Deletions for Transparency II / Two days ago bug event

qzjul

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Game Development
10,263

Mar 18th 2023, 1:44:54

Hi All,

I went through some of the other sorts of things that could have caused issues with the country_events table, and remembered that FA packages create a country event. So there was a bug where you could SEND an FA package, but then *not have it removed* from your country. But the other country would receive it.

There were a couple of pretty minor packages that were sent, before a pair of countries seem to figure out that this was a thing, and sent FA packages in a loop a couple of times. They have now been deleted for exploiting a bug.

The initial few seem incidental and small, but I'll do my best to wipe away anything from the explicit exploitation.

Thanks for bearing with me,

- qzjul

Edited By: qzjul on Mar 18th 2023, 4:47:32
See Original Post

Finally did the signature thing.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Mar 18th 2023, 1:45:17

(Incidentally there were no FA packages on any server other than Alliance during this window)

Finally did the signature thing.

Coalie

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Mar 18th 2023, 1:59:28

Blackhole: blah blah blah my enemies are cheaters booohoo wah wah wah. Laf don’t cheat they’re the good guys Bs bs bs bs

558 599 from LAF got caught. More to follow

Xavier

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EE Patron
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Mar 18th 2023, 2:16:21

And the plot thickens...

EE Alliance
Sons of Liberty
Myrmidons
Survival of the Fittest
------------------
E2025 Alliance & Limited
Survival of the Fittest
RaZTa
Ragnarok
Survival of the Fittest 4a
Valkyries
Valhalla

Tertius

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Mar 18th 2023, 2:19:32

Really appreciate you spending the time to find all of the edge cases - it's an old game, so the fact you are dedicated to this type of fairness means a lot.

mdevol

Member
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Mar 18th 2023, 2:31:26

Thank you, QZ.

Surely what a man does when he is caught off his guard is the best evidence as to what sort of man he is. - C.S. Lewis

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Mar 18th 2023, 2:44:29

Originally posted by Tertius:

Really appreciate you spending the time to find all of the edge cases - it's an old game, so the fact you are dedicated to this type of fairness means a lot.

:-) I Try!

Finally did the signature thing.

SuperFly

Member
5105

Mar 18th 2023, 3:57:10

Wow great stuff QZ. Thanks for digging in.

Now where are all of the pitch fork LaF guys and Black Hole now? Bug exploiting cheaters!!!

Suicidal

Member
2239

Mar 18th 2023, 4:03:23

I hate a cheater

Gerdler

Forum Moderator
5077

Mar 18th 2023, 9:24:59

Well done QZ, thank you for your continued work and for clarifying what happened and how it was dealt with!

Gerdler

Forum Moderator
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Mar 18th 2023, 9:29:03

It might be good to make as a feature a once daily backup and roll back to that one if such a problem occurs in the future.

BlackHole

Member
1196

Mar 18th 2023, 9:51:13

Originally posted by SuperFly:

Wow great stuff QZ. Thanks for digging in.

Now where are all of the pitch fork LaF guys and Black Hole now? Bug exploiting cheaters!!!

I was sleeping, Superfly. But now that I'm awake, I'll chime in since you asked for it.

The LaF guys that abused this bug should be deleted, that was cheating. I'm glad QZ had the ability to find the additional cheaters, even after we thought there had been no other cheating going on. The fact that he put the effort into looking harder into things is pretty awesome for our game.

Shame on those LaF countries for cheating. You knew better. No reason to do that.

Happy, Superfly?

Mr Gainsboro

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Mar 18th 2023, 10:00:40

Good work qz :-)

Don of LaF

Shweezy

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Mar 18th 2023, 10:24:52

Originally posted by Gerdler:

Well done QZ, thank you for your continued work and for clarifying what happened and how it was dealt with!

Sucky sucky

Originally posted by Mr Gainsboro:

Good work qz :-)

Chug chug

Catch me on ir c

SuperFly

Member
5105

Mar 18th 2023, 13:09:33

Originally posted by Gerdler:

It might be good to make as a feature a once daily backup and roll back to that one if such a problem occurs in the future.

windows restore point style lol

Requiem

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Mar 18th 2023, 13:44:00

Well well well what do we have here...

Gains can I call you all cheaters now as you did us? Or do you, now, realize that you cannot control people?

Cathankins

Member
1073

Mar 18th 2023, 13:45:49

Originally posted by Tertius:

Really appreciate you spending the time to find all of the edge cases - it's an old game, so the fact you are dedicated to this type of fairness means a lot.

This and galleri is always on top of things lately as well it’s been very cool

SuperFly

Member
5105

Mar 18th 2023, 13:51:14

Originally posted by Requiem:

Well well well what do we have here...

Gains can I call you all cheaters now as you did us? Or do you, now, realize that you cannot control people?

Of course you can blanket call them cheaters. If there is ever an exploit to abuse LaF will find it, benefit from and it and call it a “test”.

Oh is Gains gonna call me SuperCry again for calling them cheaters? Highly likely but that’s cool now that they lost their moral high ground lol

Requiem

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Mar 18th 2023, 16:40:29

I would say their cheating was more egregious because it was not out in the open, and for all I know, they were trying to conceal it. You didn't see LaF combing their alliance to find their own potential exploiters, but you did see their leader on IRC yelling and calling everyone on their opposing side a bunch of cheaters that should all get deleted.

Should the entire LaF tag get deleted?

This smells awfully of an instance where information was looked up about an enemy of theirs in hiding that they just happened to kill. Lucky guess? I doubt it.

They are a clan full of cheaters, and they are smart enough to hide it better.

Edited By: Requiem on Mar 18th 2023, 16:43:55

Captain Control

Member
67

Mar 18th 2023, 16:57:48

Originally posted by qzjul:

Hey Qz,

Are you reinstating the dead countries that were attacked by these two cheaters?

Doesn't seem fair to me if these 2 cheaters participated in multiple kill runs and actually BROKE a legitimate countries defenses.
Even if they didn't land the killing blow. Check which countries they attacked between the time of their NW jump and you deleting their countries.

Thanks for dedicating time to audit the tables and help restore balance to the game for everyone who is trying to play legitimately.

Look for the Greek Mythology references and bring a beer! 🍺

mdevol

Member
3223

Mar 18th 2023, 17:10:16

Id even argue that the countries #599 and #558 hit (even broke a couple of them) post- exploit should be reinstated. Ill let my leaders and those directly impact deal with that though.

Also, WZ and Suicidal were forthcoming after the glitch. I commend them for being honest and owning to what happened and accepting the consequences.

I have yet to see that from these two LaF players.

Surely what a man does when he is caught off his guard is the best evidence as to what sort of man he is. - C.S. Lewis

Pontius Pirate

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Mar 18th 2023, 17:12:47

All players who exploited the bug should have at minimum a one set ban from the game

Originally posted by Cerberus:

This guy is destroying the U.S. Dollars position as the preferred exchange for international trade. The Chinese Ruan is going to replace it soon, then the U.S. will not have control of the IMF

mdevol

Member
3223

Mar 18th 2023, 17:35:38

Originally posted by Pontius Pirate:

All players who exploited the bug should have at minimum a one set ban from the game

If that is a policy going forward, I can get behind that. Cant implement it on the fly though.

Surely what a man does when he is caught off his guard is the best evidence as to what sort of man he is. - C.S. Lewis

Pontius Pirate

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Mar 18th 2023, 18:26:51

Originally posted by mdevol:

Originally posted by Pontius Pirate:

All players who exploited the bug should have at minimum a one set ban from the game

If that is a policy going forward, I can get behind that. Cant implement it on the fly though.

why should the assumption / precedent be that exploiting bugs doesn't lead to bans unless explicitly warned? Seems clear to me I'm that doing so should have serious consequences

Originally posted by Cerberus:

This guy is destroying the U.S. Dollars position as the preferred exchange for international trade. The Chinese Ruan is going to replace it soon, then the U.S. will not have control of the IMF

galleri

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13,988

Mar 18th 2023, 18:48:45

Good stuff qzjul. Thanks for spending the middle of the night looking at things still.

Originally posted by mdevol:

Also, WZ and Suicidal were forthcoming after the glitch. I commend them for being honest and owning to what happened and accepting the consequences.

I have yet to see that from these two LaF players.

Except Weezy continues to now act like he didn't do anything wrong and is demanding his money back for a broken game.
*rolling eyes* :/
I think if someone is going to be honest and own up, they also should be humble.

Edited By: galleri on Mar 18th 2023, 18:51:40

https://gyazo.com/...b3bb28dddf908cdbcfd162513

Kahuna: Ya you just wrote the fkn equation, not helping me at all. Lol n I hated algebra.

galleri

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Mar 18th 2023, 18:53:06

Originally posted by Requiem:

Actually to clear this up for you. Gerdler was helping Qz last night with this.

https://gyazo.com/...b3bb28dddf908cdbcfd162513

Kahuna: Ya you just wrote the fkn equation, not helping me at all. Lol n I hated algebra.

Coalie

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Mar 18th 2023, 19:00:02

Originally posted by galleri:

Originally posted by Requiem:

Actually to clear this up for you. Gerdler was helping Qz last night with this.

Oh wow that’s some sort of great control system you have there. LOL explains a lot. Might as well have Gains be the judge, Hash be the jury and Karnage be the executioner too.

BlackHole

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Mar 18th 2023, 19:09:03

I think we can all agree that I should be the judge/jury/executioner. I am the only trustworthy person around here.

Requiem

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Mar 18th 2023, 19:12:34

Credibility is a valuable currency and you’re bankrupt :)

galleri

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Mar 18th 2023, 19:12:45

Originally posted by Coalie:

Originally posted by galleri:

Originally posted by Requiem:

Actually to clear this up for you. Gerdler was helping Qz last night with this.

Oh wow that’s some sort of great control system you have there. LOL explains a lot. Might as well have Gains be the judge, Hash be the jury and Karnage be the executioner too.

Check your team country name.

https://gyazo.com/...b3bb28dddf908cdbcfd162513

Kahuna: Ya you just wrote the fkn equation, not helping me at all. Lol n I hated algebra.

Suicidal

Member
2239

Mar 18th 2023, 19:19:08

Originally posted by galleri:

Originally posted by Requiem:

Actually to clear this up for you. Gerdler was helping Qz last night with this.

I just live trapped a Fox to watch over my Hen House

Coalie

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Mar 18th 2023, 19:23:18

Originally posted by Suicidal:

Originally posted by galleri:

Originally posted by Requiem:

Actually to clear this up for you. Gerdler was helping Qz last night with this.

I just live trapped a Fox to watch over my Hen House

That’s like a dirty cop committing a crime and then the police chief tasks the dirty cop to investigate the crime.

mdevol

Member
3223

Mar 18th 2023, 19:24:16

Galleri, if I exploit a bug to gain resources and then before my country is discovered and deleted, I break a country during a kill run, what should happen? Should they get their country back, or is it just collateral damage?

Just something to think about/consider going forward in changing or adding rules and policies.

Surely what a man does when he is caught off his guard is the best evidence as to what sort of man he is. - C.S. Lewis

Requiem

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Mar 18th 2023, 19:28:58

Originally posted by Suicidal:

Originally posted by galleri:

Originally posted by Requiem:

Actually to clear this up for you. Gerdler was helping Qz last night with this.

I just live trapped a Fox to watch over my Hen House

Not until _after_ we provided Qz info to look at lol… Quit spinning.

HH

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Mar 18th 2023, 19:29:05

This entire mess is because it is not possible to restore the database. If regular backups would be taken, and the code had been written in such a way that restoring an old backup could work, then there would not be a problem if/when a glitch occurs.

But if its not possible I doubt anybody would want to put down the time to make it possible, not for a game with 100 active players...

HeadHunter

Coalie

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Mar 18th 2023, 19:35:44

Originally posted by HH:

Yeah, if there was a possible way to restore the old backups, then there no way a bunch of cheaters would intentionally game the system and then try to hide it. They even had the audacity to bring out the pitchforks and goin after Sui and Weezy for openly doing it and then reporting it. At least sui and weezy stepped up and was honest about it. What about the 2 laf countries? Are they going to come forward and explain themselves? Weird how LAF hasn’t put out the names of their transgressors.

Who knows how many other LAF countries have exploited and game the system, apparently the corrupt cop is investigating his own corrupt police force.

Edited By: Coalie on Mar 18th 2023, 19:39:35
See Original Post

Suicidal

Member
2239

Mar 18th 2023, 19:40:41

Originally posted by HH:

You should have Gerdler look into it. It is a good idea. Not sure if his team of qz, pang, slagpit and gains would have the time to do it for him.

galleri

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Mar 18th 2023, 20:31:04

Originally posted by mdevol:

If qzjul added such tools for the mods to do such a thing. Then I would be happy to do it.

mdevol, I appreciate how you ask questions and respond to things. You are super respectful. Thank you.

Edited By: galleri on Mar 18th 2023, 20:52:53

https://gyazo.com/...b3bb28dddf908cdbcfd162513

Kahuna: Ya you just wrote the fkn equation, not helping me at all. Lol n I hated algebra.

galleri

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Mar 18th 2023, 20:34:54

Originally posted by Requiem:

Originally posted by Suicidal:

Originally posted by galleri:

Originally posted by Requiem:

Actually to clear this up for you. Gerdler was helping Qz last night with this.

I just live trapped a Fox to watch over my Hen House

Not until _after_ we provided Qz info to look at lol… Quit spinning.

So if this comment was towards me.
I wasn't being an asshat here with a spin or anything. I was actually legit just answering what I know.
So no need to be an ass.

https://gyazo.com/...b3bb28dddf908cdbcfd162513

Kahuna: Ya you just wrote the fkn equation, not helping me at all. Lol n I hated algebra.

Requiem

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Mar 18th 2023, 20:52:47

Not being an ass, what I said certainly wasn't something an _asshole_ would say, but don't contradict what I say for no reason other than because you can.

SuperFly

Member
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Mar 18th 2023, 23:23:05

Hahaha yea I like the corrupt cop analogy. Let me get the most unbiased LaF guy to police his own squad of LaF guys. The same guy that wanted Black Hole to suicide Tmac so that “he isn’t handed the victory and the new NW record” which he won’t be able to challenge cuz he will be busy fighting a war for many sets to come…

galleri

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Mar 18th 2023, 23:37:22

I think this thread and the other has gone open long enough.
Attacking a mod's answer is not what this about.

https://gyazo.com/...b3bb28dddf908cdbcfd162513

Kahuna: Ya you just wrote the fkn equation, not helping me at all. Lol n I hated algebra.