Changeset #18 - Grabbing Returns and Restart Bonus Changes

Pang

Administrator
Game Development
5735

Nov 25th 2019, 2:52:44

Hi everyone!

Here’s the update for Changeset #18 related to changing grabbing returns. This is a stepping stone toward future changes — we’ll see how it goes!

- All attacks (all types) will have returns capped at 10% of what the attacker has OR 100% of the existing returns (whichever is less) for the following items:
    - Buildings
    - Tech
    - Money
    - Food
    - Oil
- Each Building/Tech type will be treated separately so if you have 0 of a specific building type built, you won’t gain any built buildings of that building type. 
- Land returns for grabbing/nuking will be capped at 10% attacker’s total built buildings OR 100% of the existing calculation whichever is less)
- The restart bonus has been disabled until we can workshop how to implement it better

These changes will be enabled as each round resets, other than Alliance for which we have enabled the changes immediately.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and passion they brought to this discussion!

Cheers!

-=Pang=-
Earth Empires Staff
pangaea [at] earthempires [dot] com

Boxcar - Earth Empires Clan & Alliance Hosting
http://www.boxcarhosting.com

Sov

Member
2509

Nov 25th 2019, 3:50:43

Changing the restart bonus the day before a major (arranged) war is about to start is a bit outrageous. This will completely unbalance the war.

Pang

Administrator
Game Development
5735

Nov 25th 2019, 3:54:20

Originally posted by Sov:

Changing the restart bonus the day before a major (arranged) war is about to start is a bit outrageous. This will completely unbalance the war.

Ya, that's reasonable -- I'll re-enable it for the remainder of the round. Everything else is still in. Will actually be interested in seeing how the returns impact war!

-=Pang=-
Earth Empires Staff
pangaea [at] earthempires [dot] com

Boxcar - Earth Empires Clan & Alliance Hosting
http://www.boxcarhosting.com

Mobster

Member
92

Nov 25th 2019, 3:57:27

Originally posted by Pang:

Originally posted by Sov:

Changing the restart bonus the day before a major (arranged) war is about to start is a bit outrageous. This will completely unbalance the war.

Ya, that's reasonable -- I'll re-enable it for the remainder of the round. Everything else is still in. Will actually be interested in seeing how the returns impact war!

Thanks Pang for re-enabling. I was nervous when I read it at first. Appreciate it.

Sov

Member
2509

Nov 25th 2019, 3:57:41

Thank you Pang. There would have been broad implications for our late set war.

I am happy to consult with you regarding restart bonus as I did have a lot of input into the current system.

enshula

Member

EE Patron
2510

Nov 25th 2019, 17:17:47

yeah some restart changes would be nice

im fearful to see one or more of those stockstealing multiple suicide restarts then wishing the change had gone through but changes during a set are always controversial

would have been nice to have an ingame notification/announcement, maybe thats doable in the new UI

this actually already had a negative effect on me, its not huge but would have been nice to know

when it does come in things like only getting the restart bonus if you agree to be tag locked to the tag you died in and cant use vacation for 72 hours would be nice

and therefore no restart bonus to untagged

might need a workaround for countries people want to boot from their tag though

other restart changes though is it should be inverted, the more you wall the less you should get back, not more

Boltar

Member
4056

Nov 25th 2019, 17:27:01

My opinion the restart bonus is fine. It's outside factors that players exploit once they restart that make them able to grief again (techer bots like I told pang last night holding lots of cash). A regular country once dead will have less then they had before they died. Yes ? So once it's dead and has less. Unless the clan or person it hit doesn't defend themselves better he can hit them again. However if they do defend themselves better the only way the restart can hurt them again is if it exploits something else in the game. Or hits another clan for stock.

tfm0m0

Member
264

Nov 25th 2019, 18:24:54

The change to restart bonus should again apply to untagged/small tags. For new players who join a clan and get advice/guidance on their country only to have it killed and start from 0 this will probably push them out.

Gerdler

Forum Moderator
5117

Nov 25th 2019, 18:44:23

I think thats a good idea. It would require mod action a lot tho as spam tags will form to get above the member cap. They would have to delete people who cheat their way around it and that would require new guidelines for the mods.

tfm0m0

Member
264

Nov 25th 2019, 19:29:00

I agree that a multi/spam tag would be a way around it but can't imagine it happening often enough to be a real issue. Even if it were to become one, maybe one time mod approval for new tags to verify its a real alliance?

Just trying to preserve alliance server for what it is and not only cater changes to existing players

sinistril

Member
2184

Nov 25th 2019, 19:38:09

Originally posted by Sov:

Changing the restart bonus the day before a major (arranged) war is about to start is a bit outrageous. This will completely unbalance the war.

So we finally got rid of a terrible mechanic and you petition to keep it in because sof is bad at war? Ok

If you give a man some fire, he'll be warm for awhile. If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Marshal

Member
32,589

Nov 25th 2019, 20:00:34

if it's up to qz then there'll be no war.

Patience: Yep, I'm with ELK and Marshal.

ELKronos: Patty is more hairy.

Gallery: K at least I am to my expectations now.

LadyGrizz boobies is fine

NOW3P: Morwen is a much harsher mistress than boredom....

Mr Gainsboro

Member

EE Patron
1476

Nov 25th 2019, 21:20:39

This sounds interesting, gj :)

Don of LaF

Gerdler

Forum Moderator
5117

Nov 25th 2019, 21:25:37

Originally posted by tfm0m0:

Even if it were to become one, maybe one time mod approval for new tags to verify its a real alliance?

Thats an intelligent suggestion and it would be a great way to solve it. I know it would happen if something like that was not put in place tho. I have seen enough of what lengths these people will go to to do their damage.

Gerdler

Forum Moderator
5117

Nov 25th 2019, 23:02:09

Pang you should definatly have this live on the test servers so we can see how it works and find the issues with it.

Pang

Administrator
Game Development
5735

Nov 25th 2019, 23:43:24

It is.

-=Pang=-
Earth Empires Staff
pangaea [at] earthempires [dot] com

Boxcar - Earth Empires Clan & Alliance Hosting
http://www.boxcarhosting.com

enshula

Member

EE Patron
2510

Nov 26th 2019, 7:23:45

its live on alliance already, it has already effected people before people knew it had happened

allbymyself87

Member
894

Nov 27th 2019, 0:39:27

Can you please at least send an ingame msg to inform everyone about the new changes?
Not everyone check or read forum everyday!
I don't even know about these changes until someone told me about it! >,<

All by myself
Don't wanna be
All by myself anymore

Pang

Administrator
Game Development
5735

Nov 27th 2019, 4:30:08

Originally posted by allbymyself87:

Oooo that's a good point. I forgot we built in functionality to do just that -- I pinged the server now. Thanks for the feedback!

-=Pang=-
Earth Empires Staff
pangaea [at] earthempires [dot] com

Boxcar - Earth Empires Clan & Alliance Hosting
http://www.boxcarhosting.com

Hellrush

Member
1448

Nov 27th 2019, 5:12:33

Just leave the restart bonus the way it is until you come up with away to restart with more.

Hellrush

Member
1448

Nov 27th 2019, 5:16:41

error

Edited By: Hellrush on Nov 27th 2019, 5:19:03

Hellrush

Member
1448

Nov 27th 2019, 5:18:43

Originally posted by Marshal:

if it's up to qz then there'll be no war.

It’s called FarmVille

enshula

Member

EE Patron
2510

Nov 27th 2019, 10:34:54

thanks for the message pang, i didnt know you could do that either :)

Chevs

Member
2061

Nov 27th 2019, 12:40:25

10 percent seems low to me

So you need 100k acres to do a 10k max acre grab?

I guess on the bright side my 45k acre record grab on enforcer will stand the test of time lol

SOF Head Of Poop
2019-04-03 21:40:26 PS the stinky deyicks (#599) Beryl Houston (#360) LaF 30638A (43783A)
En4cer: Chevs... u would have beaten me by more than 100m

Milla

Member
104

Nov 27th 2019, 12:41:04

- All attacks (all types) will have returns capped at 10% of what the attacker has OR 100% of the existing returns (whichever is less) for the following items:
- Buildings
- Tech
- Money
- Food
- Oil
- Each Building/Tech type will be treated separately so if you have 0 of a specific building type built, you won’t gain any built buildings of that building type.

So basicly this means that if you aren't a farmer and you grab a farmer you will only get acers(+ghost) and not buildings?
Or if you AB/BR a farmer in a war and you aren't one it's a pointless action/the BR only does half of the things it should do?

Edited By: Milla on Nov 27th 2019, 13:05:14. Reason: Spelling

allbymyself87

Member
894

Nov 27th 2019, 12:47:37

Originally posted by Pang:

Originally posted by allbymyself87:

Oooo that's a good point. I forgot we built in functionality to do just that -- I pinged the server now. Thanks for the feedback!

TQ!
Finally you listened to me! =D

All by myself
Don't wanna be
All by myself anymore

Milla

Member
104

Nov 27th 2019, 13:03:40

And if you really wanna f*uck someone up you build up a lot of CS and then AB them :)

Edited By: Milla on Nov 27th 2019, 13:07:24. Reason: Pointless stuff

Marshal

Member
32,589

Nov 27th 2019, 14:36:48

Originally posted by Hellrush:

Just leave the restart bonus the way it is until you come up with away to restart with more.

how about no restarting after dies unless is in tag of at least 5 members when dies? that'd stop suiciders to become whole set nuisance.

edit: in FFA 80 countries.

Originally posted by Milla:

And if you really wanna f*uck someone up you build up a lot of CS and then AB them :)

that's 1 option but still needs to be in humanitarians range.

Edited By: Marshal on Nov 27th 2019, 20:06:14. Reason: included FFA

enshula

Member

EE Patron
2510

Nov 27th 2019, 15:30:12

milla makes a good point on GS vs BR

gs was already a lot stronger and used more frequently than BR, this might make that worse, but theres probably a better way to change that with CD or something else

Red X

Member
5242

Nov 27th 2019, 17:11:12

Originally posted by enshula:

I keep pushing for hybrid kills.

Rey Rojo
Disgruntled Killer
——————————
Marked 4 Death
Vice President - Foreign Affairs
——————————
Coalies Twin

KoHeartsGPA

Member

EE Patron
30,131

Nov 27th 2019, 17:51:03

Was spy formula somehow changed?

Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)

https://youtu.be/...pxFw4?si=mCDXT3t1vmFgn0qn

-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF~SKA=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

Gerdler

Forum Moderator
5117

Nov 27th 2019, 20:22:49

Not for the last 4-5 years.

KoHeartsGPA

Member

EE Patron
30,131

Nov 27th 2019, 20:32:12

That means bots are carrying hella spal, my 20 ain't doing fluff 🤨

Zorp

Member

EE Patron
953

Nov 27th 2019, 21:36:54

I'm getting lower than expected returns on non farmers bots, in terms of total acres grabbed. So this change means that since I have no ez/res/labs and few ICs, my attacks on cashers techers and Indies yield less total acres, because I am not capturing the buildings. I would have assumed the acres would just be empty. So I now have an incentive to maintain 1-2k of each of those building types to get me the 100-200 acres missing from those grabs. Seems to me this wasn't intended because it feels retarded to incentivize running a rainbow.

KoHeartsGPA

Member

EE Patron
30,131

Nov 27th 2019, 21:41:44

Maybe run rainbows will be a new strategy, then at some point convert.

Bug

Member

EE Patron
1539

Nov 27th 2019, 23:17:39

Zorp, yes it has been a non-unexpected change.

Yeah rainbows may be king ;)

Gerdler

Forum Moderator
5117

Nov 27th 2019, 23:58:21

Zorp that is a small problem for you and me but a huge problem for techers and people who are warring. it should be total buildings limitation. Secondly these hits from griefers that destroy 10k acres from the target and only give 1-2k acres to the attacker, they actually make griefing much more powerful since you still do full damage but you dont dilute techs or spal, and even a portion of the land cant be grabbed back.

After changes:
2019-11-26 02:38:33 PS C R O A T I A (#202) Detah2PS Hmpfs (#181) TheOmega 13341A (960A)
2019-11-25 03:15:16 PS C R O A T I A (#202) Detah2PS Hmpfs (#181) TheOmega 11106A (1805A)

This is before the change:
2019-11-25 02:49:44 SS C R O A T I A (#202) Detah2PS Hmpfs (#181) TheOmega 8851A (13376A)
2019-11-25 02:49:36 SS C R O A T I A (#202) Detah2PS Hmpfs (#181) TheOmega 10540A (15608A)

Gerdler

Forum Moderator
5117

Nov 28th 2019, 0:04:00

Originally posted by Gerdler:

Attack_Constant*MStrat*Govt_Mod*NW_Mod*Min(Targets_Resource,Attackers_Resource)

Imo something like this should be done rather than a 10% cap.

If Pang goes with what Trumpoz suggested, to base it on built land then you get

Attackers_Resource=Built_buildings_attacker
Targets_Resource=Total_Acres_defender

And the returns are based on the lowest of those two numbers, but all other multipliers are still active.

If this was done instead ABs, CMs, BRs and normal landgrabs would all be unchanged while grabbing countries 10x your size would be seriously nerfed, which was the intention. I also dont see why the damage to the target is unchanged for grabs when its very much nerfed for special attacks that hit buildings. it has to be unintended.

KoHeartsGPA

Member

EE Patron
30,131

Nov 28th 2019, 0:47:40

Sounds like suiciders paradise...

Primeval

Game Moderator
Mod Boss
3128

Nov 28th 2019, 0:51:29

Originally posted by enshula:

...

gs was already a lot stronger and used more frequently than BR, ...

Depends on the server and time of war. If I think I may encounter a stonewall or if i really wanted to hurt restart potential, I'll go BR whenever possible. Many times I've eaten tons of GS all the way down to endless 5-civ hits wasting the other side's war turns when I normally wouldn't with incoming BR. An inexperienced hitter or warchat leader takes a while to notice one's remaining handful of pop isn't ending.

Gerdler

Forum Moderator
5117

Nov 28th 2019, 1:12:08

If the restart bonus is removed BRs become weaker just by that, they didnt need the building losses to be lowered imo and if anything GS and/or CDs should be what is weakened.

Red X

Member
5242

Nov 30th 2019, 16:41:06

I am still all for Diminishing returns on GS and BR to force hybrid kills. I would like to see ABs, Nukes, and EMs kill some pop at a lesser rate then GS or BR.

I think this would make wars more fun in the aspect that you would have to mix it up, or use more turns for a single type of kill.

Rey Rojo
Disgruntled Killer
——————————
Marked 4 Death
Vice President - Foreign Affairs
——————————
Coalies Twin

Gerdler

Forum Moderator
5117

Dec 1st 2019, 8:53:14

I really like it too especially since then that DR could be completely removed if the target logs in, thus making walling less counterproof.

allbymyself87

Member
894

Dec 5th 2019, 3:08:04

So, want to reconfirm, the restart bonus will be or will not be disabled/removed for coming new reset?

All by myself
Don't wanna be
All by myself anymore

Requiem

Member

EE Patron
9535

Dec 11th 2019, 0:54:25

Just to confirm no restart bonus also means anything you had on the market is lost as well?

Req,
- Premium Patron Member

Pang

Administrator
Game Development
5735

Dec 18th 2019, 3:45:17

I forgot to toggle off the restart bonus so it'll be on again for this round of Alliance.

Also, I forgot to turn this on for FFA/Tourny/Team restarts so right now it's just taking effect on Express and Alliance.

Sorry for the inconvenience!

-=Pang=-
Earth Empires Staff
pangaea [at] earthempires [dot] com

Boxcar - Earth Empires Clan & Alliance Hosting
http://www.boxcarhosting.com

enshula

Member

EE Patron
2510

Dec 18th 2019, 8:57:16

didnt you turn it off during last set then only turn it back on because wars were planned without it?

so this set wars were planned with the restart bonuses off wouldnt you turn it off midset by the same logic

enshula

Member

EE Patron
2510

Dec 18th 2019, 9:01:55

theres either 1 or 2 dead countries only at this point, one was self killed, not sure about the other one so it wouldnt have much impact at this point

This Game is Terrible 439 0 acres $685 M 0

Gerdler

Forum Moderator
5117

Dec 18th 2019, 16:20:52

Yeah if its going to be tried there is no reason not to try it from this set.

enshula

Member

EE Patron
2510

Dec 18th 2019, 19:03:34

would be good if this could be fixed quickly because it looks like there might be a kill happening soon with one country ABing another (with a semi reason though, got hit once)