*fists galleri to end the vagueness*

@dustfp

"I find it hard to see how scale or reasoning would have no bearing... "

Because when you judge things on scale alone, you diminunize the suffering of others and it's somehow less-bad. Genocide in ANY form is bad, whether it's 1000 or 6 million. Sure, the scale makes a difference, but don't assume because one massacre is large in scope and the other one relatively small that they are not categorized as the same type of atrocity.


@braden

Firebombing civilians (in Japan as well) is still state-sponsored terrorism and is illegal. Would it have been okay to kill all the interned Japanese and Germans on American soil so long as we won the war and liberated Europe? Of course not! That is my point. Just because you do something in war does not make it righteous simply because your cause is righteous.

And let's not forgot that the Germans started massacring the Jews well before America got involved. At first, America didn't even give a fluff. As a matter of fact, some American companies were selling to Germany even during the outset of genocide.

i got up to 8 before i got bored.

*fists trife*

So in principle, terrorism is only terrorism when Muslims do it? Because that's what it sounds like to me, mrford.

That's like saying that genocide is different when 6 million Jews are killed rather than a few hundred thousand Tutsis.

Genocide is genocide is genocide. Terrorism is terrorism is terrorism.

There is no excommunication in Islam because we do not use intermediaries to, well, "communicate" with God (prayers are made directly, not through a priest or some such). There is no Islamic institution, like the Papacy for instance.

I agree, these guys have done a lot of damage to the name of Islam in the past 10 years more than the entire history of Islam put together. It's disgusting.

But remember, all of these people you hear of are STILL a very small minority of Muslims who just try to live day-to-day lives. It is easy to lose sight of this given all the media exposure.

Imagine if threats against abortion clinics were broadcast on the news every day, making a big spectacle of it. I mean, these threats on abortion clinics by extremist Christians happens ALL the time. The only times that they do get exposure is when the action is actually carried out.

When it comes to Islam, just the threat of violence is reported. It's preposterous.

Well, I mean what they are doing IS offensive, but that doesn't mean it should be censored. They can do whatever they want. I don't really care either way, as long as it does not foment hatred for anyone, including my own religion.

But it is just satire, so who cares. These loonies who threaten violence are idiots.

No kidding.

Joan of Arc was burnt at the stake because she wore men's clothes.

She was wearing men's clothes the entire time, then got arrested. She continued wearing men's clothes out of fear of getting raped by the male prisoners there (men's clothes = less accessibility).

They made her sign a confession promising to move her to a different jail as long as she repented and started wearing clothes like a woman, and she agreed.

Then they reneged on the agreement and out of fear of rape, continued wearing men's clothes.

Outraged that she would go back to wearing men's clothes, she was condemned to burn at the stake.

Anyways, this is besides the point. Terrorism does not need a religion to be terrorism. There is plenty of state-sponsored terrorism that gets glossed over as I previously mentioned in the post above.

Just because it is during war does not make it okay to kill indiscriminately.

lol @ Earth Watcher

Created an account just to make that jab at me? That's pretty cowardly.

Look up Dresden. Look up what Americans did in Vietnam. You don't need a religion to be a terrorist.

There aren't even that many radical Muslims proportional to other denominations/religions.

If you consider firstly all the "extremists" who are violent, it's still a pathetically small proportion of Muslims (don't forget Indonesia is the most populous Muslim nation on the planet, and the second highest population is in India). Then, you take the portion that is not politically motivated to further their own personal, greedy needs and that number becomes even lower.

Al Qaeda? Political, but they use religion as a justification to recruit and further their agenda.

Iraqis? Political, they are fighting for power.

Hamas? Political, they are fighting for territory and power.

Hezbollah? Political, they are defending their territory.

Abu Sayaf? Political, they are fighting for independence.

Chechnians? Political, they are fighting for independence.

So what's left, trolls? All of these guys have political motives and use Islam as a facade to lure in new recruits and to bolster their goals.

This is not defending terrorism or violence. I am personally anti-violence. But it just goes to show how little all of your understanding really is on what motivates these groups. They all publicly claim that it is over religion, but that's bullfluff. What they really want is almost always political, and they'll stfu once they've gained it (and none of them have got what they wanted so far, so they still whine and blow themselves up).

I am Muslim.

I find it offensive.

But censor it? Nope. Groups like these radicals are stupid.

Sure it's offensive, but we live in a day and age when we *SHOULD* accept such behavior. Unfortunately, groups like these are still stuck in the stone age.

Rather than corruption, you should increase the returns on Bomb Banks spy op. That way it will be more risky to keep such a large amount of cash on hand, and that spy op will finally become useful for something.

HEY FORD. WHY DON'T U STFU AND GTFO AND BBQ AND OMGWTFLOL???

n00b.

mrn00b.

MSN:

i don't think he has ICQ, or if he does, i've never seen it before.

Nah it's okay. We're in a state of flux right now. ES is down for "extended redesign" and we're using Boxcar now, so we're not even sure which site to list, although probably Boxcar is the way to go from now on, even with the redesign, whatever that means.

I was just pointing out that the tag thread reading as an LaF recruitment advertisement stickied to the top should probably be left more...neutral.

please change the title of this thread. needless to say, i was a bit confused about why it was stickied, and also since your website is listed in the first post, it could be taken the wrong way.

cheers.

Dear Dibs, Forgotten,

Shut the fluff up.

All you two ever do is come on AT and whine about about something. You two ALWAYS complain about something. Grow the fluff up.

PDM only would do this because we're outnumbered 2:1? What about all the times we warred SoF, despite being outnumbered, despite not asking for help (in all except one war, where no one had the balls to help us)?

You are the type of fluff-forsaken troll who will say the same formulaic bullfluff about any alliance. "Oh, well "X" is only doing this because they outnumber them 2:1".

And Dibs, why you hatin? When did we ever do anything to you? Why you gotta open your mouth when all it ever comes to is whining? All you do is troll; nothing you say is ever worth considering seriously.

I'm sick of coming on to AT and hearing your fluff (this goes to both of you). Either say something constructive or shut the hell up.

I didn't hear all this whining about PDM when we came to the aid of the smaller alliances a few sets ago, and suddenly your tone changes?

Sure, whine that PDM FS'ed SoF too early during the arranged war. Sure, whine that PDM can't net. But what the hell is it to you when it comes to PDM working things out with Rage? Shut the hell up.

If you got beef with us, then get your alliances to war us and we'll settle it on the battlefield. Otherwise, keep your damn trolling to yourself and stay out of our biz.

Stop flaming, plz. :)

*pets guy*

Dragonlance, check mail inbox.

Paradigm guys, go easy. This is starting to sound dangerously close to flaming.

I never made a claim that there was a DNH before this post. I said before that I was considering it.

Hey guys. I thought this needed its own thread since it is easy to miss posts in the other one.

Pending internal discussions on what to do about landgrabbing, Rage is being put on DNH.

The only exceptions are:

1) Any retals owed, which should be few if any.

2) Kingdom of Roldrem (#99), who is on farm for retalling with missiles/ABs.

If any other Rage countries are attacked beyond those two exceptions, please let me or Drow know and we will provide reparations favorable to Rage.

If I am mocking them, it is unintentional, and apologies to them if they take it that way.

You mean the kill chat we set up on the guy who was farming us along with 2 other clans that ended up killing him first?

No, not like that. Rage has had some very good retals, so saying they can't retal is naive. Even being disorganized due to ES going down, they are still doing a good job. I am actually surprised they haven't taken more retals.

As a matter of fact, I made this post to kind of urge them to take retals, not complicate things by ABing to hell and back. If you retal properly, they'll stop attacking.

Rage leaders, please send me a message via these forums and we'll talk about it, unless you can catch me on msn or icq. My time on the messenger apps will be limited until I get back home, which should be on Wednesday.

Otherwise, the best way to get ahold of me is via insite in the forums or insite in Boxcar ( Paradigm\The Arabian Nightmare {VP} )

No. I was expecting retals. I was also expecting the guy who ABed a bunch of people would choose people who actually attacked him.

So now RAGE is retalling with ABs and missiles?

Are you serious?

contact us? why?

contact drow, not me. i checked the news and don't see anything. i got no clue what he's on about. :P

Who started the lg-fest? Damnit, I will have to examine the news more closely when I get back.

I think the idea is interesting, but I would just cut the explore rates in half. Maybe try this on the "team" server and see how it works out. Could be a lot of fun!

the only reason I *haven't* put them on DNH already is because if I did, thatguy would have no one to attack. ;)

see how thoughtful i am?

I was horrified to see in the attacking news how much you guys have been hit by PDM (I am currently on a business trip--well I was, now I'm just stuck here). I was considering putting you on DNH as a courtesy, but I see you've been doing some decent retalling. But I do not think you are retalling all the hits you could. If you want my clan of degenerates to stop hitting you, please hit them back hard (legitimately, of course).

Escalating retals would be accepted in this case (1:1,2:3,3:6,4:10).

If you would like to discuss a cessation or percolation of attacks, shoot me a forum message and we'll talk. If you want to have some fun and see if you can catch up in retals, carry on. :)

Either way, you have my apologies.

I AM ANT!

So far in France, it's been smooth sailing, aside from Iceland's volcano that I didn't even know existed yet is affecting me nevertheless.

It's goddamn expensive here in Cannes!

I am stuck in France at the moment and haven't been online much. Try getting ahold of Drow. His contacts should be around here somewhere.

Blame Iceland.

off to the airport. ciao.

"How can you ignore 4 decades of previous history between two countries that are currently at war and say they're not relevant?"

Because the ROOT cause of the conflict has nothing to do with that history. It has to do with fabricated/false/faulty evidence against Iraq.

Don't forget that one of the original, main reasons for invading Iraq was because they allegedly had "ties" to Al Qaeda, which anyone with a brain knows is BS. Only idiot conservatives convince themselves that the reasons for invading Iraq weren't contrived lies.

40 years of history is meaningless because it is NOT relevant to the issue at hand. Explain to me how supporting Saddam against Iran is applicable to America's casus belli against Iraq? I would be VERY interested if you could elaborate on that, because if you can't, your entire point is moot. Good luck!


"That's like saying that the US colonists were wrong for separating themselves from the British because the Brits hadn't done anything wrong to them THAT day...."

No, because US colonists were continually under oppression day-to-day from the British. Are you trying to say that Iraq was oppressing America day-to-day for the past 40 years? LOL

What you are actually saying is thus:

Long ago, Melos was a colony of Athens, or used to be. Sparta went to war with Athens. Sparta went to attack Melos, and Melos basically said "We may have been an Athenian colony, but now we don't want to take sides, we just want to be neutral." And IRRESPECTIVE of that history, Sparta said, "fluff that, your very presence undermines our authority. The strong do what they want and the weak do what they must."

You see the relation now? Melos' history with Athens meant fluff-all. It was their very neutrality that was the problem. That was the ONLY issue.

Capice? Or do I still need to spell it out to you how past Iraqi-US relations have no bearing on the American casus belli for war (aside from maybe 10 years back into the past with George Bush Sr.--but that's only if you believe in the "revenge" theory).


"I mean, are you honestly that ignorant, or just trying way too hard to prove a point? War is never caused by just 1 party....ever."

Tell me how Iraq declared war against America or otherwise affected America AT ALL. And don't bring up the "past", because US-Iraqi relations were just rosy up until Desert Storm when Iraq tried to go for Kuwait. Or are you saying that Kuwait is suddenly the reason we went to war in 2003?

If you are going to try to prove that I am wrong, then prove it! Don't just use retardedly irrelevant metaphors and call me ignorant.

LOL

I currently live in Qatar. I can totally see a Qatari trying to light up in the bathroom and then joke as if he owns the world. That's because the Qataris here are spoon-fed affluence and actually believe they own the world.

My flight leaves soon, gotta go to the airport in half an hour. Thanks for the demoralizing news!

Because I'm a Buyer, not a Seller. n00b.

We're talking about Iraq *now*, not several decades of history. If you want to go back several decades of history, Saddam was our right-hand man. Either way, it's irrelevant.

Of course I'll say it's X's fault, because X in this case happens to have initiated the war on its own. You think Y is a guilty party by somehow inviting an occupation upon themselves?

Y has no blame in this issue, it is completely the fault of X. In most cases, there is no black and white, but in this case it is pretty clear who was the aggressor and who wasn't.

I won't need to, it's France. :P

nazi mods! i love to hate nazi mods!

DOWN WITH MICKSTER!

Please either message me here or on Boxcar. Or you can leave me offline messages and I will get back to you.

If it is urgent, please contact Drow, or in extreme cases Bodyman.

I will be on a business trip between April 8 - 17 so my availability will be reduced, particularly on MSN and ICQ.

Cheers.

In the very way you guys speak, you dehumanize them.

Why do you think I put "collateral damage" in quotes? Because it's a simple euphemism to describe "side-murder", to make it more palatable and easier to accept.

You can't "damage" a human. We are talking about human beings. No matter how many times you say it was "tragic" (tragic--as in an old Greek Comedy/Tragedy?), it won't bring those people back to life. Your platitudes and insincere declarations of sorrow are useless and if anything just go to show how little you actually care.

Does fluff like that happen in war? Sure, it does. But who went to war against whom? It was AMERICA that started the war, not Iraq. It was America that occupied them, not Iraq. It was America that sent people to Guantanamo Bay, not Iraq. It was America that routinely kills people and calls it "tragic".

Yes, these things happen in war, but war itself is repugnant. Deluding yourself by saying the soldiers are just doing their job is to absolve them of guilt and poor judgment.

The fact of the matter is, they should be *certain* that the people they are attacking are "combatants" (<---America doesn't recognize this in Iraq or Afghanistan, by the way, which made the helicopter pilot's decision rather easy since there is no defined enemy). How can you be certain when you're in a helicopter and you only *think* they are passing weapons and are guilty (guilty of defending their homeland against an occupying power)?

But then you will retort: "But TAN, how could we ever be certain of anything in war? If that was the case, then we would never kill anybody." And my answer to that is, don't start the f***ing wars in the first place!

War is for stupid children stuck in adult bodies who get a kick out of exercising absolute power over the lives of other human beings. Simply being in the military is sadistic.

You aren't doing America a favor, you are doing yourself a favor by murdering a stranger that had a family, friends. Kids.

Disgusting filth the justifications are.

As a side note, just so the douches who cough in bathroom stalls don't get their panties in a bunch I mean this for ALL militaries worldwide, not just the American one. War is silly and I get sick of hearing excuses from people about how "this happens" in war.

@ archaic

"To the best of my knowledge the US military never strapped explosive vests on a couple of young retarded girls, sent them into a crowded market, and blew up 70+ civillians. "

Instead, they strap bombs to airplanes and drop them on people where there is 0% chance there won't be "collateral damage" unless you drop it in the middle of an empty, lifeless desert. The "smart" bombs we use in Iraq make up some ridiculously low number like 20% of the ordnance. Most of the bombs we drop are "dumb".

---------
@mrford

"do you honestly think that the 2 helicopter pilots intended to kill 2 journalists and hurt 2 kids? you really think they went to work that day saying "hey joe, lets go out there and murder some civilians?""

Remember the 14 year old Iraqi girl who was raped then her carcass burned and her entire family shot? Do you think they accidentally came across her, gang raped her, shot her and her family then burn the house down?

Some people are just naturally assholes. If these guys covered up what they did instead of coming clean and being honest about it, then why the f*** are you defending them? That sort of trash needs to get prosecuted in a criminal court.

As the title says. If there is a simple way to do it in Chrome, would be nice. Otherwise, I have to use the IE-tab extension, which is a hassle.

Heh. TAN is not tobacco, but is just as addictive!

Lately, there has been a lot of talk about legalizing TAN, which so far has been banned from most things. I feel that if we were to legalize TAN, the world would instantly be at peace and the pron industry would increase by eleventy hundred percent.

Discuss.

frackin weird forums, but i like.