I've brought this idea up in various threads in the past, but thought I'd make my own post about it.

I would like to see land be able to be sold on the public market. Not only would this introduce a new strategy (potentially) to the game (i.e. "land baron"), but it would probably help alleviate some of the issues pertaining to massive farming of untags, since you would no longer have land-grabbing as your only good option to gaining land once you are at your 6 acre explore rate.

I don't think this would eliminate grabbing either, since it would only increase the overall quantity of land on any given server.

Flame away!

Would you suggest that there should be rules in place for people who make landgrabs and then sell down their land to decrease the land taken in a retal?

Currently you can't drop more than you've gained to prevent suiciding, but if you can get top dollar for your land, then dropping after grabbing would be profitable but would prevent players from being able to regain their lost land.

Tertius - I think that rule would make a lot of sense; have some type of restriction which prevents you from selling land that you have grabbed within 24 hours (or something similar to that).

The server tends to be more L:L in taking retals anyway, so I'm not sure if this would be that big of an issue. It would just take another retal perhaps to gain back the land lost.

is the land vacant?
or fully built?

i think this is a great idea

I don't see this market ever being economically viable. The only time I can envision someone selling land at a reasonable price is during war after their buildings have been destroyed. If it were to be economically viable it would help techers the most since their income gain and their land gain are mutually exclusive whereas other strats can gain land while gaining income. Since I feel techer is in many ways already the strongest strategy (particularly early) this would not be helpful.

lincoln - I think the land would be vacant (although I guess you could always incorporate buildings in the future!)

Detmer - I disagree. The markets in EE seem to work very well in regards to supply and demand. Commodities with a weaker demand (i.e. oil) limit the amount of people who can play that strategy (you don't have a ton of oilers like you do techers or industrialists). The demand for land would be EXTREMELY high, thus making some type of explore strat a viable. I could see an acre of land selling for $500,000 and up on the public market (which could be quite profitable for someone).

You're right - I've done some math and it seems two strategies would emerge as viable - 3.6kish acre rep explorer land seller and fascist land buyer and private market food seller.... The land input to the server would be absolutely crazy.

I think that some more serious suggestions will have to go into this to curb this sort of abuse.

I like this...


1st good change that could create new strategys.


A change like this, and I might even be able to talk Cisco into returning. He's completely burned out on using all the same strategys for 10+ years.

There would be limits if u could only sell a certain percent think like if u were a ci maybe impose if uve gained over a thousand acres u can't sell it within 24 hours. If its grAbbed. And I'd say around 300_600k a acre would be realistic 1b gets u 1k acres 3000 turns and govt bonus with tech makes it marginally worthwhile time u through in reselling points I'd buy land. Like u say some servers would be cheaper or more expensive.4000 acres 2b 8000acres 4b seems pricey especially if a land reseller could make a billion a day at 4k acres that's too powerful. Needs some thought depends on prices tho. My figures were at 500k a acre

I remember this being discussed a few times over the years, and the conclusion was always that A. it would be horribly abused, and B. it would devalue grabbing too much.

NOW3P:

A) How would it be horribly abused? This isn't earth 2025, this is earth empires. You wouldn't be able to send mass quantities of land to one country because of standing orders.

B) I would argue it would INCREASE grabbing. There would be more land to grab.

speaking only of express

abusive cheaters will try to ruin any changes you consider, abusive cheaters will cheat regardless of whether you make changes or not

you can not let the cheaters stifle the game's growth

qz has said since at least last august that they are trying to increase grabbing

if you can grab land and then sell it, then qz's goal will be realized
if you have to hold on to it for nearly a quarter of the set before you can sell it, then it probably will not help

Corfu:

- Countries A-D are in a clan together
- Countries A, B, C spend stock buying land
- Country D farms countries A, B, C for land/stock.

It's no different than a FA chain (which folks piss and moan about all the time). And if you think self-farming is overboard in FFA (obviously another discussion), just wait and see what happens if this is implemented...

This will only further encourage people to internally and self farm in order to get land instead of risking grabbing. Besides, if you make land a marketable commodity, you could just buy land and not have to risk a retal. Even if you grab wisely, odds are pretty good land couldn't be made expensive enough to not outweigh the value of the net land gained by grabbing once a retal has been taken and still make it a viable market commodity at the same time.



It's a slightly different issue in independent servers, but again, I see a problem with market sold land outweighing the benefits of grabbing and getting retalled - unless it was ungodly expensive, the net would likely be better w/ grabbing.

llaar's FFA landtrade exploits should show you how getting a lot of land can quickly spiral out of hand for everyone else.

.4 bushels/barren acre gets to be really powerful.

NOW3P:

(1) I agree that your scenario COULD happen, but DOES it happen? Very rarely. There isn't a problem with people running landfarms in alliance server right now, and I don't think making land a marketable commodity would change that. Fact is, people aren't going to play the game simply to let someone else farm them. That just doesn't happen.

(2) I do think that my proposed change would probably increase land-trading in alliance server. But that is a problem that needs to be addressed separately (perhaps make it impossible to grab countries in your same alliance, or greatly reduce the gains you would receive from grabbing a country in your own alliance).

Detmer - I agree with you, but that is FFA. That has its own issues!

Corfu - see Alliance Talk re: NA FA chains and internal farming by clans. Yes, it happens quite often.

It could probably be set so a player can only sell CURRENT LAND * 0.5...

More for a theo who stocks on 8-9k acres and wants to double or triple their land. They would be able to tech earlier and longer, even with a mid set conversion they would be @ goal acres faster especially if the acres were bought pre-built.

... a 2.5k acre rep rainbow might end up being a powerhouse :)
This would allow a country to sell 2.5K acres per day as an all explore or as an aggressive land grabber.

80 turns * 32 acres --- BPT = 100 approx 105 turns to double land if sold @400k per acre country would make just under 10 mil per turn.

--- these can be bought pre-built from a low acre country cheap.
--- or at least significantly cheaper then cost of military/oil and building those acres out yourself. Not to mention cost of production turns especially techers. 10 turns could cost 100 mil

of course there will still be those who hit and farm other countries and will see this as just an extra avenue to get more land or income. But it should slow down some of the bottom feeding on the servers.

Demo Farmers would definitely benefit from the land sale if they explored or hit all set for more land. Land grabbers sitting on 50K acres could trim their countries to 25-30K and maybe pickup almost $10 bil from selling off 25k acres. Just depends on what those acres are worth.

This would definitely be good for anyone who land grabs for high acres 10 hits a day could bring in an extra billion per day just from land sales.

2500 acres * 400K per acre = $1 bil.

This is almost 50 mil per turn for land grabbers if the return is around 250 acres per 2 turn attack;)

of course if the market gets flooded with land it would drop dramatically so it could create an optimum condition for land grabbers with some really land fat countries ;)

Nice for wars too ... put 5K acres on the market @ 400K and come out with 2 bil in cash to stonewall or buy extra troops with :)