Lets put aside here the fact that the cheaters got banned from the game...

But why is it sad? The most fun times I had in earth2025 was when my own clan (MET) was having problems with the people then using (more like abusing) the RD tag to harass us during three sets. We used game admin help (yeah, omac functioned for that, go figure) and also fought them ingame, plus our legit enemies, and also pulled some hilarious stunts.

Right now the server was served with a reason for a lot of activity to both power blocks for multiple sets to come. One side can energize their membership by saying internally that they are going to outfight or outnet the cheaters from laf and the other side gets to prove that they can be top dogs without the cheating. Could be fun if used smartly. And no need to try to guilty trip tags into dropping laf.

Not everything is about politics. Some folks are looking at the bigger picture.

EE doesn't have a ton of players. A handful (far less than ever before) cheat and the moderators/administrators seem to be doing their best to prevent it. When an alliance has a few members caught cheating, do we throw out the bath with the bathwater? Can we afford to lose multiples of those numbers of cheaters in clean players? And who ultimately defines "cheating" aside from the administrators? You don't think folks may grow tired of PDM and declare landtraders to be cheaters? You haven't read people calling landtrading cheating before? Think big picture.

I think those who feel slighted should take their action out on the battlefield. Demolish them and say you're pissed. Let them work their diplomacy. Issuing ultimatums that are really attempts to rid them from the game is not helping anyone except the shortest of terms.

i think it's very clear that it is not about "cheating", the cheating incident might have been used for an "agenda". my bad if i got that wrong. (see dagga's post)

The people that cheated got booted. They're not prospering and Laf has a huge blemish. Nobody won here.

You have people saying all of Laf should suffer and you have people saying you can't blame the whole alliance.

If we're going to start using old information from and old game run by a worthless asshole then where is the anti-rd crusade? I got a couple licks on them and I let it go. Should I have held my grudge forever?

Orkin: Do you see anyone defending Laf in game?

Not mixing ethics and morals with rules comes with my job, but thanks for your opinion that I don`t know how to differentiate morals and ethics.

Anyway, the simple fact is that ethics is subjective. What might be an ethical issue for you might not be for the next person, and there is zero reason for your ethics to matter more than the next person ethics.

To me what is really silly are hundreds of posts from LAF/SOF/LCN`s enemies claiming that SOF, LCN, etc have the moral/ethical/whatever duty to drop LAF. That is what I called complaining/crying. I could use other words too.

Leave the enforcement of game rules to game admins. It is their job.

Go win your war on the field.

I will stop here because what else I could write would be a simple restatement of what I already said, and there is no point in repeating myself ad nauseam.

Are you acting stupid or are you looking through rose-colored glasses to miss my other posts? I'm hoping the latter because I don't represent LCN (nor have I claimed to), I have said I find those cheating in Laf to be despicable and that I think some are attempting to use this as an excuse to restructure the power basis. You can jump to illogical conclusions all day long, it doesn't mean you're right.

When did you allow Dagga and co to start writing your posts?

No, the argument you are trying to make is that YOUR ethics should matter to SOMEONE`S ELSE ethics.

It doesn`t. Cry as much of a river over it as you want, but that fact won`t change.

The only thing that the community has to follow is the game rules and there are people who enforce them, and they aren`t you.

Who currently in Laf has/is cheating Detmer?

Ethics has zero to do with it. SOF, LCN, etc`s anti-cheating obligation ends at their doorsteeps. Outside of that, it is game mods obligation to assure a cheat free game.

Congratulations, you're doing more for Laf's cause than any of their members could ever do. You have also done a fascinating job of reminding all of us how the anti-cheating terms amount to political posturing. Keep showing that beloved SOL honor!

how are we defending laf's cheating?

we are perfectly willing to stand aside and let them take their licks / get a huge beatdown. theres no need to beat them down over and over again. curb stomping an entire alliance for 1-2 peoples actions who arent even in the alliance anymore for 6 months is just unfair/hypocritical on so many levels.

no sir mazooka sir, i am not rewriting history nor justifying anything. my analysis on the current situation between LaF and others is that the "cheating incident" was used to win sympathy from other alliance with the objective to destroy LaF. my analysis shows that before the incident there was already an "anti-LaF campaign" going on around but with the issue of who will participate and who will not. when the incident occured, with the investigation still going on, and which is still fluorishing, they already have won the sympathy of some alliances. i guess the statement "Hanlong cheated therefore all LaF should be destroyed, and that all LaFers cheated and LaF allies where guilty "of something" by association" was the theme of the campaign. just my analysis though. you can correct me if i'm wrong.

from what i know they only have proof he accessed the DB this set.

everything else he did while damnable still sadly goes on and theres a lot of people doing it / attempting to do it. I half believe evo are just not hitting because if they hit the evo cheating scandals might come out and they would look pretty bad / hypocritical

yes i am. smack them around in an epic server gangbang and be done with it. hell throw pdm and TIE on there too

Detmer: everyone knows who Mr. Chartreuse was!

If HLW did:

- view other alliances site's posts on BOXCAR
- view other alliances site's posts on EVOHOSTING
- view other allainces site's posts on whatever they are on

Then I really can't see how it's different than what has been going on this game since organized groups began. Hacking, spies, steal logins, pretending to be another person, those are exterior gameplay that doesn't involve the game itself. Alliances can decide to take IN GAME ACTIONS against HLW for that, and may put the blame on LaF as well.

But that is just fine and dandy IMO.

If HLW gained access through a password given by TC, to Admin Forums and Private Message.

Then that is an Admin management issue, of not closing an access after a person has left the team. Sure, you can say HLW shouldn't have, but it's not much more different that the usual espionge that happens between alliances. (Previous cases of private messages being read on alliance hosting sites by spies who have moved up the chain into leadership, even PRESIDENT, has occured)

-----------------------------------------------------
I'm not defending HLW here, just saying, these accusations, should be separated from the accusations of game manipulation, and viewing other countries spyops with out using a turn.

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TC giving Admin access to HLW to BOXCAR is just a meh, unethical to other alliances, but in no way 'cheated' in the game. You can hate and flame the guy all you want, and never trust him again, but he didn't 'cheat' by sharing Admin access to BOXCAR.

TC giving Admin access to HLW to EE is dead wrong, unethical to the game.

============================================================

Again, the country viewing / editing is the only thing that I think the Admins should focus on, and bringing the other things along seems part of a smear campaign against LaF.

PDM does not regulate members freedom to express themselves, although right now Detmer is wishing he could regulate me I figure

;p

Everyone should realise that he planeed to hit SoL before the reset started. After he found the logs he hit, Evo, MD... who do you think was next.

SoL play the same Mon Farmer -> Mon Tehcer, so it was always their plan to hit early, win and farm.

Not that I think watcher is Hanglong but the irony is that hanglong himself was very clear in his statement vs muppets

"we will not pact alliances that are caught cheating"

Well there you go, you set yourselves up prefect didnt you ;)

We need to get used to a close to zero growth some time in the near future...

WIIIIIIN

more like kronecker was a whiny fluff like most of AT.

PDM and SoF will be ceasefiring April 23, 2012 at 18:00. Evo will remain policing for us until April 25, 2012 at 18:00.

apo why dont you come back and do something about it.

bring biz mak and hombre with you ya wanker

Besides, the government knew about this upcoming protest even before it was planned by the protesters. Only a few hundred people will show up, and some of them be rounded up and arrested for...protesting, thus sending a message to any other would-be protesters.

TITS ARE FAKE AND YOU LOVE THEM

Beautiful dog, Corgi?