I don't see anyone picking on Monsters and that's because they've always had intelligent leaders. The good of the alliance should come before the leader's pride.
....other crap here in the middle of his post...
Maybe we need to declare next round mandatory netgaining for the whole server?"
this is the kinda thing that's annoying. after a 3-5 resets of warring then he thinks his side can declare a netting set for all. I don't know what netting alliances tried to "fluff" with sof. i think most netting alliances try to stay clear of sof, and his example of monsters is a joke. monsters were passing logs to sof two years ago when we had our friendly war. they even stopped hitting for a couple of days out of fear of angering sof by beating them too quickly.
they dont even realise the arrogance in their statements and is clearly indicative of their inability to change/want to change.

Makinso
Posts: 43
Apr/28/12 13:41:05
As for NA we have a long standing FDP with them. They will follow up on it if we stay in touch with them.

Makinso
Posts: 43
Apr/28/12 13:43:40
So best case scenario we can form the following block
SOL/MD/Evo/PDM/Sanct/Imagnum/Neofed/NA not counting Rage or ICN
Monsters/TIE stay neutral or we can have them war each other like last time to have monsters (FDPs to Sof) out of the equation.
We would face LaF/SoF/Rival/Omega(unless MD talk them out).
I would advocate taking the offensive for a set under those circumstances. Then offering them block pacts. All tags involved on our side sign an FDP which states pacts can only be signed in block form and pacts are invalid if not everyone in the block signs off on it.
To long have we been on the defensive. We need the offensive to turn the scales and re stabilize the server.

Praetor
Posts: 19
Apr/28/12 15:50:56
I would like to have a core agreement where SOL/MD/EVO/PDM pact as one so we can respond to anything.
Then we build and extended bloc pact around that for our DPs, i agree on the fact that everyone should be able to hit everyone, but i doubt we can get all our DPs to go virtually pactless on unaps for a set.
As for TIE, this could be a good chance for them to get back at Monsters for FSing them in the last big skirmish.
Then we would need to stack who takes down whom
Also as i`ve said, we need to take the offensive on this and make them eat a FS

Dr. KJ [HoW]
Posts: 2636
Apr/28/12 15:56:00
I definitely feel like we must go on the offensive. I honestly think we should very very early gangbang LaF. We all leave the same alliances open, preferably keeping LCN pacted to all of us. I think SoF, LaF, Rival is very manageable for us.

Dr. anoniem [OFWGKTA]
Posts: 7669
Apr/28/12 17:15:10
Are MD/SOL or PDM here actually friends with Neofed? i.e. more than just uNAP?

Makinso
Posts: 43
Apr/28/12 17:21:18
We've been friendly with them not sure baout PDM.

Praetor
Posts: 19
Apr/28/12 18:32:55
I used to play in Neofed 1A when we moved to EC, before EC became 1A and whatnot, i can check who is still around, but last i checked, noone of the old guys are there :(

Jiman
Posts: 23
Apr/28/12 20:14:54
I am not for gangbanging.
If we really believe in what we say about not wanting to drive anyone from the game we shouldnt be for this. That isnt to say we shouldnt be prepared to strike if Laf decides to call in multiple people on an alliance, but those alliances who are on the edge right now will also side with Laf even more so.

Jiman
Posts: 23
Apr/29/12 5:18:33
Monsters want to stay neutral and plan to ask Tie for a unap for next reset.
I think TIE has no hard feelings towards Monsters as they turned it into a 1v1 war.

Makinso
Posts: 43
Apr/29/12 8:20:58
I don't believe in gangbangs either jiman. But I do believe we should make a statement by making an all out offensive to show we won't back down out of a fight.

Dr. anoniem [OFWGKTA]
Posts: 7669
Apr/29/12 12:56:22
it wont be a gangbang. They have more members than us as things stand.

but yeh, we need the FS. cant let them get the upperhand AGAIN.

Archaic
Posts: 39
Apr/30/12 2:21:54
The ONLY way we can beat them right now is a gangbang. I dont want to war, but if we do war - we have to win. A win will keep us together, a loss will allow them to divide us into bitesized pieces. Sol and MD can fight, but PDM and EVO are pretty so-so at warring right now.
Remember, IF we do this, several of us are going to have to break auto-renews with Laf, so they will know its coming. Even numbers = our asses kicked, they are absolutely not taking the high road in dealing with us - its ridiculous to propose we give them a fighting chance.
Like I said earlier, if we all drop them as a block and DP each other than we can probably sit on a fence with a large number advantage and not have to war them. But if it comes to war, we need to break out the napalm and butt-lube, because we're going to be fighting for our survival.

Dr. KJ [HoW]
Posts: 2636
Apr/30/12 3:06:36
I actually think Evo are pretty good at warring :P
Not many alliances could take an OOP FS from SoF and turn it around and beat them down :P

Detmer
Posts: 43
Apr/30/12 3:32:54
I pushed Neofed for a DP and they wouldn't do it. They were scared of having to war... said it would cause them to fold. They don't seem to want to be close to anyone... just want to let others do the dirty work so they don't get fluffed by SoF again.
Neofed used to be in PDM (including Jeremy) but well... they don't seem to have any sort of ties to us beyond our UNAP =P
And, what Archaic said in that last post.

Dr. anoniem [OFWGKTA]
Posts: 7669
Apr/30/12 6:42:18
Yeh, Neofed won't join in on this. They have no "Reason" to I suppose. if they dont want to be DPs we can't force them.
it all depends if MD are willing to get on board against LaF/SoF.
I don't think anybody will judge us if all 4 of us went for laf/sof, seeing as we've been on the brunt of being isolated/forced into wars individually for a year now. we have NEVER to this point taking the offensive, except pdm on sof, but they forced your hand.

Dr. Sych [Destocking Whore]
Posts: 5583
May/01/12 14:08:47
guys, please make sure we cover all our bases. this is after all a numbers game. these smaller alliances might not look like much individually but last thing we want is them strengthening the other side. while at this point, can we try our best to get the same pacts? it's really really annoying in joint warchats if only certain alliances and others can't.
and also please treat the alliances with respect when posting about them/their leaders, even in secret boards such as this one. never know what gets leaked and we don't want to antagonize anyone unnecessarily.

Arsenal
Posts: 85
May/01/12 14:53:01
I don't think my heads are on board for participating in a gang-bang on LaF.
If evidence they cheated comes out that would completely change the situation.

Archaic
Posts: 39
May/01/12 15:59:54
Would MD consider not pacting Laf and pacting SolEvoPDM as FDP's? Because, to be honest I think that without MD on board, Evo-PDM-Sol are not going to match up well against Laf-Sof. PDM is not going to drop pacting with Laf unless everybody else does too - it would be suicide. We DONT want to war laf, but as long as we allow Sof-Laf to keep us divided, they will have free reign to bully us individually.

Dr. anoniem [OFWGKTA]
Posts: 7669
May/01/12 17:39:35
Arsenal: I don't think it's a gangbang.
SoF+LaF = 150+ Countries + rival = 180+ countries
Evo = 40, SoL = 60?, PDM= 50, MD = 50?
180+ vs 200
anyway, im only saying it's not a gangbang, especially as it's like Omega will join. if you dont want to participate then fine, i'd just like you and other MD heads to not mention this.

Jiman
Posts: 23
May/01/12 21:52:12
It doesnt look like it would be a gang bang if those numbers are correct.

Dr. anoniem [OFWGKTA]
Posts: 7669
May/01/12 23:14:31
if we add in TIE then that's an extra 30 countries, but TIE can only hit Rival, possibly SoF too - depends if they pact them or not.
anyway, i'm not concerned with having 50 countries more than them.
they weren't concerned when 104 countries (laf+rival) hit 45 member evo.
the numbers here at most for us are 1/3rd in our favour.
laf and co. have had 2:1 advantages, as the example above shows. they dont care about gangbanging, so why should we when the aim is to give them a taste of their own medicine. we're not trying to run them off the game, but just show them that we stand united and their antics have gone on for too long.

++++++Editors Note - The following posts appear immediately after widespread Laf cheating via TC and Hanlong gaining illegal access to other clans BC accounts via TCs admin status had been revealed++++++

Arsenal
Posts: 85
May/02/12 0:01:37
MD will never again pact LaF while I am president. I also have no intention of dropping current DP's unless things change. We as always will honor our FDP.
Just saying as a prciniple my guys not keen on a gangbang and weary of coalitions. Having said that we will honor our fdp's and are tired of seeing our allies beaten so we're working through exactly what we want to do - couple of different opinions.
We have some time before next set still. But be underr no doubt we'll be there to hit LaF if they involve themselves with any of you. They will have absolutely no pact with us.

Dr. Sych [Destocking Whore]
Posts: 5583
May/02/12 2:57:54
so now that LaF has been outed for cheating, where do we stand?

Detmer
Posts: 43
May/02/12 3:01:26
We'll see where things go. If there isn't some major statement from LaF about changing its ways, I see no reason to not give them what they are due. All of their members went along with with hlw. Just because he will be removed for cheating doesn't validate their previous *alliance* actions.

Dr. Sych [Destocking Whore]
Posts: 5583
May/02/12 3:05:28
i'm sure it went beyond just hanlong & TC. and letting them just resign doesn't give them a free pass for sets that we've had to endure their fluff.

Dr. KJ [HoW]
Posts: 2636
Donor!
May/02/12 3:19:03
Omega won't be a problem now.

Dr. Sych [Destocking Whore]
Posts: 5583
May/02/12 3:25:06
i still want to drop Omega and rape em. just because.

Dr. anoniem [OFWGKTA]
Posts: 7669
May/02/12 7:26:35
I don't care if LaF change their ways or not. They've cheated through their skulls, and I don't believe any of their other heads are that stupid - that they'd just think hanlong had an evo head as a spy or any head hosted on boxcar as a spy.
this is pretty much typical. blame 2 guys for the cheating that benefitted 96 countries. why didn't any of the other heads question him?
this violation is just the justification needed. remember all of those sof/laf members who showed no remorse, well it's just about time they got their just deserts.

Jiman
Posts: 23
May/02/12 7:39:41
I dont care what happens to Laf anymore right now.

Dr. anoniem [OFWGKTA]
Posts: 7669
May/02/12 7:53:50
nobody can tell me that: "it was only hanlong and TC"
the fact that tc cheated i e2025 then to make him a leader again is a joke. secondly where the fluff did they think hanlong was getting all these logs from and game info?
"they just trusted him" - bullfluff.
i bet people like SS, Son goku, eugene etc knew they were doing shady things, but just chose to either ignore it or knew about it. ignorance is no excuse.
this is just a cherry on the top, to take away all their recent "achievements (gangbang wins)".
funny how they start to become humble - when they know TC/Hanlong cant cheat for them anymore....
i dont care what happens to them either. what i do know is that now it's time for them to eat some humble pie a la next set FS.
and i dont think people should start feeling sorry for SOF or LAF. they knew what they were doing, regardless of the cheating or not. they still wanted these wars, and it wasn't down to just hanlong/TC. it was down to both of their leaderships and members, and that still needs to be paid back in FULL.

Archaic
Posts: 39
May/03/12 4:57:42
for the record, KJ,maki, and arsenal - sorry if I suspected any of you for releasing those logs
Just think, Hanlong probably read every word of this up until today . . .

Dr. Wat3rBaRr3l [FA]
Posts: 1261
May/03/12 5:16:05
Yeah... his eyes were probably shining when he saw the forum Allies

Detmer
Posts: 43
May/03/12 13:28:59
Archaic, up until qz posted time marker =P

Archaic
Posts: 39
May/03/12 18:24:02
The funniest part is that his greatest advantage turned into his and Laf's ultimate downfall.

Balin
Posts: 15
May/05/12 15:13:39
Didn't read everything here (I will at some point), but did want to chime in that I know RD's position pretty well. They think the longer they stay out of the fray, the stronger they'll be. I think they'd literally like to just net and recruit for the next three sets, at which point, their plans go, they would emerge as a server power. ;) They also fear SoF.
hanlong sux

Balin
Posts: 15
May/07/12 13:26:32
Ok, I read through. First, I don't wholly agree with the initial premise that anoniem posted:
"this isn't a crusade to destroy LAF/SOF/Rival, but to just give them a taste of their own medicine and show them that even if we become outnumbered we will continue to fight for our respective rights to having friendly wars or netgaining."
PDM's interests here are straightforward. We hate that SoF jerks us around and rolls over us. We were fine having peace with LaF until hanlong/TC were revealed. I definitely see us aligning strongly against their bloc next set.
That said, I agree completely with what Arsenal said:
"Just saying as a prciniple my guys not keen on a gangbang and weary of coalitions. Having said that we will honor our fdp's and are tired of seeing our allies beaten"
I also agree with Maki saying:
"To long have we been on the defensive. We need the offensive to turn the scales and re stabilize the server."
And I agree with the several people who have said that we should only do this pacting as a group next set... I hate that "X can hit Y but not Z" stuff.
My impression is that RAGE would join our side if needed.

Detmer
Posts: 43
May/07/12 13:33:31
Rage is much more with us than with the others, I guarantee.
We should reach out to the rest of the server, like Monsters, NA, etc. This shouldn't just be a 4 v 3 thing, it should be an all vs cheaters thing.

Dr. anoniem
Posts: 7669
May/07/12 14:23:22
i love how sof are trying to make us look like the bad guys. when they are now fluffting themselves that their best ally (+ a source of info for them) have been caught cheating.
pdm/evo > sof
sol/md > laf
rage?/tie > rival
dunno if there are anymore lapdogs i should be worried about?

Archaic
Posts: 39
May/07/12 14:42:09
Sof are in a bind, while I believe that they inadvertently did benefit from TC and HLW having access to our BC sites, I dont think they were knowingly exploiting us. Right now the strong coalition they helped build is on the rocks and they are trying to decide if they want to keep it together or or hit the reset button and go their merry way. Helmet and chevs are stand up guys that are caught in a fluff storm. Helmet would rather bluff his way out with tough talk, and he's never going to say anything bad about sof - but I doubt if sof is going to play the laf games after this set.
Make no mistake about it, no matter what martian or pang say, TC has been reading our mail for more than one set.

Don Anoniem [HFR]
Posts: 7669
May/08/12 20:25:47
oops realised i said RD in the first post of the thread. i meant RIVAL lol
perhaps archaic. but im pretty sure sof will now use the fact that evo fsed laf to void our pact for next set and will fs us regardless of how many evo members are tagged!

Arsenal
Posts: 85
May/09/12 0:43:07
Agree with you balin/maki.
As I said given all that's going on with bc MD heads haven't really discussed next set besides no gangbang but fundamentally we will war.

Archaic
Posts: 39
May/09/12 1:26:56
Anon, I don't think Laf is not going to call in allies. They are going to take their beating this set in hopes that it will dampen enthusiasm for hitting them in future sets.

I suspect they know they are going to get hit next set, but they are going to try and spin next sets war as the end of this chapter of the coalition festivities.
I'd say that Sof and Rival will fight next set because the destiny of the server is to see the EVO-MD-PDM-Sol v Laf-Rival-Sof war that has been brewing for half of EEs existence. I hope that is the end of it.

Praetor
Posts: 19
May/10/12 11:10:03
Monsters is a laf lapdog, i`d be more than happy to throw them to the dogs of war if we have the numbers, if not, i`ll save them for another time :) They can be my dessert.

Makinso
Posts: 43
May/14/12 22:22:47
Praetor that's incorrect.
Monsters has their FDP with SoF not LAF (LaF was a given after they assisted them) Mosnters did not respond to LaFs call in the last kitchen sink war but did respond to SoFs FDP call.
TIE is on board with us all.
Personally I would say MD/SOL go at LaF while PDM/Evo go at SOF.
That leaves open Rival. TIE + Rage or Imag could take down Rival and we're all grounds covered. I don't think LCN will support LAF in any form or way.
Going the offensive is the way as earlier mentioned. We have the perfect opportunity to show LaF and it's members we will never back down from a fight as a group. Wether we need to bring the fight or the fight being brought to us. We will fight.
No guts no glory boys ;)

Arsenal
Posts: 85
May/15/12 0:00:01
Sigh. Was hoping to avoid another fluffstorm next set.
Why can't sof just stay out of it!

Don Anoniem [HFR]
Posts: 7669
May/15/12 7:38:14
sof cant stay out of it, cos they've had a hard on for evo for over 4 years now. i have no idea why. we've never done anything to them except defend our allies such as SANCT, of which are not dirty cheaters.
aponic, chevs and ivan have been nothing but fluffs to me in that whole period. topfeeding our members when they were double our size. they are bullies through and through and their members are fluffing retarded.
just take a look at all the FA cases they have when they are "bored". even grabbing RD and then self-deleting. pathetic.

Detmer
Posts: 43
May/15/12 23:40:36
Yeah, next round we have to offer all or nothing pacts - and if they choose nothing we have to plan for it. Hopefully SoF will choose to stay out.

Arsenal
Posts: 85
May/16/12 1:10:54
Let me make that offer to Helmet when the time comes. If you guys offer it, it will just decend into a yelling match.
__________________________

Detmer
Posts: 43
All or nothing pacting for next round
May/08/12 20:39:15
Which alliances need to get offered to sign all of us or none of us? SoF, LCN, Rival?

Dr. KJ [HoW]
Posts: 2636
Donor!
May/08/12 20:56:42
Sounds about right.

Dr. KJ [HoW]
Posts: 2636
May/08/12 20:58:54
And I say in order to put pressure on them, go in the order of Rival first, LCN 2nd, SoF 3rd.
Tell them its a one time only offer, contact a weak FA in that alliance but still someone with authority, pact now uNAPs++ with SOL/MD/EVO/PDM/TIE? all at once, or no pact. Do not give them time to go ask someone else and discuss it. All or nothing.

Detmer
Posts: 43
May/08/12 21:04:24
Agreed on the order and the include list. We need one person who can sign pact terms for all the alliances involved so we can get it completely done with in one go.

Dr. KJ [HoW]
Posts: 2636
Donor!
May/08/12 21:05:33
Bullying tactics for sure, but have they treated any of us any better?

Don Anoniem [HFR]
Posts: 7669
May/08/12 21:57:01
LCN are currently Evo's FDPs.
I'm assuming PDM/SOL have no pact with them?
And, I think i read somewhere that MD are also friendly with them?
maybe we can talk to them.

Don Anoniem [HFR]
Posts: 7669
May/08/12 21:57:15
but definitely pressurise Rival first

Detmer
Posts: 43
May/08/12 23:40:46
We are UNAP this round with LCN I believe, but that is a highly irregular pact. We pact them less often than not. Rival is no pact, SoF is UNAP, but we since they downgraded us from FDP, we have rarely been pacted to them. LaF was UNAP.

Arsenal
Posts: 85
May/09/12 0:46:49
I disagree on order.
LCN has indicated to me they are partial to dropping LaF down, I think RIVAL will be the bigger concern.
LCN, RIVAL, SOF.
I suggest letting PDM do this. Goes without saying LaF get absolutely nothing. I'll be encouraging my guys to LG LaF btw.

Archaic
Posts: 39
May/09/12 1:16:51
I am good with Trife, but I cant push him (can anyone?)
I have no contacts with Rival to speak of.
I have built a good relationship with chevs, but probably no better than detmer.
I'm hoping that the Laf beatdown does not become an endless war. Server moral has sucked for a year, we dont need another year of banging. I don't like Laf/Sof, but we need to have an end in mind for our retribution.

Arsenal
Posts: 85
May/09/12 1:38:58
Threatening LCN probably won't work plus they are already going to drop laf not point in threatening them and having them run back to laf and the contact would need to be in with the president trife won't do anything without discussing. If you want I can talk to LCN. But I'm not good with PG.

Don Anoniem [HFR]
Posts: 7669
May/09/12 6:11:02
To be honest Rival doesn't matter a whole lot, as TIE want to war them.
Speak to LCN about pacting uNAPs with SoL/pdm, but dont sign anything yet, as EVO need to make sure that LCN will renew our FDP, which i think it's best we speak to them about, as i dont think it looks good sending another clan to resign a FDP.
if LCN provisionally agree, then i can sign those pacts on behalf of SOL/PDM, providing purposeful1 agrees to sign the FDP.

Don Anoniem [HFR]
Posts: 7669
May/09/12 6:30:48
and yeah i wouldn't threaten LCN either. they are a good clan, and know what's right and wrong.
rival, just need to be offered blanket uNAPs - no clauses.

Arsenal
Posts: 85
May/09/12 6:59:24
I'm happy not to sign rival. They dropped us so I we're not going to ask them for a pact they cna ask us

Archaic
Posts: 39
May/09/12 13:19:14
Do we need to get a TIE rep in here? For that matter, is TIE even aware that we are counting them among a coalition that has not yet been made public?
I suspect that once word gets out that EVO MD PDM TIE and SOL are pacting as a block, Rival and some of the other semi-committed clans may suddenly decide that next would be a great netting set after all.

Detmer
Posts: 43
May/09/12 14:17:10
TIE should be here

Arsenal
Posts: 85
May/09/12 14:28:06
I'd prefer to keep it to this group. To many and it'll leak more easily.

Don Anoniem [HFR]
Posts: 7669
May/09/12 16:40:24
i spoke to TIE on sunday with makinso, and they are all for a 1v1 against rival
so i guess i'd rather keep rival open too - just in case.
So if everybody here agrees NOT to pact Rival?
the priority is pacting LCN for all of us.
I'd rather we ALL left Rival, SoF and LaF open.

Detmer
Posts: 43
May/09/12 17:48:12
I am fine with that. If TIE wants to 1v1 Rival then that is good by me and we don't need to get them on here.
So we will need to come up with some pact terms, whether identical or not, for one person to approach LCN with and sign for everyone or no one at once.

Dr. KJ [HoW]
Posts: 2636
May/09/12 17:50:51
I say we just offer LCN whatever pact they would usually use, no need to complicate it using funky OAP type clauses.... cough Makinso :P

Detmer
Posts: 43
May/09/12 18:23:47
Well we need to make sure certain terms exist - like no aiding enemies at war with one of the alliances, or if the pact is broken for one it is broken for all.

Dr. KJ [HoW]
Posts: 2636
May/09/12 18:27:59
Agreed, can we get confirmations that SOL/MD/PDM/EVO agree to this before we start coming up with the pact? Are we all happy with approaching the situation this way? Are MD prepapred to drop SoF if need by for example?
I think I can safely say that Evolution agree.

Arsenal
Posts: 85
May/09/12 23:15:43
I need to have discussions with the heads on SoF, but if they don't pact you and don't drop LaF then I think we would drop them (no other choice). Let me discuss and come back to you all.

Archaic
Posts: 39
May/10/12 1:07:39
so TIE-Rival would be a side war with no involvement the coaltion blocks?
Arsenal, I have kind of assumed that everything I've said in here will someday end up on AT.
While I'd love to Sof and Laf alone on an FA island next set, I don't think MD retaining a pact with Sof would be a deal breaker. 4 v Laf and 3 v Sof would not really hinder the war room all that much

Don Anoniem [HFR]
Posts: 7669
May/10/12 9:59:50
well, now that iMag FSed TIE - I'll have to convince TIE not to get revenge >_>

Praetor
Posts: 19
May/10/12 11:06:37
I`ve been on the fench regarding SoF for awhile as most of you know, but the last few weeks has shown me that with the current leadership (ref flamey) there is`t alot i can do to repair releations there, so that puts sof in the mix for me.
Same goes with Rival, PG seems to hate me/SOL with a passion so nothing i can do there really, but they dont seem to have much to do with the current politics, they just hit whatever they are told, i`m sure old Rival members would be upset about that if they knew.
As for LCN, i think they might come around, i still dont understand why they choose to run with LaF a few sets ago, but, oh well.
I`m down with doing a coalition pact (it was my proposal :P)
Need to choose one person to do them, and write it up.
We have no pact with LaF(after they "voided" ? something ? ours this set, also no pact with SoF or Rival, so neither is an issue for SOL.

Makinso
Posts: 43
May/14/12 22:29:38
I agree with arsenal here.
LCN first is the way to go. LCN has been very courteous with all of us here and they have DPs with some of the tags on our side. Giving them the friendly treatment into pacting us all will probably your best shot. IF that doesn't work we can always resort to other "motivational tactics" to have them pact us. Might it be threatening might it be handing them a more lucrative deal. - Personally I feel MD or Evo should talk to them about this as they are friend through their DP with them. Make it come off as trying to protect them from the onslaught coming. We don't want them to end up in the kitchen sink war as they've been nothing but honourable in their affairs.
Rival - They NEED to be killed. Rivals undying love for LaF can only be reverted by having them die .... preferably multiple times. PGs support for LaF is mainly based on the fact that LaF could provide her tag with safety from the likes of us. We need to show them while LaF can provide at times they can't guarantee that safety.
SoF - SoF is in a split as usual. I'm not sure they want to continue supporting LaF then again their appearances on AT are sure not making me want to support them. I'm divided on this. Personally after all they've done they deserve a spanking. Crushing them like LaF I see no need for. We should hit them upcoming set though. AFter that we can re discuss.

Arsenal
Posts: 85
May/15/12 0:30:15
I get the feeling personally that Helmet doesn't want to defend LaF. I think he like I is very much anti cheat. You would have to think the other leaders who have been so closely aligned with LaF are lobbying hard to maintain the relationship with the scare tactic that if sof pull away from laf they'll get gangbanged.

Dr. KJ [HoW]
Posts: 2636
May/15/12 1:04:40
I get that feeling from Helmet too. But its all the other leaders that are the problem.

Detmer
Posts: 43
May/15/12 23:39:28
Well, SoF will have to decide what they want to do. Once this all blows over PDM is out of 'this'. Sure, we aren't dropping allies or anything like that, but we aren't going to collude in the future and we'll just be DPs doing our thing. Of course we whenever the need arises we'll work this closely on planning, but we want to be mutual allies, not a coalition per se.
___________________________

Jiman
Posts: 23
Strike Plan.
Jun/05/12 3:50:25
The reset is about to begin, and we need to finalize for sure what we are going to do.
Going about what has been said so far, this is what is being said so far.
SOL/Evo FS LaF OOP, on day 4.
SoF/Rival will FS SOL/Evo in response.
MD/PDM/TIE FS SoF/Rival.
If day 4 isnt agreed upon, say something and lets decide.
Majority of SOL atm is for OOP, dont know about Maki atm.
Evo, did you guys want to OOP war?
I want to know for sure so I know what I can tell SOL on how to prepare.

Arsenal
Posts: 85
Jun/05/12 4:03:13
Don't really know why you are going oop but I guess that's up to you and evo

Jiman
Posts: 23
Jun/05/12 4:10:45
Would be nice to hear from Maki on it, but if not, thats the route we will be taking.

Arsenal
Posts: 85
Jun/05/12 6:27:27
MD won't be ready for war until end of week two, so just don't expect assistance immediately if you go so early

Dr. KJ [HoW]
Posts: 2636
Jun/05/12 6:29:21
I am not keen on OOP either, but I really do expect SoF will push LaF to hit us.

Dr. KJ [HoW]
Posts: 2636
Jun/05/12 6:51:39
Well it aint gonna work if we hit super early sof fs us and md/pdm arent ready... Hmmmm

Dr. KJ [HoW]
Posts: 2636
Jun/05/12 6:52:25
This needs to be resolved ASAP so we can decide what to do

Dr. Rossoneri [IA]
Posts: 2031
Jun/05/12 9:23:17
I would rather hit OOP, getting the FS in is important, but it's not gonna work if MD aren't ready by end of week 1.

Dr. anoniem [HFA]
Posts: 7669
Jun/05/12 10:01:36
I also disagree with day 4 oop.
at least make it day 10 FS, so MD are ready.
or if MD can run commie and mainly tyr indy/farmer hybrids so they can be ready by day 10 too.

Arsenal
Posts: 85
Jun/05/12 10:03:24
Your fs you make the decision just saying we won't be rdy

Dr. Sych [Destocking Whore]
Posts: 5583
Jun/05/12 10:07:20
just give an FS date and i'll try to come up with something. but here are the instructions i'd advice you to give your members for now.
1. members should not run any turns until instructions are given (when we provide startups)
2. in case of getting FSed, members should be vigilant - stay in protection (stop with 99 turns played) and save turns, always have 50 turns on hand
3. have spies, troops, tanks & turrets when coming out of protection

Jiman
Posts: 23
Jun/05/12 13:50:45
Glad these final issues are being resolved.
I dont want to do an OOP war though if one of our allies will not be ready for it.
I think a 10 day war is the absolute latest we can have it though.
If we are agreed for a ten day war by the majority then, ill pass the message along.

Dr. KJ [HoW]
Posts: 2636
Jun/05/12 14:16:39
Evo are setting up to hit on day 7. SOL should either plan to hit OOP or wait until the same time as us. MD/PDM should really be hitting SoF before one of us take an FS, likewise with TIE>RIVAL.

Dr. KJ [HoW]
Posts: 2636
Jun/05/12 14:17:30
We will be running a mixture of Commies and Tyr Indy/Farmer Hybrids.

Dr. Rossoneri [IA]
Posts: 2031
Jun/05/12 14:24:34
I think at the very latest, MD/PDM should be going for Day 9 or Day 10. Day 8 preferably.
Obviously CI for breakers, if techers are a must, it's possible to get them set up for day 8/9 with a high warfare tech emphasis.
We need to coordinate this!

Praetor
Posts: 19
Jun/05/12 19:07:48
SOL will go on day 10.
game on

Jiman
Posts: 23
Jun/05/12 19:56:59
So Evo is setting up to hit day 7?
*pokes Praetor*
We should hit with Evo for sure :O

Jiman
Posts: 23
Jun/06/12 1:05:52
SOLers will be running a 8-10 day war strat it seems.

Balin
Posts: 15
Jun/06/12 2:05:45
PDM feels the same as MD.
Dr. KJ [HoW]

Posts: 2636
Jun/06/12 2:13:27
If we wait that long, we will have SoF/LaF/Rival/Possibly RD FSing us.... I don't wish to give them that sort of advantage....
Running tech starts is not going to work.

Dr. KJ [HoW]
Posts: 2636
Jun/06/12 2:14:32
It will be a massive tactical error.
To be honest the best thing we can do is just 4 alliance OOP FS LaF. Total gangbang them dead in a few days.... what can SoF do then? Hit all 4 of us? lol

Arsenal
Posts: 85
Jun/06/12 2:30:24
We don't want to FS LaF. We have other scores to settle.
We are willing to honor our FDP but its not a FOP. And MD doesn't hit OOP.
I doubt they will FS us - if they do we call in the cavalry.
Even with an FS I don't think they beat our no's. Anyway if they are fsing oop we'll see it in there country starts.
Run your fs earlier so you can counter an fs. It'll just mean if MD/pdm have to enter it'll be a couple of days gap. (Ideally we'd aim to go within 24-48 hours to negate their fs)

Dr. KJ [HoW]
Posts: 2636
Jun/06/12 2:39:07
Why are we all coming up with different timeframes now? SoF hit us OOP, LaF have hit SOL and Evo super early.... they are prepared to go in early. We have to be ahead of them.
I don't see why any of us need to take an FS.

Arsenal
Posts: 85
Jun/06/12 2:47:54
Weve said about 3 times its your fs - fs when you want. I'm just telling you given MD's strats available and what we've told members to go we're only capable of going to war in the second week.
If you gave us fast strats to run for oop and told us maybe we would hhave changed our strategy earlier.
We'll come in asked as soon as we can be practically ready to do so - what else can I do?

+++++A Bunch of fluff about various war strats, blah blah. Literally 20+ posts between 3 guys.+++++

Archaic
Posts: 39
Jun/06/12 20:31:08
Why do we think they are going to hit oop? Just because they did it once under different circumstances does not necessarily mean they want to start a full server war on day 4. Let's see how their country builds look.

Arsenal
Posts: 85
Jun/06/12 23:52:43
We can hit everyone - but would prefer to hit rival and rd (we also have some scores to settle).

Dr. KJ [HoW]
Posts: 2636
Jun/07/12 0:01:42
Arsenal, I feel like SoF may need your attention, I'd imagine when SOL and Evo hit LaF, SoF will hit us, then we will need massive help. Ideally SoF would be hit at the same time we hit LaF so neither SOL or Evo have to take an FS.

Arsenal
Posts: 85
Jun/07/12 1:20:39
Depends on the numbers if you guys are 90 and laf are 70 then sof won't join.
I think if laf tag 50 you've got some thinking to do.
Pdm are tie are also available presumably.

Dr. KJ [HoW]
Posts: 2636
Jun/07/12 6:04:39
If LaF tag 50 I am going to lol, but they are going as slow as us at tagging up... the suspense!

Dr. KJ [HoW]
Posts: 2636
Jun/07/12 6:19:55
^They surely can't have dropped 40 members, but perhaps if they have dropped to 60~ SOL may want to take them alone?

Arsenal
Posts: 85
Jun/07/12 7:08:46
Let's see where they drop out and make a call no point in reverting to their tactics of gangbang we have to be the bigger men.
Take. 20% no. Advantage or something and the FS.

Archaic
Posts: 39
Jun/07/12 15:29:28
Arsenal, don't read this as me trying to encourage a gangbang, but . . .
I dont want this to sound as if PDM has an axe to grind with Sof (though obviously, we do) but if the server war does not happen this set because Laf does not call in SoF, then I fear that the coalitions will become entrenched and this will loom over the server for a while. Perhaps it would be better to pull the band-aid off quickly and force the issue while we have consensus so that everyone can start to put this behind us.

+++++Lots of MD waffling due to Arsenals lack of leadership ability, Some Red-X stuff from TIE that I lost, then some last minute confusion and Sol yolo FS Laf while everyone else was stuck in the weeds. I can't find it either and nobody would give a fluff. The rest of the coalition war was fairly public. We were wrong about RD, they came in strong for Laf/Sof. Our coalition showed early promise, but we could not unify (mostly MD) and we were ultimately vanquished after over a year of wars. Shortly thereafter RD was mass deleted and forcefully disbanded for yet another Boxcar hacking.++++++++++

Yeah, these are the events that helped make my decision to quit Alliance so much easier. After resets of pact "manipulation" (I'm not going to mention the pact-breaking that actually took place, because that would just restart old arguments), and random FSing on Evolution for no apparent reason (multiple times), then the whole cheating scandal in which LaF somehow got to keep their allies, despite those allies supposedly being anti-cheat (SoF, I'm looking at you)...

I looked at the numbers on each side, and realized that more countries fought for/with those that cheated than those that were defending themselves against those that had cheated, and I was done.

A question I would like to ask everyone about those days: When Evo was pushing 70 members, where did they go after Evo had gotten destroyed by LaF for those two resets? I don't recall seeing other alliances' numbers reflecting Evo's.

Pretty awesome stuff. Laf remains the largest and most dedicated netting alliance and pdm and evo = dead.

Think it has something to do with our members only caring about numbers and not so much with the drama that took those other two down self implosion lane.

Rejoice

I think it has more to do with the fact that somehow LaF always managed to coerce the schoolyard bully to be on their side. That and that even after 18 years, most LaF would still rather camp the market in IRC then go out and talk to a girl. I no longer consider PDMs exit from the game to be as much about defeat as enlightenment.

;)

Moral of the story?
Winners should always write the history books.
Only the strong survive.
LAF = Winning (still...)

April 2012 - May 2016 = 4 years. :P

Also... drama!


Also also... Evo is not dead. Their members are all over the place.

Lol

both archaic and red x are in laf now, who's next?? :p

The current core of LaF has over 50% members that was not even in LaF during those resets discussed above.

It speaks volume of LaF's ability to recruit.

And at the same time Laf has more old old vets than any other alliance. Best of both worlds

Cheaters have always prospered in this game.

I can assure you that I am not in Laf. I have not played a set on the Alliance server since the Spartan war as either Archaic or anyone else. My hatred of Laf still burns very very hot. The day I share a tag with H4x will be a very cold day in hell indeed.

So many this

10/10 can confirm this is a cancerous thread
:P

Oh look another lafer!

too much text.

Archaic
Posts: 39
May/10/12 1:07:39
so TIE-Rival would be a side war with no involvement the coaltion blocks?
Arsenal, I have kind of assumed that everything I've said in here will someday end up on AT.

Archaic wins!

Wow, that right there shows a profound lack of understanding about how MD works.

Granted, MD doesn't publicize its inner workings that much, so some forgiveness on that front.

In the past 3 years I've dealt with many Alliances on many levels and in my experience PDM had the most emo leadership. I felt sorry for them for a long time as they liked to play the victim card a lot, but after a while you eventually work out that they made themselves victims.

You guys still playing TEQ?



The problem with Arsenal was that while he was leading MD, MD didn't work. No MD heads even knew they were in the coalition until hours before the planned FS. MD was not the problem, Arsenal was - although MDs glacial decision making process certainly did not help matters.

Way to much reading in the morning!

I have a feeling the "I've never been in LaF" club would have a small number... >.<

Lemme start... Never have I ever been in LaF :P

I'd call that analysis about 50/50. I was VP under Arsenal at that time. I knew. Others knew. But not everyone knew.

What is unique about MD is that we have elections - thus new leadership - frequently. Additionally, we will have a Heads team from 3-6 ppl, changing frequently. Then we have our oldest members, who often carry additional leadership responsibilities (like WCL, etc).

So that's a lot of people to "inform" about a "top-secret" coalition at a time when MD was being actively hacked and our entire site was no longer trusted.

Certainly, springing a very unusual war scenario on leaders/members with very little heads-up is a challenge. That's also why MD was clear about when we'd be ready - and no sooner.

me neither nor Morwin etc (i could prolly name handful players who haven't been in laf).

Didn't Anom leak this years ago?

if he did then its been deleted.