Indy production should still be:
IC x 1.86 x 1.35 (gov) x tech

Correct?

I'm getting fluffed up numbers on my production.

180 indies as a commie with no tech should be: 180x1.86x1.35x1= 452 turrets

I'm somehow only producing 273 turrets... How's that work??? That's less than a non commy.

Not only that, but my production is dropping if I explore a turn. How's that work when I have no tech? Wtf is going on here?

maybe you are not at your max pop? if u're not at max pop, your production is reduced.

Waaa?? what the hell did they change over the last two weeks of set? Max pop shouldn't effect Indy production.....

Apparently it was changed last month:

"In an effort to make crippling and failed KR's less pointless, we have made production of indies/farms/labs/rigs based on population.

Basically production of each (&TPT) is multiplied by:

min(1,max(0.2,pop/(maxpop*0.8))

This means once you drop below 16% of population, your production will hit a floor of 20%; production does not get affected until you are below 80% of max population. Given cashers are already linearly affected from 100% -> 0%, this is not applied vs Ent/Res."

Yeah, I noticed that yesterday when I built 20 cs and my indy production kept going up until I hit Max pop.

Hah, I never realized it took so many turns for your pop to go up if you hadn't been GS'd or something.

That makes sense, and evens the playing field out for people running cashers in 1A at war. Because it takes someonething like 150 turns to get from 5% pop back to 100% provided your not hit again.

I would like to see gogy RoR this set. The FS is now more powerful.

Its ok less supply means higher cost in theory.

It's bigger than expected though, like if I explore 3 turns my indy capacity drops by 25%. Imagine if I batch explored. Well, imagine if I make a monster attack for 10k land, then I'm getting the land even more suddenly and my pop is even less at capacity. So this seems like it might somewhat retard growth.

Shouldn't even when you grab its the same as exploring roughly 5 turns to reach "max" pop. Grabs just mean your population grows by 1000's instead of 100's. Cant see it hurting growth, people will still have land goals, but perhaps it will boost BPTs

Well, if you're only 200 acres big and you grow by 40 acres, that max pop increase is going to be significant, which means you'll be well under max pop, proportionally at least, meaning your production will drop significantly like I experienced. Maybe this is the only time you'll really see anything meaningful in terms of slowing growth. But if I'm 5k acres and make a big 1k grab, I'll again full pretty far below max pop proportionally (83% in both cases). Only now, instead of 40*12 expanded max population to fill, I'll have 1000*12 to fill, much more.

Now, you may know more than me about population growth formulas. I'm sure you do gain more population per turn if you've got more space below the max population available. So maybe it comes out to roughly the same in terms of how long it takes to reach close to max pop.

It does seem to slow your growth down either way though. It seems that making 5 grabs of 200 acres, in any case, is somewhat closer to making 1 grab of 1000 acres than it used to be. Maybe not to a significant degree... not sure... It's just interesting because this was a change clearly put in for the purpose of making non-kill BR/GS runs still have impact, but it's having very clear effects just on growing and building land here in the early going.

lol i found about this the hard way last express set. Started a war, ended up with lost pop. and 80% food production. I found a simple trick to simply elimiate this penalty, and go back up to near full production. So it's not so bad.

Unless you're a theo, much harder to get to max pop.

Well everyone is affected similarly. I don't think it is that big a deal.

So Xin, are you back to playing Expressnow that dr is fixed?

DR is fixed? How's that?

Guess it's not fixed now that I think of it.

Simple trick? Which would be what?

Now we have to change our tax rate every turn or something stupid like that?

I'm way to lazy for that! lol

Xinhuan, youre pretty good at this math stuff...anything to this jacking tax rate to drop max pop and keeping your production up? Or would the negatives out weigh the positives?

It's ok to do that as long as your pop is not below 2/3 of your maxpop since beyond that it slows down your pop growth.

Thanks for looking at it Xin. I'll probably not waste my time anyways. Usually I'm in a mad rush to LG from my cell at work or with the kids and don't have time to screw around with monitoring pop growth and tax levels. I'd probably just deal with the penalty to keep things simple. Interesting idea though.

Yeah, it's a lot of messing around. I think I like this (probably) unintentional change to non-casher start ups.

It adds a bit more thought to a start up... :)

HAPPPY BIRTHDAY TO MEEEEEEEEEEEE

Meanwhile I was doing a theo cash start-up in Express and I definitely felt this change. Doesn't really matter big picture but I had to change the way I used my turns as I couldn't afford to build my bpt.