This is my first set in primary, and while I attribute some of my problems to growing pains... I do have a question.

Is this set pretty indicative of previous sets?

From what I can tell, the C/I is extremely overpowered here (especially early in the set).

I tried playing a Dict Casher and have just been straight hammered. I've gone to a 100 bpt in hopes of getting my tech levels at optimal levels but I can't grow. The C/I's are just outgrowing everyone and are getting to the point where they can hit almost anyone without fear of a retal.

I realize that a Dict Casher is a notorious slow start to begin with, but I feel like I never even had a chance. Tech prices are even through the roof.

At one point I was keeping even with the amount of land gained in a day, but by doing that you lose your tech levels and thus your production.

I hope this doesn't come as a whiny post, I'm really just trying to get a feel for this server. From what I can tell, next set i'll be going C/I for sure.

Every reset, there will be at least 5 CIs in the top 10 regardless of how prices are. So yes, CIs are very strong on solo servers. They are only very weak on clan servers because of the lack of easy land to obtain, whereas on solo servers, you can easily get the land you need and grow very big with it.

This reset is particularly brutal on cashers due to high military prices (they generally aren't that high), and extremely high tech prices (they are usually under $2200 for 5 sets in a row, instead of $3200 for bus/res). This particular current reset is what everyone calls the "elusive techer reset" that only occurs like every 1 in 5 resets.

To put things in perspective, the last 4 or 5 resets were all won (i.e rank 1) by cashers. The last 5 resets only had 1 farmer in t10 mostly, and 1-2 techers. Last reset has 0 techers in t10. However, almost every reset has at least 5 CIs in top t10.

Check the previous set scores :)

Rep casher won last set (Nov/Dec)
Rep casher won Sept/Oct
Rep casher won July/August
Theo casher won May/June
Rep casher won March/April

you're not quite wrong about this set, because there are uniquely high tech prices bogging the cashers down. But that's not the usual.

Thanks for the insight Xinhuan. It was exactly what I was looking for. I had a feeling based on what I'd noticed and researched that I just got unlucky. Plus i've talked with a few guys who have mirrored your thoughts.

Oh well, i'll chalk it up to an experiment gone wrong and try again next set.

I won't be quitting my country, just come to terms it won't be in the top 10.

I think the slow start of the Dict AND the tech prices really just got me here.

I have no doubt if I would have just went Rep Casher I would have had an earlier start and could have got my production up high enough to stay out of the range of C/I's

In fact my ally and a few others have proven this.

Dictators and Republics start at the same speed. Early on, the limiting factor for growth isn't bpt, its economy. That's why its so easy to build 20+ CS a day as a dictator. And the Republic may have the +20% PCI, but they also don't have a grabbing gains bonus or military strength bonus.

Dictator is just as good as Republic and starts just as fast as a Republic.

Are you saying it's not easy to build 20+ CS a day as a Republic?

You're only making 3-4-5 attacks PS's a day as a Dictator, why would that be any different as a Republic?

Of course you have gains bonus and military strength bonus, but wouldn't the PCI bonus as a Republic almost equal out the gains bonus?

I'm not questioning you, merely asking questions. I've known for a long time your advice is solid.

Xinhuan:

Last 5 resets had

3,5,3,5,2 C/I in the top 10. So I think your always 5 C/I in top 10 might be overselling it.

Kingme: You got LG'd a bunch before the 12th b/c well I'm not sure what you were doing heh:P. Just no way to come back from that with any strat. I started a day late last set and then got LG and RoRed around the 20th and just couldn't ever catch up and I was playing C/I.

Rockman: I would think dict starts significantly slower. The build hurts dict early, explore and PCI help rep. The positive dict bonuses don't really help early and the negative rep bonus doesn't hurt early.

A dictator gets a big gains bonus, so they can do less attacks per day than a Republic, and they'll probably spend fewer turns spying, too. But in the end, you spend some turns growing as much as your economy can sustain, and then you build CS with the rest of your turns. So the dictator bpt penalty will not be slowing down your growth. Lack of bpt is not going to be a factor in your growth.

As a Republic, you do of course have more tax income, but you have to run a higher networth for the same military strength, and your attack gains will be much lower. You'll have to spend more on military, more on oil, and spend more turns attacking and spying if you want to keep up in growth.



The dictator bpt doesn't hurt. The limiting factor for all cashers' growth is their ability to keep their techs up and keep enough military to not get so fat that someone grabs them. Just building up your land is never a problem. The explore bonus for a Republic saves you a few turns growing to 4k acres, but once you start grabbing, the dictator's trio of bonuses are far far far better.

I think we're talking about different things with regards to "early". To me, early is after you start grabbing at 4k acres. Before that, its still the startup. But if you're talking about explore gains helping you early, it seems like you're talking about the first 4k acres. Before you start grabbing, you should be a monarchy casher, not a dictator casher. So the dictator bpt shouldn't even be slowing you down if by early you mean before you start grabbing.

What I was doing is try to keep up in land with you fat C/I's.

I couldn't login for one day and all this went down. I'd love to hear your opinions on what should have been done differently.

In order to keep up with production you had to sacrifice some defense to get jets. I was plucking the best targets from the very bottom of the barrel of my humanitarian range. Basically running the minimalistic amount of jets possible while still getting in 3-4 PS's a day. The rest of the turns were spent on bpt and tech. I have a 100 bpt... what are the other guys running?

There really isn't much I could do, there were about 5-6 Dicts that were all hovering around the same area of land for about a 5 day period. About half of us got hammered, the other half didn't.

As soon as one of them got hit once, it seemed like the floodgates opened and the other guys up top hit them too.

The funny thing is that of the countries that did hit me, none of them have a chance in hell of making a top 10 spot. They are all crappily run C/I's. It just shows to me the strength of the C/I in the early game. Kinda frustrating getting beat my players with less skill heh.

Like I said, it was a new experience and a lesson learned. I have no doubt if I ran a C/I i'd be sitting much prettier.

Yeah I was a Mono Casher until ~3600 acres.

well, it's just not as easy running a dict. Dict casher is alright, try dict farmer some day and you'll know the pain =P

That was your mistake. You do not try to keep up with the top commie indies in land. You catch up to them later (which me, and a lot of other cashers would be doing, if this set's military and tech prices were normal).

What you need to do is keep your bus/res techs up and do your best to avoid being a target that people attack. And there will be idiot commie indies some sets that decide to pick fights with you. I've had that happen a few times. But if you grow too quickly, your techs drop too much, and you're screwed. Or, you grow too quickly and you get grabbed, and you're screwed.

I've been cashing turns for a few days now (rather than building CS at the end of my turns), and I'm around 90 bpt.

[quote poster=Kingme; 22731; 419892
The funny thing is that of the countries that did hit me, none of them have a chance in hell of making a top 10 spot. They are all crappily run C/I's.
[/quote]

At least one of the C/I's that hit you is very well run:P

Well I personally know one of them, I don't count them as I'm still pissed my own clan mate hit me lol.

Rockman, I wasn't trying to keep up with the C/I's in land. That didn't come out right. I was trying to keep up with the Dictators (like yourself) in land, and just trying to out run the C/I's in their networth gain so I didn't look like such a juicy target.

I spent all my extra cash on tech and bpt.

yea that's who I was talking about:P

Ummm, I just read this thread and it spun me around. I strongly disagree with rockman. The reason that you are having so much trouble as a dict casher is because dict casher is hard to play. it is slower then its republic counterpart which in turn is far slower to start then a CI.

but it's also insincere to claim that CI easy street to victory if a republic casher has won the last 5 resets in a row.

It's all about the speed of the start up regardless of the strat. You slow play your start and fall out of the top range you will get hit. Sometimes you need to sacrifice economy growth your techs for military to keep net worth high enough to not be a target. If you stay top 40 all set you won't get hit until perhaps the last week or two of grabbing due to fear of a retal.

The dict helps you avoid hits for a bit but its inevitable if your fat and low net worth you'll eat landgrabs.

Also dict cashier it a tough one to play even in the most ideal of markets compared to the growth factor of the Reps pci increase.

i get the fluff kicked out of me in primary, i am thinking of not playing anymore. as an all explore, everyday you log in to X grabs from commies. It isn't fun, you can never retal- you can ruin your entire reset and buy entirely jets and retal, but then he hits you six times and you're screwed with no recourse

i don't have the interest in landgrabing, so i take it i don't have the interest in playing primary. one day i'll remember this and not create :P

unless somebody is willing to explain to me how to hold my acres? anybody?

don't say run a country capable to retal or suicide, unless, of course, you know what you're talking about..

" If you stay top 40 all set you won't get hit until perhaps the last week or two of grabbing due to fear of a retal."

i disagree, entirely, unless your point is forty people don't get farmed, and everybody else gets farmed by those forty people?

I think it's more that if you look like a country that can't keep its land, someone will take it. If you look like you can take land back off anyone in the game, people will leave you alone. Although sometimes people pick a poor target and get hella huge retal'd. Lol. Yes I'm expecting one. ;)

If you like all explore, alliance is your game. There you can hide behind a tag and all ex and never be touched. That is boring to a player like me. If you like grabbing, primary is tops.

in alliance i can landtrade for acres, even with somebody OUTSIDE of my alliance, heh, irony?- in primary i think it would get us deleted :(

express i can retal within hours, in primary it will take weeks, so i'm left with suiciding the people who legit landgrab me

i consider retalling three weeks later for 3200 acres that i can not hold because of everybody else being able to PS me suiciding, yes, but i can realistically only PS one or two myself, and even then one if i'm lucky?, or i can give up. i prefer the latter becausei enjoy people liking me as a person, albeit a horrible primary player as it stands :P

i'm man enough to know when i'm bested, so delete me for running a dedicated landfarm for anybody who has attacked me and i haven't retalled, you can delete them, too, mind you, for unfair play against anybody who hasn't hit me? (i do joke, yes)

ah braden, don't try to run all ex, just don't grab people. you've always got to retal to make it viable and to force people to leave you alone. don't go rep, try a tyranny anything... farmer or casher. carry 50/50 jets / turrets... you'll HAVE to retal sometimes, but many times it will serve as a deterrant. it's win / win... you retal you gain huge land, or, you don't need to retal.

IMO you are unnecessarily limiting yourself by playing all ex, as opposed to retals-only... a little force is always required, even if it's a political move rather than a particularly sensible one in terms of nw.

Since land trading requires you to have low defence , uou cannot effectively land trade in Primary since you will not be 'untouched' by other people if you're gonna run low defences.

you can't play a'la alliance in primary kingme

Ok, I'm glad this at least got some discussion going. I tend to agree with what some others have said, it's a brutal server to try to survive.

diez, i'm well aware this isn't alliance. I didn't go at it comparing it to alliance. If anything I tried to play it like express, which was probably a mistake.

I haven't given up completely. Just using this set to learn, and come back stronger next set.

Kingme, I don't think you were wrong to try to keep up with the top. It is just a difficult set with the tech levels. Indy's are able to grow despite tech levels but Farmers and Cashers don't have that ability.

When tech levels drop you may be able to get yourself back into it. There are only 10 or so countries that may choose you as the best target, so if you can survive the next few days of their attacks and last until techers start to stock, you can begin to grow again.

Thanks, i've kind of come up with a plan in my head. Thought hard about Rockman said, and I think I can use some of it to help.

I agree, I think once tech prices come down i'll make up some ground. I obviously can't take a top spot or anything, but I need to make a name for myself. I'm sure some of these guys are really going to love the retals I take. Make them think twice about hitting me next set.

Just so you know, some of the top countries enforce a 72hour-1week retal policy. If the retal is past that period they may treat it as a fresh landgrab and hit you back again.

Others might say a week or others might decide based on the situation. I don't really think 72 is the server-wide most common policy, it's more like the strictest policy anyone has.

If they are stupid enough to RoR and break GDI, I hope they enjoy being a parking lot.

It's whatever you can enforce. That's the beauty of primary.

I my outrun NGC for a few days, but he'll probably catch me later. :p. up to me to let his hit back go or throw away my set. Because that's what it is when you break your GDI. Lol

I apologized for hitting u kingme lol .. U were a fat target :(

I don't even know which one you are/were :P

Hahaha thats ok ;p

If I recall, Theannonymousone declared having a 1 second retal rule, I'd say that's the strictest policy.

It might not be if/when I retal :P