If LCN/ICN,iMag fought a full potential SOL, with their full potentialness, I think SOL would win :-D, but yeah, thats another senario<sp that doesn't matter.

SOL's walling ability as of late is not so good with the restarts..

I agree with both statements made by Dagga and iScode.

I think SOL pulled through and did an amazing job. There were certain aspects that SOL had to work on to perform at its peak, but we did extremely well this set never the less. A good portion of solers able to get to war room, extreme walling, strong unexpected rushes, well rounded war countries etc.

I also agree that LCN and Imag did not do a great job this war. A lot of single country's hitting out of war chat for example. Breakers that could be used were not breaking. As well as really slow kills.

In the end iScode, SOL did win this war. Both sides participated in it, just with varying degree's of skill in different area's.

SOL won this war themselves as much as Imag and LCN lost the war themselves. No if and or buts. That is how it is. Plain and simple.

That's why there was an "also" in that post. But yeah SOL had far better wallers. Our best waller soviet died due to a newsbot relay error while he was online. He was getting killed and the news didn't update. Died in his sleep so to speak. :P

SOL was prepped for war. LCN/ICN were unprepared. iMag nearly prepared and was getting ready to FS someone but had to fast-track ahead of time that plan, to defend ICN/LCN. Even though a fluffload of LCN/ICN breakers were killed in the FS and ICN demoralized, there was a point in the war when SOL had less than half a dozen high NW countries left and we were slowly gaining an advantage. It all went downhill after they killed my epic country =P

Jiman, I don't think anyone is questioning that SoL won the war... the point that absolutely everyone but SoL keeps making is that it's not the same caliber of war as the ECM/SoF war
That looked to be the purpose of this thread -- to discuss the similarities of those two groups

Be proud of your war effort if you want, be proud of your victory as well, if you want. But I don't think anyone is going to buy the argument that SoL's war vs ILI is tantamount to SoF's war vs ECM. And that looks to be the point SoL wants to drive home with this thread.

Thats not my point :P

I did not see how well Sanct/Evo/Monsters did because I was not paying attention to the war. I also did not see how well SOF did either.

I can safely say though that Imag/LCN/ICN did not do well. I can also safely say SOL did do pretty well. If Sanct/Evo/Monsters and SOF did do well though, then I agree with you Pang, the two wars are not on the same caliber (more so if Sanct/Evo/Monsters were war prepared and ICN/LCN were not).

SOL won because LCN is still playing the game as it was played 10 years ago.

Stonewall from a smartphone? An LCN smart phone is one with a built in answering machine and a redial button.

IRC bots for stonewall alerts/SMS messages? If we're out of wood for the signal fires or the carrier pidgin needs a break, we're "SOL".

Code our own site or tools? I had to use frontpage to make alert pages on gamerstown and that was a tall order.

LCN was a top alliance because the people in LCN were/are generally just plain "good" at this game. We had/have a lot of skilled players like you would find in LaF and Omega, but with an "I don't really give a fluff" attitude like you find in Imag. If you put 30 SOLers and 30 LCNers into two separate rooms full of computers and have them go at it in a war, I'm confident in LCN's chances, but when technology comes into play and when a turn-based game becomes a real time battle of who can be online more, it's not even going to be a fight, especially when it is on their terms. I hate the fact that I called the exact result of the war the day after it started, but it wasn't hard to see coming.

Theseus, I am sorry but your just plain wrong.

I wall without even having a cell phone.
I dont listen to any alerts what so ever and I still check ingame news over looking at our website news and chat information.

I have skill because of me, not because of technology. The same can be said for other Solers as well.

Yes mobile messaging system is convenient, playing on a mobile phone is convenient... but it allows people to go to work and travel and still play. OOOOO, big deal. A method for people to play the game without being forced home to do well. Seems like a positive improvement to me.

Your statement that your just made is a poor attempt trying to shift blame from your members poor performance towards something else, in this case technology is your scape goat.

Please. Take it like a man. Don't whine on AT because you didn't do well. Don't try to make excuses for your breakers failing. Don't try to make excuses for your players hitting out of your main chats. Don't try to make excuses for your like of readiness.
Hell, what the hell would any country carry 0 turrets at any time during the set?
During our FS we broke a majority of LCN countrys with 1k jets. Thats pathetic.

Grow a pair and learn to play the game.


/endrantandnerdrage

Monsters would never fight LCN... they are our bro's and siters... I would like to kill Assassin or Ravi though... ;-)

i thknk ecm would win the hypothetical war. but it would be pretty fun

Anti-SOL poster child Pang turns up to put words in mouths again.

To be honest, Pang has not said anything on this thread above and beyond common sense. If SOL is feeling insecure about matching up to SoF (can't imagine why, since our alliances are friends, and definitely can't imagine why a SOL member would try to troll their ally), then they should try to match the circumstances of the war, instead of a hollow country count.

You said earlier that an FS is not equal to a 40 country advantage, but war strats vs. netgaining strats, preparedness, and the will to fight is worth a hundred countries. Yes, SOL has fought a very good fight, but it isn't against an opponent close to the strength of ECM from last reset. Imag, ICN, and LCN fully war prepped and motivated - expecting a war, not netting set would be a very different opponent than the one you fought, and probably would've given you a better war, and a more prestigious victory, but not the easy victory your leadership seems to be seeking.

Netgainers who are set up to netgain, tend not to be motivated to fight a war - so while an alliance at peace may have 40 countries, they may have half of that in a fight. If nothing else, your wars with LaF should have taught you this, but I think your leadership knows this, and planned this war for that reason - an opportunity for SOL to play the underdog while not putting themselves at significant risk of defeat.

The main difference between this game today and when I stopped playing circa 2003 is the specializing of alliances - in 2003, the majority of alliances would look to fight or netgain depending on mood, and the best alliances excelled at both (which is why SOL was going from a top power to coalition filler when I left). There were a few alliances who specialized, but they were for the most marginalized.

Today, pretty much every alliance specializes in war or netting. Alliances that try to do both can't compete and are marginalized. The game, or more importantly, the way the game is played rewards netgainers who play strategies ill suited to fighting, and vice versa for fighting strats. An alliance or group of alliances with countries set up for netgaining is not going to out fight a warring alliance with strats tailored to a specific fs date and time, no matter how much they out number them. If SOL's leadership had more balls, they could've added WoF, PDM, and RD to their war, and still won.

Yes SOL fought a much bigger opponent, did a great job of walling, and kicked ass, but to call it a great victory is an overstatement. More likely it is an affirmation of the unbalance of the game, and a sign that maybe the game should change to not reward specialization to the level it does now. Making kills much more difficult would be a start, but the admins do not seem open to that large of a change of the game's dynamics, and they probably have a good handle on the pulse of their players. Also, making wargaining a viable strat would help too - greatly inflating the networth gained in a war - for example, having the killing country inherit the stock, military, tech, land, and buildings of their vanquished opponent.

*waits for Facebook earth to come out*

ponderer you make quite a lot of sense, but please enlighten me to where SOL people trolling SOF? This thread was more a fun acid test to show off the huge anti-SOL bias that exists on AT.

it should go without saying that the feeling's mutual, jofel

Jiman you're misunderstanding the context of my post and kind of being a fluff, maybe in part because of the misunderstanding.



Nobody implied that SOL does not have skilled players. SOL has been a top alliance since long before any of the technology I mentioned was used.



Is it irrelevant, or an "improvement"? It can't be both.



SOL is and will continue to achieve far greater success in Earth's current state than will LCN and technology is very much a part of that. It's not a shift in blame (being behind the times is our own fault) or an excuse, it's a fact.



Where is the whining? Nobody from LCN is posting anything to do with the war except me posting about how SOL kicked our asses and if this war happened a thousand times, you'd kick our asses every time. SOL > LCN. Not whining - fact.



Where are the excuses? Where did anyone from LCN claim anyone outside of LCN is responsible for LCN losing here? Even if technology was the sole factor which it absolutely is not, LCN's lack of technology is LCN's responsibility. Also, were we prepared or not? If we weren't prepared (again, our responsibility), you should have steamrolled us and your victory isn't a big accomplishment. If we were, then you're lying about it here. You're trying to play everything both ways.



Are testicular fortitude and game skill related somehow or did this just get meshed together in your rant?

just war sof and get it over with. The speculation and beating around the bush is dumb

I did read your post as a sense to compare SOL's skill based on its tech it has for mobile and such. This is easily viewed on the fact of comparing 30 solers to 30 lcners on a room full of PCs right after saying your tech comments. Its kinda does seem its an implied statement to me.



Sorry the 'big deal' was in a sarcastic tone. Aka the "Oooo"



Hey hey dont give up. LCN is the 11th best alliance title holder for the last decade. A strong consistent alliance which knows where they stand! SOL/LAF/SOF they all dont know what place they want to be in. :P



"If you put 30 SOLers and 30 LCNers into two separate rooms full of computers and have them go at it in a war, I'm confident in LCN's chances,"
This is the main sentence where the miscommunication comes from. You imply a lot with this one phrase. Maybe not on purpose, but it occurred either way.



Again, the single phrase supported the idea that you were making a statement that LCN could beat SOL if it was not for technology.
No of course you did not say it directly (the orginal statement, not the implied view, contradicts with some of your statements that you are saying now) but you did imply it.


I am not sure where I said LCN was prepared and was not prepared in the same statement, maybe you can quote that for me.
I firmly believe LCN was not prepared for the war. If i said otherwise, it was a typo (or change of opinion over a period of time).



That was more of an emotional statement at the end, so they just got meshed together.

I think a organized WAR with SOF would be fun! Do I know who would win? No clue.

Will it be fun no matter who wins? Hell ya.

The eskimos will win, they always do!

I stand by all aspects of my statement that 30 LCNers could beat 30 SOLers in that environment. It's a rare point where I stand up for LCN here, but I am not putting SOL down in any way by doing that. LCN's strong point was that in its most basic form, LCN was pound for pound as good at or better at the game than most people. It was our strong point. SOL's strong points were usually consistency, activity. and persistence. Having those as your strong points or LCNers having skilled players (even if it is implied that LCN skill may be greater in that context) does not imply that SOLers entirely lack skill. An above average skill level coupled with our other assets is what makes SOL so lethal.

Oh god. The pound for pound argument again.

How about "Kilo for Kilo"!?

Go metric system!!!

"Pound for pound" seems to be overused a lot. In a lot of cases when its being applied its removing one aspect of play... or inserting another... with all these what ifs and this and thats, including buts... etc etc etc. Its one word being used far too often to munipulate other peoples prospectives.

Your theories are fun and all, but the 'pound for pound' statement is a moot point.
I am happy that you are a proud LCN member and that you take the time to defend LCN. At the same time you talk this way I hope that you plan to apply realistic view points to improve your alliance.
In the end, these theories are just a mere distortion and delusion of reality (for the time being at least).

Wow, Jiman, for a minute there, you started to sound like Pang whenever he was in LaF...

That's because before I was in LaF, I was in SoL, Nukevil.

I taught them how to spin back in 2002 and created a monster :(

Pang you're one of the primary reasons on here for the anti-SOL stuff, and you seem to be proud of it?

And onto another topic, both SOF and RD are looking to war this set - SOL + RD vs SOF would be a good way to finish this set out.

Now we just need ILI to ceasefire! :D

I don't even know what you're talking about -- my posts are generally on the issue at hand.
No one outside of SoL has agreed that SoL fighting ILI is on par with SoF fighting ECM, and that was the point of this post, was it not?
Agreeing with those folks doesn't make me anti-SoL, it just makes me realistic or at least a guy with some thoughts on the issue. I was in the ECM vs SoF war and I used to be one of the people to size up these sort of wars in SoL and IX. That seems pretty relevant to this current discussion :p

For future reference, just because I don't happen to agree with a person or group on every issue doesn't mean I'm "anti-that-group".
If you don't want me to start joining in on public discussions about issues which involve SoL, don't start AT threads on them.
Now get back to your actual issue and stop trying to shift the discussion :p

ya, that'd be a good war to finish off the set if everyone is interested

There's been a lot of tension between RD and SoF for years. It may be therapeutic for everyone to get into a 2011 style symmetrical war, rather than a 2004 asymmetrical one :)

/me wonders when the next big serverwide war is gonna start...

NA+SOL+RD vs SOF+ILI+LAF

Then out of no where, PDM FSes Laf for some reason.

So, ILI is now a permanent alliance? :P

Assassin... feel the love, eh...? ;-)

And Evolution stands on the sidelines, hoping their trees will be fertilized by the dead countries...

why would we war against some of our friends ;)

yeah ^^ what he said.

i once read that RD and LAF are in bed together not to long ago, a fact they they deny. That statement proves it.

If i read it on AT then it must be true -

discuss.

1 week post