I guess you don't have to pay attention to that thread anymore!

Yeah, it's pretty unfortunate.

There really was nothing in that specific thread which justified its being closed. And since the admins offered no explanation, I can't help but wonder at the veracity of the claims being made within it.

Had a reasonable explanation been offered, I feel that I would have happily given the game admins the benefit of the doubt. Had the thread been left open, I feel that such a magnanimous gesture would have been proof that there was no truth to the claims.

Unfortunately, as things lie, I can't help but feel sympathetic towards the claims BiffBuff was making.

*Edit*
I spoke too soon. Pang posted an explanation right after I posted this. I guess he closed the thread then wrote it. I haven't read it yet, but it is now there.

*Edit 2*
I've now read Pang's response, and am happy to give the admins the benefit of the doubt. It was much appreciated. (though I still don't see why the thread actually needed to be closed... a far more effective response would probably be to leave it open and let the community police itself. We won't let idiotic admin bashing stand for too long).

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

Pang did not close the thread.

The professional way to deal with trolls is to delete their posts and ban them. If a troll continues to make the same thread over and over, watering it down slightly after every time it's deleted or closed, why should the one that's just right according to you be allowed to stay the boards? The motivation behind it remains the same.

If you feel that there is an issue to be discussed, you are free to make a thread about it. Just don't lie, insult anyone, or make random accusations.

Well, I wrote a post for the other thread, but then it was closed. I was basically going to say the same things Pang said but with a harsher tone. Actually I have it in my history still so here are some excerpts:

BiffBuff: I thought about responding to your first thread, but it was so inflammatory I didn't want to have to read it again for responses. Maybe if you kept your comments civil you wouldn't have such a problem...

I don't have a problem with the comments of the admins/developers. I think they do a good job of keeping their personal opinions separate from their gaming duties. [blah blah blah, Pang said it better] So, I would say they do administer the game professionally.

That said, they were first and foremost players. Some of them are leaders of their alliances, and of course they're going to have some thoughts on server politics and even the direction of the game. There were discussions many months ago about the difference between LaF-member Pang and Administrator Pang. He can be both, and it is fairly clear by context which role he has when he posts.

Obviously, you're a bit hurt that so many on this server look down on SoL for being the jerks (in game and in forum) that they are. I like that the administrators are willing to call you out on gameplay which they believe is bad for the server and the game. I enjoy the sometimes snippy remarks to your inane trolling babble. It brings joy into the otherwise dismal and pointless threads you typically make. Keep on trucking Devs. You're doing a great job in my book, professionally and personally.

My mistake. As I said, I hadn't read the post yet. I just updated quickly here. He mentioned in his post that it wasn't him who'd closed the thread, I just hadn't got there yet.


I think that this is one potentially reasonable method of dealing with trolls. There are many arguments that could be made as to whether or not it's truly the best method. But I think that discussion is a red herring more than anything else.


I think that judging people by motivation is extremely difficult. To state definitively that someone's motivation is the same from one moment to the other is a skill beyond me, so it seems a poor way to make decisions.

As to why a watered down post should be allowed to stay: Sometimes trolls have genuine grievances. They may be upset enough that the manner in which they originally express these grievances is inappropriate. In those cases, I think it's fair to delete such posts. However, if they then express those same grievances in a manner which is acceptable by community standards, I think that they deserve to be addressed.

To do otherwise indicates that the individual, rather than the inappropriate behaviour, is being targeted.

And on the issue of why it should be allowed at the point where *I* think the decorum is "just right": I don't know for a fact that it should be. But I can't express any opinion other than my own. I also feel that most people would agree that I'm a reasonable person, therefore the level of decorum that I believe is "just right" is probably in a very similar range to that of other reasonable people.

That strikes me as being exactly what BiffBuff did. He may not have been correct, but nothing he did in the last thread of his to be closed struck me as any of those three things. As I stated before, I don't think that the fact that he had previously tried to address the issue in an inappropriate manner is cause to refuse to address it when he meets the level of decorum expected on these forums.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

the only reason I didn't leave the thread open was because I wasn't the one that closed it in the first place. I've been out all evening celebrating with friends and family for some non-game issues.

if people want to bash me about being an admin, bring it on -- I've dealt with the FBI and the media in the last week

does anyone actually think that I would back down from a fight with trolls where I know the admins are in the right? I've got nothing to hide, as much as some folks want me to :)
Also, did all the trolls miss the memo where I'm no longer affiliated with LaF, short of finishing up my existing country? I announced that back in November and I announced it again when it was time to step back. So what is that flaming even about? so I get flamed for playing AND for not playing now? That doesn't seem fair... or logical.

what I said in the post are my true beliefs though -- I am VERY proud of the admin staff in how we've both built the game and in terms of how we operate it. If you have a problem with us, bring it to us in a constructive, mature format through the proper private channels. Don't come to AT to bash us.

We're a reasonable group of individuals who put lots of effort into the game during what little time we're able to dedicate to it now-a-days. Forcing us to spend that time dealing with this kind of crap is a disservice to this whole community.

You should have seen the first thread :p
it had all of slag's criteria :)

that's why the 2nd and 3rd were shut down.

The only two admins I saw online were MrFord and Slagpit. And since I have personal issues with Slagpit and his threats of suiciding on my alliance, I'll have to assume it was him.

mods can close threads, not just admins

there are 3 overall admins, realistically....

there are 2 more forum admins now that zarc is helping out

there are between 5 and 10 active game mods, all of whom have forum moderating privileges

I lost all my board perms when a few changes were made to the perm system to correct an error. Although I only had perms kn the non-server boards.

The only time I have ever used my perms was to mess with Martian on the patron board, hense why I havnt made a stink about losing them unintentionally.

Even if I did have perms I would probably stray away from using them because of all the hellfire that comes down oncorum mods when they make a unpopular decision.

I think something important has been lost here

The admins and developers and mods do not get paid for all the hard work they put in.

The players do not pay to play this game. While this game is open to anyone and everyone, it is not a guranteed right to play this game. It is a privalage. If you abuse and constantly harass the very people that put a ton of time into keeping this game up and running at zero financial gain, then I believe you SHOULD be banned and should also take a long hard look in the mirror and re-evaluate what it is you think you were trying to accomplish.

That is all I have to say about that

mrford, I only saw that your name was italicized. I didn't know whether or not it was you. Like I said, I have my reasons to think the mod I mentioned would do anything like that.

I realize that they do not get paid. That is one of the great things Mehul did. He did the patron system, I believe, to allow him to get some residual income. Right?

I like the idea of having some income in the game. If people pay to support the game, it will mean they are far more invested.

I also agree that mods do what they can. I didn't say it was a bad thing that the thread was closed. Although Fooglmog made a very compelling argument. I was merely stating who I saw online at the time it was closed.

The game isn't actually good enough to "pay for". The only reason I'm still playing is due to the community, not the game itself.

*sigh*

I feel the same way. this type of social gamins is meant to be free.

what we want to offer is an enhanced out-of-game/integrated experience for those who do enjoy the game and want to take their playing to the next level.

I'm not sure if you (or others, for that matter) read my Patron threads, but the ideas presented there were really good. They give value to being a patron while not making it so patrons have an advantage over others. Other games may have moved to a pay-to-win model, but this game isn't one of them. The same thing went on on the FFA boards, and there were lots of good ideas brainstormed.

as long as we don't start becoming mafia wars, I'm game for whatever!