No tipping, please: B.C. restaurant plans to do away with gratuities in favour of paying a living wage

http://www.theprovince.com/business/Vancouver+Island+restaurant+plans+away+with+tipping+servers/9827405/story.html

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What an interesting story. A restaurant who will pay a good living wage (20 to 24 dollars per hour) but wont allow tipping. It does say that they will raise the menu prices around 18%.

For me personally, I hate tipping, I would welcome this change to the restaurant industry. Even though I hate tipping I always tip 15% even if I think the waiter sucked. They'd have to be a complete jackass not to get a 15% tip from me (i've never not tipped to-date) but I hate it. I'd rather pay a higher menu price and not worry about it. Then there are a lot of people who don't tip at all or who only tip like a few dollars...

What do you guys think?

Rather pay more for my meal, then tip. Not all servers deserve tips, but we do it because if not we know they didn't make fluff for the hr we were there

i count the base of fifteen percent and then go as high as i can before i start to need some money back.

but then sometimes i sit there for two hours and drink only three beers.. comes to like fifteen some odd dollars, and then i leave two and a quarter tip for dealing with me for two hours? that seems.. less than fair, so i tip above the fifteen percent in that situation, and likely just leave a twenty for the fifteen.. which i think is maybe something around thirty three percent tip?

I love tipping. I will tip a obscene amount if I am happy and i frequent a place. But hate when it is expected.

Love this concept

Oh and BTW
Damn Canadians!

I am the same way. I still love this concept though. And you're welcome (I am a BC boy)

I think this guy might be onto something, but perhaps he should let people know some of the charities that he intends to donate to. I think if a restaurant I went to made it known that they paid a living wage and did not want any tips to their servers/staff, I might still be inclined to leave a tip for them to donate to charity if they do a really great job. At this point, you could make it $2 or 5%-10% of the bill for a donation to charity if the servers/cooks do a really great job.

I say go for it, but let people know some of the charities you're going to donate to.

bull crap

It is always expected with the current model. If you don't tip with the standard model we have right now, they don't really get paid.

Its a disaster, then again you libs think your ideas are flawless, so go ahead and self destruct some more, I'm safe (for now) from this "concept".

That's pretty false. If a person gets 0 tips, or not enough tips to get them past the minimum wage rate, the employer pays them so they get at least minimum wage. So no matter what, a hostess/bartender/server being paid tip wage will at the very worst get paid minimum wage.

So yeah, they get paid just as much as anyone else working for a minimum wage. Sorry, I just kinda took your comment as 'if you don't tip they don't get paid!' Minimum wage rate aside, why should a server being paid min wage get more sympathy from folks than someone working at walmart or another company? I tip well, 18% at a minimum - if I feel like tipping less than that means I've already talked to the manager about whatever issues. I feel that if a server has to have the employer pay the difference between tipped wage and minimum wage, odds are the server just a fluffty worker, or the restaurant/bar is completely dead.

But yeah, I'd like to see the tip system go bye bye. The only issue I see is that a fluffty employee will now get the same flat rate no matter his/her effort/hard work. However, if this business owner is active enough to implement this system, I'm sure they'd go ahead and axe the crappy workers without question. Me likely

Agreed Trife. A smart business owner will either axe bad workers, or pay his best more. The way it should be. If you suck, then you earn less, or you get fired.

I like to reward people for really great service though. I'll fairly frequently tip 25% for really good service. For exceptional service, I'll go 30+. If the workers weren't allowed to accept tips, that would mean I'd have to actually talk to people.. Saying things like "hey, thanks for the great service", or going and telling the manager what a great job his/her employee did. That sounds bothersome!

It would make some situations quite a bit easier if tips weren't accepted. Like when my in-laws are visiting. They're from England and Scotland, where tipping isn't as prevalent or isn't practiced at all. Four of us will go out for dinner, have good food and good service, and if my in-laws are picking up the check they'll leave a two dollar tip. I'm always having to find an excuse to sneak back and throw a ten or twenty on the table.

I remember the first time I went to Scotland, I ordered a pint of Guinness and left an extra pound coin on the bar. The bartender looked at me like I'd lost my mind. She warmed to the idea fairly quickly though :)

SOMEONE KIDNAPPED THE REAL SAM_DANGER. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE LETTERS OF POWER???

I WAS HOPING THAT THIS THREAD INVOLVED EXPLOSIVE SHEEP TIPPING.

HA!

JOE_DANGER

HA! Sorry Joe! I'm just in a very subdued mood today!

I think the tipping model is an effective way for your workers get a dollar amount closer to what they deserve to get according to how well they do their primary job, serving the customer and giving them a good experience so they'll want to come back. In this sense, it can also serve to drive out those who aren't any good in the profession, sort of a self-firing mechanism if you will.

I almost always tip around 20-25% but I'll go higher if I feel like the service was excellent, 33-40%

On the other end of that, I'm not afraid to leave the coins in my pocket or a dollar to let them know I was dissatisfied with their service. That very rarely happens though.

I feel ya on that, but if you're going to send them a message a la a few coins as a tip, I think that the service was probably bad enough to warrant speaking to a manager and making them aware of the issues. Why? So management realizes that there are problems instead of just hearing 'omg that jerk left $.17 as a tip for no reason what a cheapskate'. Makes them aware that there are either problems, or one of their employees is a twunt. Also, lets the waiter know exactly why they're getting fluffty tips. I'm just not a fan of the hit and run very small/no tip.

I don't think I have ever not tipped, no matter how much the service sucked. I usually start at 15% and go up to 20%. If they were really good and my bill was low I'd tip as much as 25%.

I wouldn't mind trying a no tipping system, but it would be interesting to see the effect it would have on the industry. I could see service possibly getting really bad without tipping, but maybe not.

For whatever reason I have never thought about telling a manager of the service I got, I guess partly because I'm pretty non-confrontational. I'm a fairly easy customer, don't be rude and short with me, but you don't have to be overly friendly either to keep my happy. Just bring what I ask for, and make sure my drink is filled. I was not happy last time we went out. First I asked for a few packets of crackers, these were to hold my 2 year old son from having a melt down....she forgot....he had a melt down. After that I didn't get my drink refilled until the end of my lunch. Crackers and a drink ended up costing her $3-4 in extra tip.

I think the tipping industry is the best thing for restauranteurs. If you don't deserve a tip, then fluffing give customer service and the best damb waiting experience and your customers will WANT to tip you. The ratio of fluffhead stingy customers who don't tip you, won't be near the sheer amount you will earn from customers who appreciate being waited, being actually SERVED.

Too often people these day's, don't want to work hard, and just expect everything for NOTHING. They think they deserve $20 an hour and the fact is they'd still have a bad attitude.

Anyone can be successful in this day and age you just gotta have the right attitude, be passionate about something and actually be prepared to fluffing WORK harder then the next guy and you'll get there.

Pisses me off as a business owner, staff constantly wanting better wages. Thats fine. But you gotta be prepared to earn it. People who go to college, do so for a learned skill, career and better pay. If you don't go to college, it means you gotta get experience. Work hard, learn, train in what you are doing. The more you can offer your boss, the more leverage you have for more responsibility. More responsibility then you can ask for more pay.

Here in Australia i WISH we had tipping. typically young people here don't give a fluff in hospitality.

This is way worse because restaurants will mark up Labour by X percent as a Cost of goods sold.

Meaning they will increase wages by say 40% then mark that up by another 40-50% meaning they win and we pay a HUGE cost as customers.

If people are cheap and dont tip that sucks. There should be a hotline where you report the patron and he gets fined the tip x 5 :)

Tipping isn't mandatory because it shouldn't be. The business model makes perfect sense to me. Want a tip? Then fluffing rock their dinning experience and people will WANT to tip you, and more then you probably should get. Not only that, but people will COME BACK to the restaurant because of the experience they had. Waiter earns great tips, business gets repeat customers its win win. Raising the hourly rate won't change fluff. It will just bring up the cost of the chain and in the end the cost of the plate.

Fire the lazy staff who don't want to give a 10/10 dinning experience, and hire people who have common sense who get the above. EVERYBODY WINS.

We have to stop making it easier for people to be lazy and expect everything to be given to them.

You all suck

I think this is a case of...let the market decide. The markets will decide if a no-tipping sit down restaurant experience works. I do think that any owner who does this system will have to keep an eye on customer service more than a tipping restaurant because the servers won't have immediate feedback from customers.

On this note, I do avoid restaurants that expect me to pay for my meal, including tip up front (when paying by card). It may only be an all-you-can-eat buffet, but let me have the experience and then decide how much I'm going to tip if you're going to have tips.

Really? I've never heard of that before, of course I've never worked for less than min wage even in a tipping job...

So nobody here has ever left a larger tip than the actual cost of the meal?

Well, damn it, I guess I really am weird...

If that is true, its easy to say on here but another thing to actually do it, you are a big tipper. From my experience, which admittedly isn't a whole lot, most people tip in the 10 to 15% range. 15% is considered good form no?

I haven't but it's not like I'm swimming in money here. If I had more disposable income I'd prob do it too.

The larger the bill, the lower percentage I find myself tipping. 20% to 25% is probably a realistic average for me, but as I mentioned before I have had some instances where the deserved tip was large enough that it exceeded the cost of the meal.

Some things that effect how I tip though... If gratuity is included, you get nothing extra from me, which I have found means they get a little less from me than they otherwise would have. And if they give me something for free, the tip increases significantly as a show of gratitude.

Hell, that practice started when I was in college!

Do you go to sit down places by yourself?

By myself? No.
Go dutch? Fairly often.

Back in college though, our social lives revolved around restaurants. We made a lot of friends that started out as our servers. 3 hours of sitting there bullfluffting with them will do that though...

Ok here is another question for the tipping / no tipping crowd...

If you don't like to tip and a place gives you the option to have a waiter get you your food and drinks or you self serve your food and drinks (i.e. the cook calls your ticket and you go pick up your own plate and fill your own pop) would you choose self service, no tipping required, or the waiter?

I like the tip option, it encourages better service IMO, couple times the food was so good I called out the cook and tipped him too :-)

Tips are earned- not deserved. No, I don't want my meals to be more expensive. We've been doing things the way we do them for quite a while, and it's worked. If it ain't broke- DON'T FIX IT! A server may make less than minimum wage on the books, but they also earn a lot of tips which they probably do not claim on taxes. They've got a pretty sweet deal. No need to be switching things up now.

GE, the customers will decide that with their money. If this guys business does good then it wins. Yay capitalism.

The server sucks then. Or they work at a fluffty restaurant. I have never made less than minimum wage in a day. Our hostesses get minimum wage at my restaurant.
If restaurant's go to no tips and a wage, I am done there. I love the tip factor, because it ensures proper service....and yes I have the conscious to tip below 15 percent if the service is crappy. I think because I am a server/bartender I have some bit higher standards and pet peeves when we go out to eat. Like I cannot stand it when a server walks up to my table and never says their name and then says "what would you like to drink". I don't know what they have, upsell me something, make your check higher, so you receive a bigger tip. That is just pure laziness and no want to even try to talk to interact with the guest.


Earl - the tax thing. Let me see if I can explain this one...so years ago servers only claimed about 8 percent of their tips, IRS caught on and came into restaurants and say hey "You have to claim 100 percent, we are watching you, if we see that you are not, then we will audit you including the past years and you will have to pay back the past years". So basically the past years, they were giving a break to the service industry, but you screw it up, you will go ahead and pay what they assumed you made back then off the sales. The computer of course can track Credit card tips, so those have to be claimed, they can also tell how much in cash sales you had too, so they are assuming what you make off that. The company I work for example...when you clock out at night it will not allow you to claim less than a certain percentage of your sales, and you cannot claim less than your credit card tips.
A server claiming less than what tips they got is screwing themselves. Because that is their income...so if they are going to buy a house, car ...etc.... anything that requires proof of income..they cannot say "well I really make this even though my check stubs or W2's say this.... companies can only go off that proof of income.

hm; 25% is crazy high; i typically start at 10%, and cap at 20% for like awesome service =/

Though I like round numbers, and will go for that even if it takes me slightly under or over my range heh...

Oh, anyway, I like the no-tipping business model, it makes for less confusion at the table with groups of people where the bill is split; and less disagreement over how much extra should be added by whom etc etc

Plus it would tend to result in nicer round numbers

In fact, they should be forced to list the GST in the price too!

AND prices should be rounded to the nearest 25c, if not to the nearest 50c or $1 =/

I don't know if I want to get the sandwich for $13.37 or the burger for $13.99; if you just made them $13 and $14 it'd be an easier decision =D

Oh man. I lived in Singapore for 4 years (family's been there for 6 so far...) and nobody tips there for anything because 'it spoils the economy'. I'll tell you what it spoils: the fluffin service. I know I'll tip 10-25% depending on how bad or good the service is if I'm in the USA, and that's an easy way to tell someone they did a good job or they need to do better next time. But in SG, a lot of places suffer from fluffty service. I don't think the waiters there are any more or less suited for their job but people certainly respond to incentives. I know the chilis there allows tips (and kinda encourages it because of their 'reduced menu prices' - which seems silly cuz that fluff is expensive there) and I don't think I've had a fluffty waiter there. They are always smiling and if you frequent the place they'll remember you. Can't say the same for other restaurants there.

I dont tip, ever!! cause well we dont tip in NZ :P

Yeah but do they make $24 per our? This guy is not going to allow tipping BUT pay a good wage. That should still be a good incentive to do a good job.

24 dollars per hour? For a waiter? Thats $48k per year if there is no overtime, which is more than the average starting salary for teachers in BC.

that's assuming 40 hours/week archaic, and i've never had a waiting job where i was working 8h/day constantly. maybe some places are different, but most restaurants avoid full-time employment for the same reason walmart avoids it (and lots of other companies): they have to pay benefits if you're full-time.

now, this guy might be more enlightened on this concept too :P

also for those of you that are of the "tipping encourages better service" mindset. keep in mind a lot of places do tip sharing. all the tips go into a pool that's divvied out to everybody that worked that night. tipping doesn't *necessarily* mean that people have an incentive to do better :P

In Singapore, tipping is NOT the norm. That is, the expectation of receiving a tip is zero. Instead, restaurants are allowed by law to charge a +10% service charge, and waiters are paid a fixed salary by contract. There are restaurants that do not charge service tax, these are also common.

Obviously, there are pros and cons, the con being that waiters have no intrinsic desire to perform well, since it doesn't affect their pay. On the other hand, it also means their pay is stable and does not vary from month to month, nor influenced by external factors.

In Japan, there is not tipping whatsoever, but there is a very very high level of service at all levels of the economy. Then again, much of the service is impersonal, even robotic, and lacks the general sense of warmth I'd typically get in the States...

The OP post was about BC (Canada) so there are no 'benefits' per say.

Its an interesting experiment he is doing. If his business succeeds then it may be another viable option for the industry. If not then real life said no.