Keep it classy fellas stay on topic

OMFG WHAT TOPIC!?

Did I get the last one deleted or someone else? Most disjointed convo of my life.

stay on topic or thread will get closed

By the way, just to finish the topic, I simply wasn't allowed to respond at the time by Pang. I forget if he just deleted all my posts or I was temp banned or something, but there was no ability to counteract or even respond to the lies he was telling. It was pretty nasty.

Ok this has been fun and all but to what end? Where are going with this 10-11 years later?

Don’t shoot the messenger. Someone was scared to ask this publicly. Yes, for real.

baaaaaaaaaa

People still get weird over the most bizarre events in this game. I think a lot of it comes from like....if you weren't cool enough or whatever you weren't in the club (like RD, GentClub, etc.). I used me posting the PCI growth formula for the first time in 12 years as an example. Fortunately Detmer gave it to me a decade ago and i wrote it in a notebook I still have. That formula was kept secret by netting tags that thought it would give them an advantage, and over time, the formula was lost altogether and LaF would tell you no one had it. Tons of fluff was just secrets for no other reason than to have an ego over "inferior players."

I often seek to share all the information I have about previously held secrets like PCI growth, hybrid destock, RD, TurtleCrawler lol, etc, just because I think if knowledge is collective, we all can improve and learn together. And the best players win on merits instead of information access, which to me is more impressive.

In this case, the official narrative wasn't believable to begin with because of TC's position and relationship with pang at the time. However, given that narrative, I called out TC for questioning the ethics of our side, given his apparent cheating past.

He admitted to getting worked up and making a mistake that was a bannable offense and a security breach/breach of trust.. And I forgive him for it because I probably would have done the same thing/worse in his position, as a drunk. I've also had some less than forgiving shutdown type convos with pang myself, so I can empathize.

Starting right this moment, I can listen to TC have an ethics conversation with me without unconfirmed/preconceived notions. And I suppose that's the end, Doug. "Cool recap, Derrick." Thanks guys.

Thank you emo Derrick. Oh and cool recap lol

I do think, unfortunately, that none of that was helpful. It was just information farming because I wanted 11 year old tea and I'm super glad TC indulged me haha. That's all that happened.

None of that will help the fact that in LaF's prime, they did some things where you can just tell ex players to come back to kill LaF and they will. I was the warleader in a clan with Aardvark, BudsMyBud, MaryV, CrazyDave, etc. Some real top teir former HFAs and Presidents and stuff. We were called BSS and I think Buds named her countries after it right up until Bomber passed away (RIP legend) and she stopped being around as much. Funnest clan I've ever been in and we got done in by the old savage LaF.

I stuck around after that elders/laf war I was recruited back for 5 or 6 or 7 years ago (a decade away but I surely knew I wanted to kill LaF), and maybe even negotiated the long peace that followed because in this era I have a ton of friends there. But I'm also acutely aware of the power of recruitment fluffting on LaF has because their old politics/treatment of other clans. They were the reason a ton of us quit (including myself) in the first place years ago. 99.9% of that drama is over a decade old, and the rest is that Gerdler can be a bit brash. But it's difficult to argue with the power wanting to see LaF once and for all admit defeat and offer concessions to the every man of EE.

I think for most non-casuals, that's all they want to see. And I think LaF is in a position to offer that. 2:1 retals, stop harassing evo because martian been gone and if we have to give up 10 year old drama so do you, a big time Gerdler post about how he lost. Whatever it is, I think they'd do it. Our side wouldn't, however, be able to guarantee as tags, safety from people who specifically came back to kill LaF tho, and because the politics of that are an impasse, I think the war must continue. It's one thing to say GGs y'all got us, and another thing to say GGs, lemme go tell the 30 people who came back to the game to kill laf to fluff off. There's no exit strategy by either side, and the thought of one seems ridiculous atm. It would take some seriously good intentioned thinkers and no one is offering that. We haven't even gotten past 2011 yet lol.

If LaF made a formal plea for CF and admission of defeat publicly, I'd honor it personally, but I hardly play. I know some others tho that would honor it as well, for sure. But there's 0 chance every individual feels that way, and it seems doubtful our side would ever offer to clean up the ensuing mess. I think it's just total impasse atm.

We have not done a Land:land retal on a non-pacted tag/untagged in over 4 years.

That grievance doesn't exist. We also never touched Evo until they started aiding the crap out of you.

That said we did lose. A 100% member advantage is something we are not going to try to think our way out of. It's not even hard to admit.

You remember when your dad/mom/parental figure let you drive the car for the first time? I'm not sayin...I'm just sayin.

What’s clear to me now is that there is only one true path forward.

Join theBOMB if we return next set

We have never lost and never get butthurt. Never been the aggressor.

For real. I'm tagging Bomb. You guys are fluffed.

could someone tell me what EVO did this set to deserve what they got this set?

What about the set before _FA_

Also, don't forget their long-term, ongoing for many sets, pact was abruptly canceled _before_ the set started. For the slow people– before any FA was ever sent.

.99999 = 1

Ah, yes, it all makes sense!

liars never keep their story straight and they think they can blow smoke up my arse and make me think the woods are on fire

It looks like my read on Requiem was correct, that there really isn't any modern reason for the current war. All LaF does is farm bots and netgain, aparently to the extreme of failing to maintain proper alliances. People older than 30, which is everyone now, really shouldn't be holding grudges. A game built on perceived slights from decades ago can't last.

You're almost there. Just need to put your finger on the beef your side has with EVO (the historical beef 100% goes both ways), and consider that many former EVO members are members in Elders because they prefer war. So a LaF beef with EVO will generally result in war. That's more the recent part you're missing. For the clans that historically hate LaF, it's more about a relationship never being repaired than a grudge, but also a response to a perceived bullying of a small tag that historically LaF got away with.

Like if I thought you were this big time hacker/cheater, and you don't tell me otherwise, I'll keep thinking that. If, as a hypothetical, I thought you were an asshole, and we don't see each other for 10 years, it's not a grudge that makes me still think you're an asshole the next time we see each other. It may be a bias against you but it's an informed bias. If you're really nice to me though after that decade, I'd probably drop my bias. That's the other missing piece.

I will also point out that 7 of the 10 very most active on our side of the war are former LaF relatively recently, whether its Req or Snoop or SF, etc. And those folks seem the most keen to kill LaF I think over failed relationships or something. Don't know what to do with that, but it is worth pointing out.

My understanding of that is basically this:

LaF signs FDP every set with EVO
Neither side ever help each other with suiciders or wars ever because they both netters and have history beef
LaF drops pact with EVO in a vitriolic conversation because "if LaF doesn't get to net, and won't get help, no one should net freely"...."we've protected the netters here alone far too long."....etc.(Y'alls words/were taken as fightin' words)
Elders/mercs decides to join with other tags planning to hit LaF after hearing word of that conversation and realizing their ally is getting pushed around
~War begins~
EVO accommodates LaF members who want to avoid war beginning in set 2
A lone wolf EVO member FA's various folks at war with LaF
LaF kills all EVO netters in response to the actions of 1 of their members but leaves alone the countries that were provided shelter by EVO
Various proxies go down cross server and are coupled with lots of derision, (ie, LaF members suiciding evo netters on team server, elders members hunting down RESIST on solos, etc)
War goes from relatively even numbers to a blowout

Annnnnnnnnd that's that for about half of our side, but I think the pact was dropped initially out of spite and in a hater-ish way. I get the sentiment but it's also not really fair to ask a 5 member netting tag to honor an FDP and have any real impact too. The pact seemed primarily dropped for historical reasons more than recency, but it absolutely was a domino in this war.

This is quite wrong on the chronology.

Evo and us had uNAP for X years.
LaF and Evo were still pacted when this war started. It was only the second round of this that we unpacted Evo.
FOUR Evo members were caught FAing SOL/Mercs members. Not one.

It was Tmac(who some consider the leader of Evo), Cathoweverhespellshisname, Duff and g0nz0 that FAed. We caught the first FA 6th of March and didn't consider ourselves in a strong enough position to do anything about it. We expressed our displeasure with the FA on the ~17th and since it continued in a consistent fashion we FSed like 2 weeks later.

Yeah I didn't expect my understanding to really be spot on, I wasn't even here for the beginning haha. So it really doesn't explain how it started I guess. Only how it worsened and enlarged. I knew EVO only FA'd after their pact was dropped believing something nefarious was afoot, and the RESIST suicides on them the previous set from your side of the war seemed to confirm that thinking. Did evo get suicided by RESIST before or after the war started? Was after, correct?

Either way, that's some genuine current waygu that isn't a historical Kobe.

fluff you Derick, TL:DR






,,!,, (-_-) ,,!,,

jesus fluff. Why are we suiciders when everyone else is in a war? Our time as a clan on alliance was in a war alongside LaF for two sets in a row. Prior to that I, personally, and alone, hit Omega, Evo, PDM, and LAF!!!!

Oh, and I did that hitting under the guidance and tutelage of Superfly.

Don’t forget to give credit to Gerdler as well. His words “ if you don’t hit evo you are handing them the win”
So you also hit Evo.

Not sure why you love leaving that part out all the time…

Btw it was Gerdler who was your ultimate teacher in the art of suiciding Evo. I only gave you the bright idea to do it and he gave you the expertise to carry it out as he was your mentor for 4 rounds of team and 2 rounds of alliance…

I hope someone drops a link to the discord again so I can hide under a fake name and watch everyone talk crap about the mods. My screenshots are gold. Especially when Req said I had a three inch penis 🤣

Evo was only hit after they FAed, were warned, continued to FA, and that such FA was key to killing one of the fully built laf countries. After that, and only after that, with Evo being the most effective participants in the team against is were they hit. And even then they were hit only with respect to the countries that we judged as high risk for participation. We left the rest of the tag alone.

We did everything reasonably possible to avoid hitting them.

Wait what! Rolling with big dixk energy!

/me runs

Don’t you mean that you only left the LaF players that were in the Evo tag alone? I see where Black Hole learned the art of omission from. It was from his time as a LaF Peon :)

Yeah I definitely remember somebody asking why the ones that didn't FA were killed as well. P sure you TK'd them aside from the LaF outpost.

And yeah...I knew someone suicided evo and then was laf side of the war and that's what possessed EVO to FA. Guess it was just blackhole acting alone in the set before resist.

Don't forget about Duff:
https://www.earthempires.com/alliance/80/clans/Evo

Obviously there is a very limited amount of recon one can do without telegraphing your moves completely, so you can't actually message and talk to anyone.

And, as you can see, those were Evo countries at the end of reset, not LaF countries. But yes their history with LaF + not being part of the FA helped with the idea that they would leave us alone. You can see the 4 names who did FA posted above, which is about how much we took out (maybe 1-2 more? would have to check). Nor did the previously laf guys in evo FA LaF.

There were no hard feelings, nothing satisfied, it was a pure "We need to do this or we'll keep losing countries" play.

Why did you guys attack evo again?

-Someone said it was because of req aka mirotek (personally I think this is the most plausible theory considering there was a post about it)

-Forgo said it was over something about a screenshot he saved in a missing hard drive that he can’t find.

-BlackHole said it was because he thinks is Merc’s “netting clan”. There’s multiple screenshots of him admitting that cotton ball Pat himself asked him to grief a new record holder

-FAs? I think it’s hilarious and extremely SUS that the day after Gerd helped QZ look at some raw data, they made a big fuss about it all over the place. And then evo guys get harassed across all servers. The reason why EVO even had to FA was because someone decided create a team of griefers to harasss a new record holder. You can point 1 finger at us and 3 back at yourself.

Nobody ever gives me the finger!

TC, you are either a liar or stupid. Based on your inability to understand what anyone says. You can't be both sorry.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/...37404677877780/image0.jpg

2nd time you waste my time. 3rd time is a shame on me. See you next set.

P.S. Still time to surrender to coalies terms before then!

That's because you ask for the thumb.

What harmful ops were going from LaF to EVO? Was this during the first set of war or before/after? Sorry gang. I'm trying to piece this whole thing together myself.

Again, to be clear, and several mods have stated that this was in the open mod room for every mod to see. So it wasn't just Gerd. The data was also only on the LaF side.
Considering we have devs, mods, and forum mods all in that room from from several clans..... There is nothing sus from what qz did. Bringing up that situation will probably bring Prime to shut down this thread too.

From what I understand there were no failed ops, but tmac suspected laf. (Btw you can almost always find out using nw data exactly who). Don't quote me but I think when resets end that you can see who actually did it in the news, and it wasn't LaF.

Oh I see now, you are insane.

Correct
The data was all in the common mod
Room. Let’s keep this thread fun and stop all
The harassment pls or it will get the lock.

TC you are laughably wrong, as usual.

Evo had already agreed to FA mercs for killing the suiciders from the previous set. Several mercs folks reached out directly to Evo members and asked for the aid, and since LaF dropped our pact (because they just assume Evo somehow controls all of the war alliances, but of course they just wanted to rub it in Gerdler's face that he lost the top netting spots to tmac) there was no reason to change that plan because of an unexpectedly early war. Tmac shared that we had agreed to the FA (which isn't atypical because as a small netting tag we do rely on friends and diplomacy to help finish our kill runs of griefers) and so people could send it or not. 3 people sent like one package each, and admitted it on the forums because it wasn't meant to be some dirty secret. Though a number of people didn't send any, they were killed in the first wave - the only people who survived were LaF players who tagged over to Evo for that set (because we weren't trying to be involved in any wars, and we have friends on both sides).

And no one warned Evo or even asked for it to stop - Tmac had one in game message from a random LaF player who didn't identify themselves and only said they didn't like it. Clearly we see the failed spy ops in the clan messages and know they knew. The usual diplomatic contacts never reached out because, just like with the dropping of the pact, it was just pretext to ruin Evo's netting set (par for the course for LaF). And even the following set, no FA, but LaF and Resist restarts suicided Evo. Oh and followed us to multiple servers and did the same. If you're going to rehash the same conversations over and over again, at least get it right because it's well known at this point.

What terms?

Idk sounds to me like they want this war to continue. I guess we’ll see them next set OOP again, and again after that.

There’s going to be a pallbearer shortage on the market.

I'm honored. =)

Do people need the formulas? I have them all... unless something has changed in the past 15 years which seems doubtful.

I'll DM you. I think I have MOST but perhaps not all. Would like some show and tell haha.

Laf/evo communication was brief. Gerdler messaged me before the set that they are canceling our auto renew unap because they suspect that maybe I'm the kind of guy to have all of laf killed so I can post higher scores and maybe because I let req play in evo a few sets some time before. During the set a laf country asked me about the aid and said it was annoying. I told him it was reps for their help killing resist the set before. I asked who I was talking to and they didn't say, just that they don't get involved in the politics so they don't really know what's up. Turns out that was also gerdler.

Why do you guys keep trying to make evo sound like some secretive d1cks that were trying to sabotage laf? When did I hide this aid that was only made possible by laf? Stop trying to act like you were trying to spare some evo guys. I sent at least 95% of the aid. Andrew might've hit 1.5b nw and sent no aid yet you killed him. The 2 evo countries not hit were laf the set before. That's 100% fine, but I think people would respect you more if you just said we hit evo because we felt like it.

As for the harmful ops laf did to me while we were allied the set before, that was just one country that stopped after I reported it to gains. I didn't know who it was which is why I actually let him play in evo the next set. I thought we were pals, but turns out that was just him being fake. I found out late that set and let him finish out the set in evo, but kicked him from evo after because I don't trust him.

The truth will set you free. Unless you are LaF and they will deny, deny, deny.

Duck dodge dive

Skipped all the emo 'Im so old and I know so much stuff' it just made me want to kill LaF another set, great job TC, write another book.

-- the common idiot whos keeping ur tag under 3 members

Oh hell yeah Tmac

The war for laf vs evo was already predetermined before the FAs were even sent. It was over some stupid record. (An impressive record I might add).

You know he told his guys it was the FAs to get them all worked up and gave them the reason to support FSing evo. He won’t ever admit it but we all know.

It’s so sad to see him drag his entire clan into this mess over some “record”. I bet some of his guys left after they figured this out.

Lol. Don't get yourselves all worked up. There's people on both sides of this war that needed a fuller explanation and I can personally attest. I brought this up, and expected all to see it their way. Don't get extra mad at each other for my ignorance.

Do you understand the tea better, TC, or are you still certain this is over nothing. I'm kinda not. I think the previous 5 or so posts satisfy the parameters of war for a reason for some....and some being just allies....and some being long time haters.

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I love lamp

I’d like to think I can keep up with the best of them but I’m totally lost lol and for once it seems as if that’s the best place for me. I was away for this mess. 🤪🤪🤪

But be nice to emo Derrick lol