was founded by American slaves. Even though they have a history of enslaving fellow blacks, they are poor even by African standards.

Which reminds me of another similar country which experienced the world's first slave revolt and first black rule.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=but6vGRSqIg

Not to be appearing racist here, but, there has NEVER been a successfull Black led nation, not in recorded history at least.

that does do something with the color? or with the mentality and the attitudes towards their fellows...

Something to consider

That might be the most ignorant post ever to appear on Earth's forums.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

Was Egypt not part of "recorded history"?

abassynia did alright there, what with avoiding european rule and all.

oh wait, that would place the blame on the filthy white man.. fluff that, we then place it on the filthy ital man!

Show me a modern successful Black Nation then, Fooglmog. Just one, any one.

america is run by a black man.

oh, you stipulated successful, fair enough, i got nothing.

When the Europeans arrived in Africa they often found successful civilizations.
Abassynia, which Braden mentioned, being one of them.

Magellaan, I specifically stated "modern" not "pre-historic", just sayin'.

Cerb,

I assume you know the history of Africa and why they are in their current state. Most African countries have been under European rule for centuries, so you must remember the majority of African countries are LESS THAN 60 YEARS OLD!

So aside from Africa:

Bermuda is a fairly successful black country. Income per person is high & 2.7% unemployment.

oh, not to mention the red scare, eric. how many stable but left leaning governments did truman and ike topple? and we haven't even reached jfk yet!

i cant believe they allow Watertowers to have internet

Cerberus, I find it sort of ironic that having put so much emphasis into the fact that there has "NEVER been a successfull[sic] Black led nation", you're now getting anal about only talking about "modern" nations.

Fortunately, your attempt to back out of your idiotic position doesn't make it a whole lot harder to prove you wrong. Now, keeping in mind that "modern", "successful" and "black nation" are all terms whose meanings are debatable, let me give you a small sample of your ignorance.

The Bahamas, are a stable parliamentary democracy for 40 years, with a Net GDP only slightly lower than that of France, Britain or Japan (UN, 2011). The population is approximately 85% black, with a black Prime Minister. This is an open and shut case, an undeniably successful modern nation which is predominantly black and led by a black government.

Equitorial Guinea is another example, with an even higher Net GDP -- still near to, but slightly ahead of Britain, France and Japan. This is despite one of the most tragic histories of any nation in the world. Their accomplishments are almost entirely their own, and awfully impressive.

Seychelles, Trinidad and Barbados are all very similar stories to the Bahamas, though with net GDPs closer to Israel, Saudi Arabia and Russia respectively. Stable, democratic, strong economies. Hard to argue against their success.

I also find it hard to quantify South Africa, Nigeria or Egypt as anything but "successful nations"... at least, not without limiting the number of "successful nations" to about 20 -- the vast majority of which would be European. All three have problems, but nothing beyond those common in all but a handful of other countries.

You challenged me to name one, there's a half dozen. You can take issue with any individual one you like, you won't be able to dismiss them all. Even within your backed-down criteria, you're still flat out wrong.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

^Equitorial Guinea is a horrible example, vast majority of the population is mired in poverty and the GDP is just due to oil wealth which ius concentrated in the hands of a fwe

most continental African countries just don't fit the definition of "successful" nations, but a bunch of black led nations do

Truth is, South Africa was thriving until the black took over. Now AIDs and crime are rampant. The black president Mbeki refused to admit AIDs was caused by HIV.

South Africa provides an important historical lesson, as the efforts of an entire world to stifle the country was not able to prevent a white ruled country from exceeding, in every way, all its black peers combined.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/...read.php?threadid=3336921

I have to agree with Watertowers that other than Zimbabwe, South Africa might be the worst possible country to cite as an example of the success of black rule. Nigeria is #14 on the failed state index, also a horrid example. As for Egypt, I have never heard Arabs considered as black unless I'm missing something?

I don't agree with Watertowers but I didn't want Fooglmogs silly post to go unchecked.

How so? South Africa may not have the stability of, say, Holland, but it's certainly on par with Turkey, or Mexico. I won't argue that it has a number of issues -- but in order to disqualify it from a list of successful nations, you'd have to disqualify all but a handful of nations around the world.


I was going to write a long response explaining my basis for including Egypt on my list of "black nations"*. But instead, I'm just going to laugh at the fact that you think Egyptians are Arabs (a view supported by no one).

(Effectively, there's a lot of debate over whether or not Egyptians are part of the larger black racial identity [http://en.wikipedia.org/...ation_Statement_on_Race-2] but since the American Anthropological Association rejects the view that racial identity has any validity in the study of human biology [http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm], I chose to interpret "black" as meaning "of African descent").


Right back at you.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

Oh, and to prevent us getting too distracted:

Cerberus stated that there has "NEVER been a successfull[sic] Black led nation" (he later amended this to include "modern"). I provided a list of countries that I think qualify.

I provided a list, instead of one, because the definitions the "black", "modern" and "successful" are all debatable. I expected that not everyone would accept that every country on the list met all three criteria.

However, unless you can honestly state that you don't think any country I mentioned belongs on the list, my point remains intact... the rest is just window-dressing.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

Watertowers you are the definition of racist, crawl back in the hole you climbed out of!

[quote poster=Fooglmog; 19139; 422478]
How so? South Africa may not have the stability of, say, Holland, but it's certainly on par with Turkey, or Mexico. I won't argue that it has a number of issues -- but in order to disqualify it from a list of successful nations, you'd have to disqualify all but a handful of nations around the world.


I was going to write a long response explaining my basis for including Egypt on my list of "black nations"*. But instead, I'm just going to laugh at the fact that you think Egyptians are Arabs (a view supported by no one).

(Effectively, there's a lot of debate over whether or not Egyptians are part of the larger black racial identity [http://en.wikipedia.org/...ation_Statement_on_Race-2] but since the American Anthropological Association rejects the view that racial identity has any validity in the study of human biology [http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm], I chose to interpret "black" as meaning "of African descent").


Right back at you.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue. [/quote]

Wrong again...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs

http://english.alarabiya.net/...ws/2012/09/10/237140.html

"I spent the next couple of days interviewing hundreds of Egyptians– not just academics and researchers but also laymen and women in different districts in Cairo — asking how they view themselves. My question raised a few eyebrows among people on the streets, the majority of whom replied ” I’m a Muslim Arab, of course ” or “an Arab Muslim .” They shrugged their shoulders and looked perplexed as they responded for wasn’t it an already-known fact that Egyptians are Arabs and that Egypt has a majority Muslim population ?

A few of the interviewees said that they “were descendants of the Pharoahs” but surprisingly, none in the sample interviewed thought of themselves as Africans."

That got screwed up.

Wrong again...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs

http://english.alarabiya.net/...ws/2012/09/10/237140.html

"I spent the next couple of days interviewing hundreds of Egyptians– not just academics and researchers but also laymen and women in different districts in Cairo — asking how they view themselves. My question raised a few eyebrows among people on the streets, the majority of whom replied ” I’m a Muslim Arab, of course ” or “an Arab Muslim .” They shrugged their shoulders and looked perplexed as they responded for wasn’t it an already-known fact that Egyptians are Arabs and that Egypt has a majority Muslim population ?

A few of the interviewees said that they “were descendants of the Pharoahs” but surprisingly, none in the sample interviewed thought of themselves as Africans."

modern PanArabism was born in Eqypt under Nasser