what i want to know is - if people are going to land-trade so obviously, why dont they just landtrade within their own alliance?

what's the point landtrading back and forth with someone in a different alliance? i mean it's not like it's fooling anyone.

bring in bots, so people don't have to resort to obvious landtrading!

its called interacting with other people beside the ones in your alliance.

bring more suiciders that grabs landtraders

It's like groping. It's more fun to go out and grope others than grope people in your family. Right?

Insider trading is the trading of a corporation's stock or other securities (e.g. bonds or stock options) by individuals with potential access to non-public information about the company. In most countries, trading by corporate insiders such as officers, key employees, directors, and large shareholders may be legal, if this trading is done in a way that does not take advantage of non-public information.

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Land-trading with non-public insider info is ILLEGAL!!! jaja

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/...fdmgjezk/s400/haters4.jpg

the great thing about land trading is that, since it costs much more than bottomfeeding, the great netting alliances like evo can still look down their noses at land traders while yapping about how awful it is! double win.

if you want a real jaja, look at evo's grabbers hitting the same untaggeds 100s of times.

i asked one question: "what's the point landtrading back and forth with someone in a different alliance?"

but you've decided to go on some crusade by inferring something completely different from what i asked.

sheesh.

fair point, my knee-jerk inference was based on your language of "resorting" to "obvious" land trading. maybe i am just defensive. :P sorry anoniem/evo.

so yeah, in direct response to your question, i support land trading because it is a generative method for acquiring land and can be mutually beneficial. (contrast with bottomfeeding)

in-tag farming is frowned upon, though PDM did do that for one set last year as proof of concept for land trading being top 10 viable.

land trading between tags is a logical extension of a grabbing pact, where the good will implied in a grabbing pact is extended to some loose level of coordination and strategy. it creates a positive relationship between players of different alliances and each transaction is mutually beneficial.

Anoniem, land trading in-tag is problematic in that you could organize mass transfers of stockpile in a few exchanges/grabs within your own tag. And if you allowed land trading in-tag, then there will be people that just all-explore everyday for their top players to farm - in essence, no longer really land trading, but land giving. It blurs the line between something that is borderline non-legit (land trading with another alliance) vs something that is widely viewed as non-legit (FAing via stock, land or otherwise to top 10).

What is wrong with any of those things? This is an alliance game. Alliance mates can work together as they like, within the rules of the game, to achieve whatever they want.

There is nothing wrong per se with it, but the majority of netgaining alliances wont like it, and perhaps even some of the non-netgaining alliances. Take for example when na used to aid chain someone to rank 1 every other reset.

Yeah, I miss those days.

Lol nice Erian...

Awful? For once I have to agree with Anoniem(SHOCK). If an alliance like Laf decided to abuse it for one set you would see how good landtrading could be. It should be nerfed a bit. If it could be arranged as such I would personally like normal grabbing to be best, followed by landtraders, followed by all explore.

I am less against grabbing other tags then I am against the same 2-3 people just hitting back and forth constantly..

Speaking as someone who is in an alliance that tried to land trade internally, for reasons unknown the public outcry was ten times worse than doing it with another alliance.

Probably because we are RD.

Probably. Plus it is harder to fluff at someone when there are 4-5 others doing it.

somehow RD has managed to strike such an advantageous deal with PDM that they're 3k acres ahead in average land

i wouldnt say its very organized. we have land grabbing pact terms with some alliances that allow certain countries to be grabbed from each side.

maybe some of you should unpucker those buttcheeks and work with other alliances to promote some fair and beneficial landgrabbing between members instead of trying to grab people and outrunning the retal or trying to screw anyone who grabs with stupid L:L policies that end up costing the grabber 150% L:L.

Or you could just look at llaar in FFA to see how landtrading efficiently can work...

Hey, this has been my pro-land trading argument for many sets now. Some netters are quick to whine about how bad land trading is, but no one has won Alliance with it. The closest a land trading country has come to stacking up against LaF/Evo is rank 9 or 10. I'd love to see LaF/Evo measure epeens via land trading.

btw, to clarify... 'normal grabbing' = farming untaggeds, overwhelming small tags, etc?

llaar is a bad example qz, most of his land was gained before ghost acre changes were made

that was why the ghost acre changes were made

suiciders grab netting alliance a and alliances b and c grabbing suiciders is un-direct landtrading

I was always a proponent of land trading. It doesn't abuse anyone and allows peaceful people to prosper through cooperation.

If you transfer stock in an alliance then so be it. Isn't alliance server supposed to be cooperative? Heaven forbid people in an alliance have advantages over those who are not!

Do the land trades right there in the alliance. Anyone who doesn't like it can start a war. There is nothing wrong with that either. It's not a cheat though. It's a feature of the game.

Not to fluff on anyone but...... Name me one good netter who has actively landtraded on anywhere near the scale that these or past countries have done. The reason they don't win is because they are simply quite a bit worse than the people who do win(Don't worry, I fit in that crowd too :P )

hey, point taken. the highest finishes by landtraders in its current form were by myself and Mr Plum from RD. i have no doubt there are several in LaF and Evo who could do it better. i'd like to see.

so far the landtrading has been for cashers and farmers getting to 50k+ acres. it takes quite a bit of cash to make that work. i'm sure a techer in the right hands could do much better, trading from 9k to 25k acres. i don't have the time/patience for triple selling, so i haven't tried (yet). the amount of land gained relative to the speed it's gained would be similar to how LaF has liked, in the past, to overwhelm a smaller alliance's retal capabilities by having a group of techers farming simultaneously and then jumping NW. the difference with landtrading is that it costs a lot more, and it's generative rather than punitive/aggressive.

i'm also sure the mechanics of landtrading could be further optimized by players more experienced and knowledgeable than myself. i'd like to see it. i'm not totally convinced that it would yield better results than current grabbing practices, unless practiced in a vacuum / totally pacted out.

with PDM at least, anyone who is landtrading is opted in to our grabbing pacts, meaning that they're also fair game for the alliances we're pacted to. obviously we could 'do trading better' if we did our politics in such a way to totally protect our land traders, but that seems like a net negative for the server.

in my honest opinion, most of those opposed to landtrading see it as a threat to traditional grabbing practices, which it is. (i personally think traditional grabbing practices could stand to have an update.) however, i'm not convinced that it's a cheap strategy or against the spirit of the game. maybe the ghost acre returns or other related mechanics could stand to be tweaked if it's truly shown to be overpowered, but i'm pro-innovation even if it means some growing pains.

Look at the people farming untags. Of course there are players in LaF and Evo who could net the fluff out of this game, and if they landtraded, they could probably do really good at it.

The thing about these people(I am not attacking them) who farm untags 20-30 times, are not helping the argument for land trading one bit. There is a small number untags in the server, each getting farmed 40 times a day, who have no chance for growth. People tell the untags to join an established alliance and usually they do. Let's face it, if they joined an established alliance, there goes your land. There is also no point in attacking other alliances because they have capable retallers, and the L:L policy.

So basically you either have to camp DR's to even get a decent hit on these untags or play all x. The other option is land trading. Some people don't sit on the computer all day and watch their DR, or set a timer for when they are out of it.

What are the exact reason's certain alliances frown on land trading?

"Some people don't sit on the computer all day and watch their DR, or set a timer for when they are out of it."

Why should these people be able to get land easier than those who do?

I agree that farming untaggeds is not great for the game, but land trading, especially the free-for-all method that PDM and RD employ, really takes the skill away from grabbing. Do you ever wonder why that KSF country killed the RD landtrader last set?

because he was a douchebag?

PP, there is no skill. They simply have tools which aid them in making their decisions and camp news, dr, whatever. An hit a defenseless country hundreds of times over and over. They have virtually no fear of retribution and yes just pound away that land baby!

Just think if every alliance played this way? The game can only sustain so many countries playing in this manner. I guarantee you if everyone grabbed as some others do there would be no one to grab.

I'd love to see laf and evo land trade and see what happens. It would be epic, and I guarantee you people would have more fun that they have had in a long time playing.

And I challenge LaF and Evo to land trade next set, show us how it's done and have some god damn fun!

I still prefer our all-ex strat :P
All-ex for the lazy vets

All x is sweet but so god damn boring...

I had an almost perfect set in Omega once and got 30k acres all x :p

would you like it more if it was less obvious? Besides, land traders are obvious targets for freelance grabbers.

landtrading is a logical response to a server that insists on L:L.

landtrading benefits the bottomfeeders - less competition for DR camping.

landtrading is fun and a 'new' way to play.

Landtrading is a new way to not play the game. The same way as the explore button is used to avoid interaction landtrading has the same effect. No interaction and interaction with a pre-determined result is pretty much the same thing.

People have different preferences though. That's your opinion.
If some want's to play with less time, let them play all-ex.
If others want to gain easy land, let them landtrade.
If you want excitement from grabbing, then do grabbing.
I don't see a problem with that.

i dont tell you how to play this game, please dont tell me how i should play it.

how is farming untags interaction? how is regular landgrabbing more interaction? oh thats right you get to recieve a message saying "retal for your grab" and you might send one back saying good retal. tons of interaction there

so far alot of people have become acquainted/friendly that otherwise wouldnt have. just last year RD and PDM were enemies, now i would say they are prety good friends. maybe if LaF and EVO had a grabbing pact with each other you guys wouldnt hate each other. ok maybe im overshooting but you catch my drift.

First. Do you not think that someone who puts a lot more time into his country should be rewarded more than someone who doesn't?
Second. The skill is in what you do with the land mainly, however there is skill in grabbing. I challenge you to grab as good as Hanlong next set.

They are rewarded, because I guarantee you they will still beat me.

My problem is that I don't want to drill a few small people hundreds of times per day, week, month. I'm opposed to farming people out of existence. I guess it's more like a philosophical difference between you and I.

But if you think grabbing is "hard" you're wrong. It involves more time but nothing in this game is hard. I'd also venture to guess they have lots (and by lots I mean tons) of "tools" that help them along as well.

In the end everyone is forced to play in some way they don't necessarily want to play i.e. all explore, farm small people hundreds of times over and over, land trade, grabbing pacts, etc... If we could get an influx of players this would all be a moot point :p

But don't think I'm trying to take anything away from the elite netters, I recognize them and lets be honest they will still win.

if it is so bad and inefficient - then how come almost every netting clan in ffa does it? and still gets 300 mil AVERAGE nw?

Pain: this has nothing to do with what alliance a person is from.

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I think landtrading is a good way of recreating the land lost due to suiciders/kamikaze members etc, other than that i wouldn't really participate., not because it's wrong, but because i dont want to play the game that way.

ok so now that i read more of this thread - i see i am behind on the convo...

anyway I think what would happen if we allowed landtrading to carry on in alliance server is what happened in ffa - you have to landtrade or go home - you have to land trade in ffa now or you can't compete.

I beg to differ

Zip (sorry that I am not playing FFA atm)

My first set in FFA i was Landgrabbing Land Traders and god is easy to disrupt a trader, the only reason Landtraders grow to 300M networth now is because hardly anyone does Landgrabs in FFA to untaggeds or other clans, everyone is too busy warring or landtrading.

Land Grabbing IS stronger than trading all you need to do is pick the best targets and you will always come ahead in each grab, traders get big fast, but they are ridiculously weak.

My best average set in FFA is 205M networth, and all my grabbing techers did 40% better than the best of my landtraders (then again I was lazy and at least 4 countries of mine ended with 140M networth)

land bots land bots!

Exactly. I have a good thing going on right now. If another alliance grabbed me, they would get in on the good thing too and it would be fair to them. The problem is people are still too afraid to grab. Years in this server have crippled most people's ability to adventurously landgrab, without being a fluff. I think most people equate grabbing random players in alliances with griefing now, which is really just bizarre. There is no reason to not randomly grab someone, have them retal you for their land, and you both come out ahead... with 1:1 xc, and l:l c:c retals, there is still even the possibility to come out way ahead since if the person doesn't retal for themselves there is no land:land entitlement.

I agree that NPCs with varying levels of AI would be a great improvement. I think that filling the server out to 4000 countries every round would be great. If this game ever gets back above that number, awesome, no NPCs. If it doesn't, there will be land to grab, buffering for newbies to not get run-off immediately, etc.

Having NPCs would be great in my opinion.

Netters in FFA in general are less skilled/put less time into individual countries than alliance players. If they put the same time they'd finish even higher. Trust me when i say that if Laf or Evo did this on the scale that PDM/RD are doing it they would destroy the rest of the server worse than before.