Verified:

midevil.chaos Game profile

Member
202

Feb 7th 2014, 20:23:07

GDI is useless, period. So what, it protects against certain attacks and land differential (correct me if I'm wrong). But, it just isn't useful aside from that. Why does the GDI not be used for the following:

For all intent and purposes, I will use the 1A Server as an example with around 600 players.

- GDI members cannot be attacked if the attacker is more than 30 ranks below
- GDI members may be attacked if the attacker is more than 30 ranks above (with a penalty discussed in my last point)
- GDI members cannot be attacked if the land differential is 50%
- GDI members can attack if the land differential is 50%

- Any alliance LEADER should be able to deactivate GDI for an enemy. Imagine X Alliance wants to dec war on Clan Y. Thus, X Alliance has 6 hours, after removing the GDI status from ALL members of their enemy, to dish out at least 25 attacks on said enemy. Upon failure to do so, X Alliance will be heavily penalized. Imagine automatic reps + 10% more of those to Clan Y.

- I have 10k land with $3 an acre spent on the GDI - I play 30 turns, I lose out 900k. How about $1 per acre? You lose out only 300k.

- GDI should NOT force you to not do a certain action. I cannot remember if this goes for certain servers or all of them, but I know that the GDI can make you stand down. This makes zero sense, as the GDI is a protective force, NOT an offensive military force (Global DEFENSE Initiative). So, why does the GDI make you stand down when you want to do certain things? If we take the second and third points I made, we could very well make those two points and this one valid. For example, IF there is a GDI warning telling you that the defender (who is in the GDI) is 32 ranks below you, then there would be a 15% overall increase of the defender's preparation. You know when you do a PS? It's plus 50%! So, imagine if you could have a similar defensive strategy, where you have 15% bonus for the defender. Now, if the defender has 51% less land, then the 15% defender's preparation would also exist.

hsifreta Game profile

Member
1797

Feb 7th 2014, 20:36:51

i happen to like gdi. i think it's useful. i think you're a bit confused, but GDI works differently for different servers.

feedback on your pointers:
1. i dont understand what rank has anything to do with anything. the difference in NW and ranks are not very correlated, i dont see any uses in using ranks as a measure.
2. why should leaders be able to disable GDI on anyone? that's rediculous, plus GDI is a way to make war more interesting, it's also a walling technique. naturally if a whole alliance joins GDI, they pretty much declares defeat.
3. what's the point of cheap GDI? the idea is for you to choose between the trade off, plus if you use your bonus points, GDI would be free, and one of the best ways to use bonus pts esp if you're netting.
4. GDI should not... don't even bother trying to make real world sense with this.. cuz while you're at it, you might as well ask why do troops use as much oil as a tank or turret? or if all ur civs are dead, who are those random ppl that come and salvage your country when you restart?

Edited By: hsifreta on Feb 7th 2014, 21:35:06
See Original Post

Marshal Game profile

Member
32,589

Feb 7th 2014, 20:46:16

what hsifreta said, going to gdi during war is wartactic and if it gets removed doubt warmongers would like it much.
Patience: Yep, I'm with ELK and Marshal.

ELKronos: Patty is more hairy.

Gallery: K at least I am to my expectations now.

LadyGrizz boobies is fine

NOW3P: Morwen is a much harsher mistress than boredom....

midevil.chaos Game profile

Member
202

Feb 7th 2014, 21:45:05

What? Your rank has EVERYTHING to do with your NW! What are you talking about? I understand that someone might be hoarding money, food or oil, but that's part of the game.

Are you kidding me? I remember warring with ICN against some other clan (can't remember which one). I was there like an idiot with loads of turns not being able to attack because someone was in the GDI. That's not war, that's boring! In a war, you SHOULD be able to screw those peace times conventions when IN a war. Or else, why bother waging war? Seriously.

Right, but setting aside the bonus for possibly obtaining GDI, here we are talking about joining the GDI while paying $3. So, in this case I think the payoff is too expensive for what it brings to the table. I'm on the express server for example, getting attacked and I can't do anything. Because of that damn GDI that THEY are in. I'm trying to run a specific strat, which apparently, doesn't work on the express server. So, in the long run, the 1A would screw a lot of people over as well.

Oh come on, give me a break dude! You don't name the GDI the GDI if they have an Offensive say. Might as well call it: The Global Military Initiative. As for the rest of your post, I do all the time, staying up all nite long trying to figure that fluff out *sigh* (not really, but you know).

Marshal, I disagree wholeheartedly with you.

Marshal Game profile

Member
32,589

Feb 7th 2014, 22:31:22

joining to gdi can save you from getting killed during walling, if they dec you and kill you then that's their loss (yes I know they can dec peace after you die but still).
Patience: Yep, I'm with ELK and Marshal.

ELKronos: Patty is more hairy.

Gallery: K at least I am to my expectations now.

LadyGrizz boobies is fine

NOW3P: Morwen is a much harsher mistress than boredom....

midevil.chaos Game profile

Member
202

Feb 8th 2014, 1:29:48

Yes, you are stating something which does annoy the crap out of me. It's like whimping out of a war as such, not cool.

hsifreta Game profile

Member
1797

Feb 8th 2014, 11:40:51

"GDI is useless, period. So what, it protects against certain attacks and land differential (correct me if I'm wrong)."
no not really. firstly, you really should research thoroughly before making suggestions, or you'll be wasting everyone's time. in 1A, GDI protects against any forms of attacks from people above 2x your size (NW) and below 1/2 your size (NW). nothing to do with land or special attacks. in Primary and Express, GDI protects only against special attacks and spy ops, and does not restrict the NW of your targets. So you can hit everyone in the server, so long as you keep to 1 landgrab and no more. It allows the aspect of the game where you can be attacked, but prevents people from attacking you excessively. Express and primary are primarily netgaining servers. Team, Alliance, FFA are considerable wargaining servers. You can actually play solo and war in Team without much change in environment or disadvantages, unless if you take on a team as your enemy. Tourney GDI works the same way it does in 1A, same with FFA. This game tries to serve both the interest of netgainers and wargainers. Seeing that we can't continue until you understand what GDI is, I've given you this explanation.

"What? Your rank has EVERYTHING to do with your NW! What are you talking about?"
firstly, i said the "the difference in NW and ranks are not very correlated, i dont see any uses in using ranks as a measure." yes, rank ranks you by NW. but the correlation (big word, look it up) is exponential, and the difference can be miniscuous depending on your NW and the time during the set, and the server. here's a simple example (that you don't deserve, because you didn't think through this clearly):

btw not restricting to 1A examples because 1A is at the beginning of the set, and doesn't show the contrast I'm trying to make.

This is what it looks like if you're up top, midset 1A, but the range would be narrower because there are more experienced players in 1A:

Primary server
by your rules these are the limits in that you can attack if you're ranked 31.
1 DPRK 75 46,113 acres $22,026,767 CG 478
31 Tryst 186 32,767 acres $12,984,888 DG 396
61 NATION OF PIMPS AND EGGS 32 19,175 acres $8,337,977 IG 435

By current rules, the range is bigger:
1 DPRK 75 46,113 acres $22,026,767 CG 478 0
43 Request For Production 69 13,557 acres $11,418,360 HG 842
82 encarta2 336 8,001 acres $5,714,640 C 714

The range is very restrictive as it is, by current rules, but at least you don't need to grow so much in order to retal if someone hits you. You just need to be at 1/2 their NW. Smart netgainers will jump after hitting, 1/2 is already really hard, if we play by your rules, you'll have no hope in retalling anyone that sells to get in range of farming a 4-5k acres, before jumping back up out of range again. with the narrower NW gap, you will need to gain so much more in order to retal, not to mention you lose production by being on less acres while supporting enough NW to break the defense of a country that's much bigger than yours.

Now, let's look at another circumstance:

FFA stats:
1572 Kari FFA 15 1856 460 acres $37,591 M 82 0 Ares
1573 Kari FFA 14 1857 460 acres $37,591 M 82 0 Ares
1574 Kari FFA 10 1861 460 acres $37,591 M 82 0 Ares
1575 Kari FFA 9 1862 460 acres $37,591 M 82 0 Ares
1576 Kari FFA 8 1863 460 acres $37,591 M 82 0 Ares
1577 Kari FFA 7 1864 460 acres $37,591 M 82 0 Ares

are you saying that if i'm rank 1577, i'm just lucky to be out of range cuz i somehow got the bottom number, even though there are 5 countries before me with the exact same NW? that isnt very fair.

finally, if we look at lower ranks or beginning stats, we'll also see some problems:

grabbing range by your GDI rules:
183 Lala Majora tickles monsz 418 487 acres $34,916 T
216 Hot Cool Yours 196 409 acres $30,925 M
246 Can you get your elbow off there 463 434 acres $27,109 F

grabbing range by current rules:
88 WARLORDe 282 773 acres $60,881 F
216 Hot Cool Yours 196 409 acres $30,925 M
297 ALPHA Bouvines 299 271 acres $15,872 M

again the range is shortened, however i would suggest that using your rules, there's no hope for those in GDI, they should just explore their whole set, because there are much fewer choices to attack for land, but given that if i'm say a Commi Indy, i can farm you all and pop out of range every day cuz with more land I outproduce you, and you are all restricted by the 30 ranks and will never catch up again.

also note:
216 Hot Cool Yours 196 409 acres $30,925 M 76 0
217 Cocoy and Maria Ozawa 592 441 acres $30,785 M 70 0
218 Gingers Eat Yellow Snow 40 409 acres $30,698 C

those below 216 are lucky again, because they can't be grabbed due to rank limitation, not cuz of NW, their NW difference isnt much, probably ran similar strats, indy startups to turn 40ish. But hey, it's just because of rank that they are safe from 183, and the small difference in NW isnt because they are bad at playing, just the random difference that occurs when you explore, build and have earthquakes. it makes even less sense to restrict by ranks when you're at a low NW, because everyone's bunched together. if we were using your ranks as a rule, the bigger will always get bigger, and the smaller ones will never outgrow being farmland. most people will quit and fewer than 20 people will play this game. =P

hsifreta Game profile

Member
1797

Feb 8th 2014, 11:52:36

"Because of that damn GDI that THEY are in."
wait, are you complaining that GDI is too expensive or not enough? and what were you trying to retal with? GDI is 2-folds, i mean if they only SS/PS you once, you can retal with SS/PS. There's no problem, it's just that when you want to play dirty and retal them with GS/BR/AB/CM/NM/EM/Spy ops, you can't. And you only ever do that because you can't SS/PS them back, either cuz they're not worth hitting or because your country can't break their defence.

"I was there like an idiot with loads of turns not being able to attack because someone was in the GDI."
not possible. if you dec war, you can hit them just fine. and if you kill it, you can dec peace right away. just whether you want to do that. If you have no cash to pay for it, that's just your problem.

"I'm trying to run a specific strat, which apparently, doesn't work on the express server."
yes not all strats work across all the servers.

"GDI while paying $3."
GDI is $3 on some servers, and $5 on others. Express, it's $5. no, it's a small price to pay for protection. Esp if everyone else is in GDI, then noone's gained an advantage. It's just something to wrap your head around, and know that it's like you're paying for a new pen whenever you run out, but so is everyone else. Don't think of it as "OMG, they charged me for that pen"

"staying up all nite long trying to figure that fluff out *sigh* (not really, but you know)."
you can try asking (nicely) or try a game that doesn't deprive you from sleep

"It's like whimping out of a war as such, not cool."
oh well, if the entire tag joins GDI, then you've already won. you should really have dec'd peace before going there. it's not whimping out of a war if you no longer have the will to fight. usually in life, you punch someone a few times, and they fall down and they don't get up, or hide behind women. You don't then chase them and pound them till they're dead (most occasions you dont) because it's obvious you've won the fight. You move on with your business, and people here should do that too. I mean, if you've won a war in terms of production and the enemy are all <1/5 of your NW and are only ever killing restarts, I would put turns to better use by farming, growing and FAing restarts out of range. With ghost acres, it's possible to get completely out of range.

Xinhuan Game profile

Member
3728

Feb 8th 2014, 13:00:55

Hey hsifreta, in Primary, you can attack/get attacked by countries that are 1/4x to 4x your size. Not 1/2 to 2x. GDI does not reduce or affect NW attack range on solo servers. Yes, this means on Express, a solo server, you can still attack 1/12x to 12x your size regardless of GDI.

hsifreta Game profile

Member
1797

Feb 8th 2014, 13:23:35

thanks, Xin. good to know.

midevil.chaos Game profile

Member
202

Feb 9th 2014, 2:07:24

@hsifreta: If the wiki is not fully up to date or is fully filled in with all key information by people with more knowledge about the rules, don't come and tell me I'm wasting your time. Not cool. Especially when Xinhuan had to correct you about a certain issue. Read the wiki, but it does miss a lot of things. Called EXPLANATIONS. Including pros, cons, more in depth explanations.

"Seeing that we can't continue until you understand what GDI is" Seriously dude? I know what GDI is. If you're gonna waste MY time by insulting me, don't bother posting. I stopped reading after 2 paragraphs. For someone who is trying to explain something, you are very patronizing. Not very cool man.

Also, you make it seem like I'm an idiot, which is not anything anyone would appreciate. If you wanna CORRECT something I say or ADD something to it, or even rectify anything or restate something you said (out of something someone would have misread), go ahead. But don't patronize me. Don't assume I have minimal game experience, nor that I know everything.

tellarion Game profile

Member
3906

Feb 9th 2014, 4:44:08

midevil.chaos, you really need to take a step back and re-read some of the posts people have made. hsifreta made a very detailed post correcting your flawed assumptions, and you seem to have ignored the helpful advice and decided to just argue with me. If you read more closely, he already answered all your statements with fairly helpful and detailed information.

Xinhuan Game profile

Member
3728

Feb 9th 2014, 4:59:07

To be honest, midevil.chaos, your suggestion(s) to change GDI is pretty lousy too.

You just made it such that a rank 1 can attack a rank 50 (with a bonus defense for the defender - 15% is negligible enough if you're rank 1 and he's 50), and the rank 50 cannot attack back at all, because he's not 30 ranks in range.

braden Game profile

Member
11,480

Feb 9th 2014, 5:08:43

now, may i reckon yet, or is it just simply you and me?

i tried, you refused and got offended by me. i tried to teach, you took it as being rude. i tried to be nice, you took it as offensive and refused to learn.

at what time do you offer apologies?

"Not cool. Especially when Xinhuan had to correct you about a certain issue. Read the wiki, but it does miss a lot of things. Called EXPLANATIONS. Including pros, cons, more in depth explanations."

by every one of your definitions, this is what i offered. you took it as me being rude, i offered you every single thing you asked for. you have zero idea how any of this works, ie, the game or the player interaction there within. learn. if you refuse to learn, be taught? if you refuse to be taught, then.. remember when i called obliviousness?

hsifreta Game profile

Member
1797

Feb 9th 2014, 6:47:49

midevil.chaos, if i came off patronizing, i duly apologise as it was not intentional. i did my best to explain with thorough and well-picked examples, if you decide not to read, then i won't be explaining further. with that ignorant attitude, you won't enjoy life much.

no, not everyone is out to get you, in fact, both braden and i have both explained things very thoroughly and have been patient with you. perhaps you're reading these with the wrong tone.

as for your issues with wiki, i agree with you. it's not thorough, frustrates me at times, but at the same time, you have to understand a few things:
1- it's a wiki
2- the game rules and formulae change almost every set, so unless if you're here every reset for the last few years, you're doomed to miss some changes, which is why #3
3- this community is more thoroughly based on these forums, as have been for a long time, which leads us to #4
4- it would be wise to treat everyone with respect and assume that they're doing the same, as they had been until you started getting defensive
5- most of what is said on this forum are "academic" if you will, no personal takedowns (mostly) and serious informed discussions, or humbly placed questions.

i hope you understand.

actually if you read my reply to Xin, you'll see that i'm quite open to correction, so i don't understand why you'd not be, when you know so little. everyone's a newb, i just returned to the game 3 months ago, and i had similar difficulties, and that's why i'm here to help. but i have to say, you're being a royal prick with that attitude right now, and i'm not going to be as willing to explain things to you as you're not making it worthwhile.

at least read what i've typed to help explain things to you and understand that i'm not out to get you, right?

hsifreta Game profile

Member
1797

Feb 9th 2014, 6:54:41

just to reply you also for your "suicider alert" post, most players in express are super active and they have eestats and irc news channels to show them the "suiciders", however they only do it for interest with no fear of being suicided themselves, because of how GDI works in Express.

i don't know when you were last seriously playing, but if you expect 3 taps without any responses, i believe you are much mistakened or maybe you only ever dwelled in alliance servers, or lower level tourney in the past. this game is more dynamic than it was in the old days. it took me some time to adapt too, when i came back, but now that i know the rules of the game, i can play it to my advantage. i'm sure you're able to do this too.

anyway, the GDI in Express guides people to play in a certain way and it will be wise to understand how it works before you troll/complain/ask/etc. because you've gained yourself a pretty bad reputation, and it'll be good for your game too. If you want to finish top 20, you'll need to play very well and in order to do that, you'll need to do 2 things:
1- respect the "5 day" server (otherwise you wouldn't be able to do 2)
2- learn the rules and how to apply them properly

it may have been a just for fun server in the past, but now it's become quite serious and competitive. and at the same time, it's a friendly environment. so don't get your panties in a bunch, just chill, and become a part of the community, otherwise it defeats the purpose of posting in this community if you're just out looking for an argument.

hsifreta Game profile

Member
1797

Feb 9th 2014, 7:01:36

now don't even bother replying unless if you've read and understood all that i've said. otherwise you'd regress from a 14 yo picking online fights for the heck of it, to an 8 yo saying "lalalala i cant hear you but i will argue anyway".

if you have questions, feel free to quote and reply, i do it out of habit to make things clear because i try to be thorough, do not mistaken this to be some sort of online battle, because it's not. let's just say, the sooner you understand how things are in this game, the sooner we can have some quality discussions about how to improve the game, rather than what you're doing right now, i dont even have a word for it.

masterfu Game profile

Member
81

Feb 9th 2014, 12:41:11

5

Rick Game profile

Member
199

Feb 9th 2014, 15:47:39

1