So if most of the alliances self farm just to be competitive and a few out there are adamantly against it, why not adopt a policy banning it from the game and then getting together to enforce it?

I can only think of one alliance that lives by it. Hell, they'd probably lose a ton of their 1A treehuggers because of it, making this server more competitive without huge outliers at 475 countries.

no cause i dont actually think they are hurtin others. im against it and if i can get a peice of them ill happily grab. they just aint in any way harmin others to go to that scale of a defensive measure against the self farmin policy

i would be down for that.

90% of the server running next to no military really fluffs up the market when im trying to run some commies lol

I'd stop doing it if everyone else did etc. /shrug

I do think that if we increased landgrabbing to the point where self farmers could not keep their land, it would balance out on its own. I do not want to see this much self farming, but I do not want to eliminate it 100%, as many people play just for that.

I am up for finding a solution that is acceptable to everyone without eliminating people who play completely. And any solution that increases landgrabbing between clans server wide is a good one.

Make FFAa and FFAb where one only allows self farming and one bans it, but have shared markets. :P

Hey, awesome idea!

Next let's tell people what kind of grabs they can make, who they should be grabbing, when they can grab, and how many of their 16 they can use to grab while we're at it....

Also, I'm guessing you were referring to Alliance, not 1a? Not many folks play together in Team (not 1a, 1a is gone).

Also also, there are 4-5 clans that are heavily self-farming this set, not just.


If folks want to make it an actual rule that self farming is not allowable, I know LaE will be happy to comply. Until then....go fluff yourself.

Well if LAE is willing to comply, I know a few other big clans that are willing to do that too. I think stopping self farming altogether is quite possible.

Oh look. LaE guy doesn't like the idea. Let me find my shocked face. I know its around here somewhere.





Yes, we are aware more alliances do it. And I believe I mentioned that in my original post.

I then said only one alliance lives by it.

Try and keep up, sweetheart.

It isnt just one alliance lives by it, I think NBK is the only major tag that bans it. The rest just do it to various amounts, and obviously the bigger the tag the more it happens.

what about a cap on the total land a country can have? Maybe like 40-50k? Obviously people selffarming would still get an unfair advantage but it would even it up a bit. Or just limit the amount of grabs you can do on yourself to maybe 1 a day?

No, I think, as usual, you chose to focus on just one alliance and phrase it in the guise of multiple alliances.

Sheesh - I can understand having poor reading comprehension. But poor writing comprehension?

I don't think that would work, as I can see getting to 50k land without self farming. The thing is people realise that people will not landgrab them, so they have no reason at all to get defenses. Once you have defenses self farming becomes that much more difficult, especially with the loss of acres.

It's not difficult at all to carry 1 mil+ def as a self farmer. The one set I tried it, all my farms were carrying at least that. It's just that people are lazy/greedy in most cases.

I have the feeling Some Guy wakes up everyday with morning wood after dreaming about LaE in his sleep.

when llaar self farmed himself to the top it was such a great accomplishment, now when others do it its wrong....oh well

Some Guy, do you even play on this server? And if so where?

I'll play the game however I damn well please. Why don't you all stop being fluffing babies and do something about it or shut the fluff up.

You can whine and whine and whine, and say it takes no skill, but they still have more NW that you and that is the only thing that technically matters scoring wise in this game so STFU

OOPS! Double fail in one thread, NOW3P.
Think you can go for the hat trick?

I don't see the issue in self farming.

Once again:

Some Guy, do you even play on this server? And if so where?

We need more n00bs playing.

I farm self farmers for fun.... at least I will tomorrow!

FACEBOOK!

Third time is the charm:

Some Guy, do you even play on this server? And if so where?

probably because you are doing it lol
when you have to spend 15 bill buying out the troops to get the prices back to 120...there's a problem.

market needs people other then NBK buying from it :P

Which is ironic because NBK is also producing most of it.

The problem with it is that it's completely against the main spirit of the game (at least I see it that way), which I would say is to play multiple countries in a way to achieve as best as you can with them.

Of course, having said that, I've done very well for myself following llaar's blueprint to easy land by doing the land-trading between countries thing this set, so I can't say I'm innocent of self-farming.

It'd make it a much more unpredictable and interesting game if we all went back to grabbing.

Also, I find most of the reasons for why self-farming is better to be crap.

Silly reason #1: If Random Self Farmer only hits himself, it doesn't affect the rest of us.

This is, of course, false, for the very reason Popcom brought up. If you're not worried about having to defend yourself from retals and you're not worried about getting enough jets to break reasonable targets, you're not utilizing the market. Then we have a market where industrialist is only really a feasible strategy for the first few hundred turns until the market turns to crap. TMBR also turns into a pretty crappy strategy too, as it's much more beneficial to just continue stocking than it is to get military that you can't sell (especially if you're playing the 0 base reseller mode, where you'd hardly be profiting on the current market prices).

Silly reason #2: The top players are going to end up with the same amount of land anyway, so it's better off for the rest of us.

This one I find to be total bullfluff. Now, if a big clan like NBK, LaE or PAN wanted to be total bullies to smaller clans, I suppose this is true, but if llaar (using him as an example simply because he is so proficient at making very fat countries) wasn't self-farming and got himself up to 100k acres by farming smaller tags, he's either going to have to buy some crazy defense in that country or he isn't going to keep it. Normal grabbing/retalling rules of 1:1 on normal hits help the competitive balance, and unless someone is willing to start pushing for the lame 1a L:L idea, someone with 100k acres isn't going to keep that land, because other players would find a way to make landgrabs that would prevent them from keeping that land. It would turn into a situation where the best players would have to try to figure out just how much land they can maintain with the amount of defense they're willing to buy.

Again, I'm not innocent here. For the first half of the set, I probably ranked in the top 5, at least top 10 players in land farmed from myself until I was getting near my land goals. So I'm not aiming the finger of blame squarely at anyone, not even LaE who has historically used far more self-farming and has been far more effective at it, than most anyone else.

Would the server be more interesting and probably more fun if self-farming were not tolerated? Probably so. Would I encourage it? Definitely.

But on the other hand, I don't see it happening, because people are being successful with self-farming, and I know that if I could find a competitive edge over other people that's within the rules (as self-farming clearly is), I wouldn't want to give that up if I was better at it than everyone else, too.

Lastly, to address SG's last point about LaE being too big:

Losing more players is not what this server needs. I'd love to see clans like NBK, LaE and PANLV be a bit smaller if the result was to have more clans/alliances around. (And I say this as a member of PANLV)

I'm not a fan of seeing any clan lose members if the result is fewer people playing on this server.

probably will come down to, the ones who dont wanna self farm, are going to make the ones that do, make better countries to hold that land.

also, fluff L:L and all who try to enforce it lol

Just because it makes some strategies more effective and other strategies less effective does not mean it hurts other people. Just because you chose to play indy does not mean you should get good prices. Tons of sets I play techer and prices blow or food is too high, or whatever. Just because some people are using a strategy that changes the game does not mean it is bad or harmful.

If you want prices to go up so bad start a damn war. I think no wars happening on this server are more to blame than self farmers.

Just because the market isn't working how you want or the strategy you played isn't as good doesn't make it my problem as a self farmer. I have had 4 huge theos that I have wanted to resell with all set and the military market has been fluff, it is how it goes.


boobs

I am not complaining about self farming, I am just saying that if everyone grabbed more things would balance out. Right now everyone is afraid of retals, and most people think that someone is bullying them if they get hit as a result of no military. If it wasn't just NBK hitting, if everyone was hitting, then the big fat self farmers would be parred down to the point where it wouldn't be an easy strat.

People are afraid to hit, and this is the result.

I agree that self-farming should be done away with in some fashion or another, but until it is, people need to get used to the idea that it's going to happen, and that it's going to happen on large scales as it's extremely beneficial to the farmer.

Adjust your play accordingly, and please, ffs, shut the fluff up about it already....

I think that has more to do with pacts than self-farming which has always and probably will always be a "problem"

What it has the most to do with is the availability..check that.. the unavailability of land.

With a player population as low as it is, and clans being allowed to be as big as, say LAE, if self-farming is done away with:

A) Some people will quit playing. Due to being farmed or because they can't self-farm.

B) Players will run to the bigger clans and make them even bigger.

C) More wars over land. Which is great for guys who love to war, but for netters, please see possibility A above.

Why not limit clans to 10 players for a total of 160 member countries?

Why not increase the explore rates for land while increasing diminishing returns and lowering acres gained (plus ghost acres)on grabs?

Why not cap country size at, say, 35K acres? That could be done via prohibitive land taxation on acres over 35K similar to corruption on cash over $2 Billion.

I'm not defending self farming, but of those of who who oppose it so much, what's your biggest complaint about it? How is it hurting you? How is it hurting the game?

I mean personally, I wouldn't mind seeing self-farming eliminated either but I can choose to not do it if I don't like it.

I do not really oppose self farming itself, what I oppose is lack of player interaction with the game... with other players... other clans. Right now for the bulk of clans the only time you do anything with other people is when you are killing or being killed. I have had countries for the last 3 sets when I was playing, and not one grab on me. NOT ONE.

Self farming made landgrabbing obsolete. I want to be attacked, I want to attack, I want people to try to defend themselves.
Not this nonsense of sitting there with your 16 doing absolutely nothing other then attacking yourself.

I do respect those 16 country clans with good NW. They know how to play, they retal, they have enough military to defend their land, that is how I like it.

Smaller clans would help greatly Dragon, I admit.
I actually admire Dynasty, granted they don't know how to defend their land military wise, but they are fast on the retals, and keep up with em. I just wish they would grab other people more.

Probably the main reason why this hasn't come up before is because NBK was warring. And being the only clan that actually bans self farming, it wasn't much of a general FFA issue.

All I can say is, everyone, grab everyone more.

I agree with Dragon. Twain and I were talking about this last night.

I guarantee you one thing, if LaE and others stop self farming those 16 person clans will have 100 defends every 24 hours at least and will never break 1 mil NW. Many of the people self farming a "good netgainers" anyhow and are more the proficient at farming the fluff out of untagged countries (if there are any) or small tags and enforcing ridiculous policies to keep it that way.

I predict L:L retals if self farming and ghost acres disappear

Ozzite: For the most part, I agree with what you're saying. The market sucking for any individual player isn't really reason to avoid doing something.

However, I think this is different because it actually affects the same strategies over and over again. It's not just that too many people ended up playing techer so the tech market sucks THIS set. It's that a particular strat will no longer really be viable at all under current conditions.

But again, until either the admins tweak the game more to eliminate the benefits of self-farming or the big clans come together and agree to ban and police it, it's just discussion for the sake of discussion.

I think saying they would have 100 defends is a bit ridiculous, but if people did stop self farming I can see land trading between large clans go up to say 50 hits a day, plus retals. Once hits get over a certain point everyone just retals and slows down their hits.

But one can't say "if I can't attack myself, everyone else will die", cause it was only for the last few sets where self farming was so commonplace. The old FFA, it was done, but only to a limited extent. And old FFA worked. Although more players would help too.

Old FFA everyone was too busy getting killed by bots to get killed by each other :-P

Has anyone actually seen a player quit because of being farmed?

I know a lot of new players drop out of the game before ever joining a tag (c'mon guys, it's a tag server, the intention is that you SHOULD join a tag if you want to play here)....but has anyone actually ever gotten verification that farming is the reason they quit?

It seems a broad assumption based on personal biases to just apply farming as a catch all reason why new players leave the game to me.

Yeah, the last line's the big point there. There were tens of thousands of countries in the old FFA, not like 2-3k.

1a's a clear example of what could happen here without self-farming.. every untag and <5 man tag gets farmed every day.

I like the "single player" aspect of FFA, where I can just compete with myself and other clanmates who are selffarming to get the highest nw or combination of Nw's as possible, which I can't do in any other server. The possibility of self-farming is really what makes FFA different than the rest of the servers for me.

In 1a I end up just waiting around camping for countries to come out of DR to be able to hit them.. I really don't have the patience to do that in FFA with 16 heh.

Yes with less pacts it would make grabbing more viable in FFA, but once you begin stocking, having to landtrade and buy up all the time ot retal is just a royal pain in the ass.

Well it would appear that NBK has decided to follow Some Guy's suggestion and become the land farm police but don't have the balls to do it against someone their size.

No, we go where the land is. Especiallu easy land.

Yeah. That's why you loaded up with 11 million jets to grab one of my countries.

"Easy Land"


Asshole

Yeah, 11m jets and 1m turrets. That's the fluff that makes me wish there was L:L here sometimes.

I deleted my countries. It's not worth it.

fluff man, dunno if you had to go that far.

Spy on me I only sent half of what I had. Whixh was oversending. So don't get all self rightcheous it cost an 11k acre country 2 days income to buy what I sent.

I know what you did, you know what you did, and we both know WHY you did it.

Hope you're happy, asshole. Feel big and studly strong now.

Actually havok I have 18 m turrets and tech and 6m troops... Please don't accuse me of running a jetter.