is it possible... - Earth Empires Forum

crazyserb

Member
539

Oct 19th 2010, 16:06:58

to actually have one set where every alliance actually tried to net ?

its pretty obvious that there is a big number of people here that would just like to net, so what is it anymore that is driving the war alliances to keep warring set after set?

lets put aside the arguments of who is "killing the game" and just try to understand that in a way you are both killing the game for one another and that to be fair everyone should get to do what they enjoy in this game

we should make every other set a netting set , and then the other set would be a pact less set meant for war:)

that way in the war set everyone would be war ready and it would be a server war every time:)

am i dreaming?:)

Ruthie

Member
2641

Oct 19th 2010, 16:52:18

Personally I find netting to be extremely boring.

I know its necessary from time to time but I dont enjoy it.

~Ruthless~
Ragnarok's EEVIL Lady

Lord Slayer

Member
601

Oct 19th 2010, 16:54:45

I'm in 1000% agreement with ruth. No suprise there though:P

TAN

Member
3439

Oct 19th 2010, 16:59:31

it's not possible, because only the warring clans war for no reason.

the netting clans war over principle, such as retal policy -- and there will always be a war on principle.

FREEEEEDOM!!!

Steeps

Member
430

Oct 19th 2010, 17:17:15

I tried it once, really hated it, the atmosphere, the lack of action, knowing there was nothing more to come. Netting for me is like being in a managed retirement home where you sit around and do fluffall, maybe see if there's anything happening outside the window, hoping either you'll be put out of your misery or for family to visit so you can hear that they're doing well. Hoarding onto what wealth you have left, you can't do anything with it and at the end all you do is spend your gathered wealth on what could have been an awesome party when you were younger.

People have no need to speak to eachother apart from to try and compare grandkids and their jobs. It's a lonely dull boring life and I feel sorry for new blood coming to the game where it's all set out strats and tools and calculators and very little interaction with other players.

War gets people talking, war gets people working together, I'd rather spend my stock on a good killrun anyday than to try and be the top of some table at the end of the set. Enjoy the journey, not the end result.

H4xOr WaNgEr

Forum Moderator
1981

Oct 19th 2010, 17:37:07

I would argue that what you are describing isn't netgaining Steeps, it is simply "playing for the sake of it".

To netgain is to actively try to place well/win.

Pang

Administrator
Game Development
5735

Oct 19th 2010, 17:37:23

I'd love to see everyone net for a round and see how they stack up, but I don't think it'll ever happen.

I support everyone's right to play the way they want to, but I also feel that as members of the community -- and especially for alliance leaders -- we have a responsibility to to try and create an environment where everyone can have fun doing what they want to do the majority of the time.

Although, perhaps it would be a good "taste of your own medicine" to force some fighting alliances to net for a few rounds in a row.... see how their membership does when they're tied up in perpetual netting. :p

I expect if war alliances actually netted in the truest sense of the word, they would enjoy it. It's way more challenging to net well than to fight. And when you are netting against the best (ie a set where LaF, Evo, Omega and NA all net) it's even more fun/challenging :)

-=Pang=-
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Ruthie

Member
2641

Oct 19th 2010, 17:38:14

and some of us find that pretty boring, as Steeps described above

~Ruthless~
Ragnarok's EEVIL Lady

H4xOr WaNgEr

Forum Moderator
1981

Oct 19th 2010, 17:45:05

but what steeps described above doesn't represent what one does when they are competing to win.

At least not if they are actually trying.

dustfp

Member
710

Oct 19th 2010, 17:56:05

Originally posted by H4xOr WaNgEr:

I would argue that what you are describing isn't netgaining Steeps, it is simply "playing for the sake of it".

To netgain is to actively try to place well/win.

Yeah, I'm with H4xOr here. When your clan as a whole is aiming to be #1, it can actually generate a lot of activity and buzz

-fudgepuppy
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Junky

Member
1815

Oct 19th 2010, 18:07:25

damn Tree hugging netters, and thier lets net a set in peace Ideas.. nuke the trees

I Maybe Crazy... But atleast I'm crazy.

Junky

Member
1815

Oct 19th 2010, 18:09:02

Originally posted by Pang:

Erm well I can net while Land grabbing the hell outa a country... they might call it suiciding though...

I Maybe Crazy... But atleast I'm crazy.

Shinigami

Member
685

Oct 19th 2010, 18:20:34

I declared war on principle once. Was hard to kill!

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,264

Oct 19th 2010, 18:42:03

I'm with H4 here, actual competitive netting is a very intensive process that - at least in my experience - requires as much or more organization than war; with the caveat that in war most of the organizing is done by a couple War heads, and in netting it's done top to bottom in the alliance by people training or teaching or helping....

Finally did the signature thing.

llaar

Member
11,319

Oct 19th 2010, 18:46:50

disagreements always happen

its not fair to not let a clan settle a disagreement with war

Marshal

Member
32,589

Oct 19th 2010, 19:27:23

not possible since there's always some tags who want to war and some alliances make few grabs too much and get FS'd.

only way to enforce all to net would be limiting attacks from 1 tag to other to 5 per day and limit attack-range from 1/12 to 1/2 or all alliances pacting eachothers and that's basically impossible.

Patience: Yep, I'm with ELK and Marshal.

ELKronos: Patty is more hairy.

Gallery: K at least I am to my expectations now.

LadyGrizz boobies is fine

NOW3P: Morwen is a much harsher mistress than boredom....

crazyserb

Member
539

Oct 19th 2010, 19:36:39

well in a netting set we don't necessarily need to net, i mean every alliance has to set out to win the avg NW crown from the start but i didn't say that a war might not break out over the fight for land....

i think its possible and it wont be as boring as people think...

and junky i hate netting as well but if it was actually competitive and every alliance cared about winning then i am sure that i will enjoy it

crazyserb

Member
539

Oct 19th 2010, 19:38:43

plus its not very nice to be selfish and ignore the wishes of pretty much half the alliances in the server

its pretty ghey to plan to net and then get FS'ed while running some theo techer or something.....

remember kids we are trying to preserve the game not destroy it....

mdevol

Member
3243

Oct 19th 2010, 21:34:49

netting is for panks...

Surely what a man does when he is caught off his guard is the best evidence as to what sort of man he is. - C.S. Lewis

Ruthie

Member
2641

Oct 19th 2010, 21:44:52

If we were all forced to net on the server, I wouldnt play.

I am not saying that the tags I have been in war ever reset, we didnt war in EEVIL until the reset I wasnt there.

I still build a country that can retal, or can war because you just never know whats gonna happen, and I end at a decent rank. But a contender for top 10 I will never be and I'm okay with that.

~Ruthless~
Ragnarok's EEVIL Lady

Junky

Member
1815

Oct 19th 2010, 22:12:54

Without wars the Oilers would be done.. and techers too... lets face it.. Netters need warmongers to beable to net.... cause 1000 farmers isn't gonna cut it.

I Maybe Crazy... But atleast I'm crazy.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,264

Oct 19th 2010, 22:22:32

wait what? techers would be gone without war? what do you think techers tech? agri/bus/res mainly?

Finally did the signature thing.

Junky

Member
1815

Oct 19th 2010, 22:27:10

thats good.. in the begining... when people do a tech start for thier countries... but I can't see them doing good... with Everyone netting.. without the need for SDI, Spy, Warfare, and the likes.. it won't go to far.. they'd probly have to switch strats at some point..

atleast thats what I see.. I've never been a techer.. but in war, I've always had to buy some tech every now and again when gaining land from SSing for land kill targets. maybe more goes into it.. but with noone warring that strat might be as dead as netters wanting to war.

I Maybe Crazy... But atleast I'm crazy.

BobbyATA

Member
2384

Oct 19th 2010, 23:05:20

I think the admins should set up a server with no GS/AB/BR or missiles, at least for one set, partially as just an experiment to see what would occur. Obviously if we tried to do a net set on the alliance server, some people would have lots of fun suiciding and ruining the fun.

I think the alliance server should be a war server, but it should also be a net server. How? By cleverly developing a way for the winner of war to enjoy spoils of victory to a degree so great as to possibly be able to achieve higher NW end of set than had they never gone to war. Don't ask me how to do this tho=)...

Steeps

Member
430

Oct 19th 2010, 23:11:41

If there was no war, there would be no netting as war strats rely on selling food to netters to stock, to buy goods to kill with. No war, no buying goods, no one selling food as everyone wants it to stock with, food rockets in price but no one wants to sell it, people start playing at losing cash over 2bn because nothing is worth stocking anymore, otherwise everyone just runs a farmer with high millitary tech then sells private at the end... and again no one wins because there's nothing on the market to buy so it's the first person to destock and buy out their private market.

Netting is a game of risk, run the lowest costing country gaining land efficiently and pray to fluff someone else gets ruined by another country and not you. Take away the threat of wars and no one feels the need to defend and the game becomes stale.

BobbyATA

Member
2384

Oct 20th 2010, 0:31:14

lol pretty much every step of your argument is wrong steeps

ponderer

Member
678

Oct 20th 2010, 0:38:48

you can hit 80mil nw in this game playing just 5 minutes a day.

m0m0rific

BobbyATA

Member
2384

Oct 20th 2010, 0:46:46

actually you can go well over 100M NW playing that way if you are lucky enough not to get hit...and thats before the changes for this set which will increase NW.

mrford

Member
21,378

Oct 20th 2010, 1:44:34

Make a war button like utopia had!

Yeah, I said it. The way it worked is there has do be suficient agressive actions between 2 opponents, once that point was reached, one side got the "war button" and only then was certain special attacks made avaloable. The leader/tagholder was the only one who got the war button. Once the war was winding down, the leader of either aide had the opportunity to surrender officially and war wins were officially tallied.

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Thomas

Member
1763

Oct 20th 2010, 1:55:49

I was going to post the same thing Steeps and Junky did. The markets would be crap. Cashers would be the only thing worthwhile.

BobbyATA

Member
2384

Oct 20th 2010, 2:10:03

they are saying food prices would be sky high b/c nobody would be supplying food to the markets. And you agree with them and say cashers would be the only thing worthwhile. lol...

archaic

Member
7018

Oct 20th 2010, 2:12:29

It would be like any other market, good netters would adjust their play and figure out how to make money. Remember, there HAVE been sets where there were no real significant wars fought on many occasions - some netters profited and some tanked.

I have sleep walked a fasc/farmer to 100+M on several occasions while carrying enough defense to hold onto my all-x acres. I doubt that would suffer too much in a peaceful set. Matter of fact, that was without the private market destocking changes we have now. If I ever get to net again, I would love to see how hard I could push a farmer. I got a top 5 on team last set and had to quit 36 hours early.

I doubt if slaggy could have cranked out a 100M all-x commie in a set with no war, but hell, picking your netting stratagy each set is always a crapshoot.

I would love an all-net set, just to see how the numbers shook out.

Cheating Mod Hall of Shame: Dark Morbid, Turtle Crawler, Sov

Junky

Member
1815

Oct 20th 2010, 2:49:28

Originally posted by BobbyATA:

they are saying food prices would be sky high b/c nobody would be supplying food to the markets. And you agree with them and say cashers would be the only thing worthwhile. lol...

I didn't say the food prices would be sky high :-P I just said Farmer would almost be the most logical of the strats to use... but I'm a farmer.. so I only know how farm strats work.. to a degree :-P I just said Teching would be shotty.. given noone would really need the other tech, used for war.. and even then the business and agri tech would be sparce due to people teching in the begining..

ps.. also the Oiler strat would be done.. no war, no need for oil.. and people can create the oil they'll need for random grabs..

Edited By: Junky on Oct 20th 2010, 2:53:02
See Original Post

I Maybe Crazy... But atleast I'm crazy.

Pang

Administrator
Game Development
5735

Oct 20th 2010, 3:33:02

Originally posted by BobbyATA:

they are saying food prices would be sky high b/c nobody would be supplying food to the markets. And you agree with them and say cashers would be the only thing worthwhile. lol...

We haven't coded free market economics into the game yet.

-=Pang=-
Earth Empires Staff
pangaea [at] earthempires [dot] com

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CKHustler

Member
253

Oct 20th 2010, 3:52:38

nah, if everyone was netting the techs that go towards cashers/farmers would stay higher all set and techers would do just fine. I think the changes to the netters would be minimal overall. Food would still be on the market as farmers need to sell their food to run turns. Military would still be around as alliances always like having some commie/indys for early set retalling capabilities and if there isn't enough, private markets would suffice with military tech. Military strat tech would also be bought more than during a war set as netters have more money to spend and want military costs down all set (this is especially true with the new change to selling on private). Sure SDI/Spy/medical techs aren't going to be teched, but that just means that more of the netting techs are bought.

gwagers

Member
1065

Oct 20th 2010, 9:44:46

Originally posted by BobbyATA:

I think the alliance server should be a war server, but it should also be a net server. How? By cleverly developing a way for the winner of war to enjoy spoils of victory to a degree so great as to possibly be able to achieve higher NW end of set than had they never gone to war. Don't ask me how to do this tho=)...

I think BlackMamba had something to say on this subject in another thread.

http://forums.earthempires.com/...ags-an-endangered-species

Peloponnese (PEHL-oh-puh-NEES): a mythical land of cheesecake

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Who has time for that? BLAST THEM ALL!

H4xOr WaNgEr

Forum Moderator
1981

Oct 20th 2010, 14:12:10

I don't see how a lack of fighting would kill the markets what so ever.

It may depress the mid round military units (over supply) but at the same time probably not, as I assume less people would run indies (given that they stink).

Techers would be fine, why would everyone suddenly run tech starts if they are netting? Do all the netters run tech starts now? no....

Tech markets are weaker now than they have been in the past because of fighters, not netters.

Its the fighters that are making 50% + of their countries run techers, something that netters typically wouldn't do because diversifying strategy selection reduces market risks and increases the expected value of the final ANW...

crazyserb

Member
539

Oct 20th 2010, 14:25:20

i dont understand people who are like " ok im just gonna quit if we net"

what a bunch of babies. like it will really really kill you

sh!t if you didnt quit when your alliance gets FS'ed and you lose your country that you have worked hard on then how are you gonna quit competing for the highest nw??

i hate people who never want to try anything for the sake of others,

im just trying to figure out a way to make this game fun for everyone and to try new stuff

and trust me if i am willing to netgain then im sure everyone here wouldn't die of boredom , now all you need to do is stop behaving like children and calm your ego's a litlle bit

iZarcon

Administrator
Game Development
2150

Oct 20th 2010, 16:19:04

heh. I'm not a bad netgainer but on alliance server i like to war.

-iZarcon
EE Developer

http://www.letskillstuff.org

Ruthie

Member
2641

Oct 20th 2010, 17:41:35

Originally posted by crazyserb:

I wouldnt play if we were all FORCED to netgain. I didnt say anything about quitting.

I have played this game for over 13 years and yes, I have netted and yes, I dont enjoy it. Its not about trying something new and it certainly isnt about ego or childishness.

I am not saying not to explore that option. So stop with the namecalling and saying you are just trying to make the game fun for everyone. Netting isnt fun for me and again I wouldnt play that reset if thats what we were made to do.

~Ruthless~
Ragnarok's EEVIL Lady

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,264

Oct 20th 2010, 18:09:53

join Evo for a set to find out how Netting can be FUN :)

Finally did the signature thing.

Murf

Member
1224

Oct 20th 2010, 19:03:19

meh i net on the other servers, only had one proper finish in alliance that i can recall lol and it was a restart

archaic

Member
7018

Oct 20th 2010, 19:04:36

I used to only play this game to war, give me a high SPAL and a million dead civs and I was happy. I was a mainstay on kill teams - I would jump tags if my clan netted too much (sound familer). Now, I would much prefer to net with an occasional set as a retaller. I just don't get the joy from warchat that I used to - it seems like a chore now. I wonder how much the 'graying' of the player base has changed server politics. I know that planning kill runs around my kids homework sure is a pain in the ass!

Ruth - you are getting grumpier in your old age. Considering where you started from - that is impressive!

I think that EVO should have to boot either slaggy or qz, if some disaster were to befall EVO - EE would lose the bulk of its mathaletes.

Cheating Mod Hall of Shame: Dark Morbid, Turtle Crawler, Sov

crazyserb

Member
539

Oct 20th 2010, 19:10:01

didn't mean to call you any names....i just don't get your mentality

you should understand that sometimes you should make a sacrifice for the better of the community

for example this set a bunch of people are gonna lose their countries even if they set out to net, what if they all decide to just skip a set ? who the heck are all these pacted warring alliances going to fight?

netters don't mind to war as long as they get to net sometimes
warring clans will quit if they have to net

conclusion

netting clans>warring clans

Murf

Member
1224

Oct 20th 2010, 19:11:40

lol crazyserb that aint true at all

SoF wouldnt quit if they had to net, even though we specialise in war.

crazyserb

Member
539

Oct 20th 2010, 19:14:36

lol ok murf good to hear it:)

Junky

Member
1815

Oct 20th 2010, 19:54:33

Originally posted by H4xOr WaNgEr:

Good netters do Tech start... it gives them a bonus to thier early netting.. people would be fools not the Tech start.. I don't like to tech, but I still Tech start at the begining to drive my Food bonus up.. I'm not saying it'll be a total bust... Just the Buying of Tech would be hella lower then what it is now.. it wouldn't be a viable option to use to netgain.. just like Oilers.. it wouldn't be viable.. sure you'll get afew people buying oil.. but in the end you'd lose more net then anything when your oil returns cause it wasn't all bought out.. all strats would get hit hard.. thats why the Netgainers need war mongers.. it completes the Cycle needed for all people..

oilers need wars to sell thier oil, Techers need wars to sell thier war tech.. even farmers need wars.. not sure about the Cashers.. thier strat is probly not gonna change with or without wars.. I could see alot of people suiciding the top 10 to help thier allies get in the top 10..

I Maybe Crazy... But atleast I'm crazy.

Pang

Administrator
Game Development
5735

Oct 20th 2010, 20:08:08

Originally posted by Junky:

Originally posted by H4xOr WaNgEr:

ya, no netting strats require tech
nor do netters require any oil at all
netters don't do kill runs either
and netters would NEVER fight a war on their own volition! :p

I think this debate is kind of pointless. It's not about someone getting to have fun at the expense of someone else's fun, it should be a discussion about how we can ALL have fun the vast majority of the time.

The solution for that is for fighters to fight fighters more often (who enjoy fighting) which will allow netters to move into a position where they are able to control their own destiny to more of a degree.

The main reason why netting focused clans are always trying to pact out and net is because they just want to get netting rounds in before they get hit or are forced to fight wars.

If we had a culture where the politics were dominated by fighters vs fighters, with netters providing backup (as existed for many years) I think the server would be much healthier.

-=Pang=-
Earth Empires Staff
pangaea [at] earthempires [dot] com

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H4xOr WaNgEr

Forum Moderator
1981

Oct 20th 2010, 20:16:10

Errr... I'm sorry Junky but we are going to have to agree to disagree on that one.

Netgaining allainces are not doing tech starts and then converting to casher or farmer later... they used to do that, but that was years ago.

They stopped doing it because just playing straight casher or straight farmer is more efficient.

LaF has been teaching pure cash or farm startups for YEARS, and I know that other top netting alliances have been doing the same.

H4xOr WaNgEr

Forum Moderator
1981

Oct 20th 2010, 20:18:30

I would also argue that wars tend to supress the demand for tech, not increase it. A restart will need to buy 30k tech to get their agri % from 100% to 210%, a 25k farmer will have to buy 30k tech points to get there tech percentage from 205% to 210% ...