like those alliances i told detmer PDM was on DNH and i offered them a pact for the reset. detmer messaged me with his concern about us always doing this to them, for which i apologized to and i told him i wasn't around during those times so i can't say anything about the past. he didn't like the cycle in which he said LaF always farmed PDM and then asked for a DNH to netgain scott free. my response to him was a multi reset pact so things like this won't happen again.
True
detmer again turned me down.
I said that was fine if we got our land back, or destroyed it, so things would be equitable.
You would never address any sort of repayment.
unlike other alliances though, the DNH between LaF/PDM was one way. there were hits exchanged from PDM->LaF that weren't retals such as nukes (which for the sake of argument in regards to PDM because of their policy they could be considered retals), harmful spy ops (likewise), but also fresh topfeeds from PDM to our all-explores who never even touched PDM this reset. i didn't care as much for the nukes/ops retal on countries who abused PDM in the first place (because they were the agressors) but the grabbing (and harmful spy ops) of countries who never even touched PDM was what started to make things deteriorate.
the first day that this happened, i told him "what are you doing with that topfeed? let's sign a pact and get this over with"
detmer again didn't agree to this.
Again, you never addressed my desire of repayment and just wanted to pact. I am sorry that you were not around recently to help abuse us, but LaF still had a history of that stunt and we were not letting LaF get off again.
the second time it happened, i told him "doesn't seem like you want the pact at all"
to which he responded "consider yourselves will retal".
hanlong did message me three times or something when we grabbed them... Here is more how it went down since his quoting me are not true quotes. Telling LaF we no longer had them on DNH was a separate message for fairness since I was done containing my guys against LaF who was hitting us through their "DNH"
Here are true logs
From: Detmer
To: hanlong
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Are we friends?
Date: Feb 19th, 05:13
Message Body:
You are right - two of them (#449) are retals. You are of course welcome to retal and as noted before #449 has been violating pacts all round. If he grabs you again you're welcome to farm and kill him. As for the other hits though...
From: hanlong
To: Detmer
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Are we friends?
Date: Feb 17th, 22:24
Message Body:
i set you to DNH right now, but you want to sign a pact so we can make this official?
Feb 18/11 2:27:16 AM SS old golden age (#598) (LaF) If U Cant Beat Em Tank Em (#241) (Paradigm) 320 A (+355 A)
Feb 18/11 2:20:48 AM PS ashes to ashes (#443) (LaF) T34 FTW (#359) (Paradigm) 453 A (+480 A)
----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
huh? i set you on DNH on the 18th game time according to the boxcar records.
Feb 18/11 10:15:18 AM PS The untouchables (#610) (LaF) Dont tanks me (#449) (Paradigm) 1215 A (+452 A)
is the only hit i see after that time, and that's a retal.
can you explain to me what hits you are talking about? i hope we are still able to retal ;)
----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
I appreciate that you are being reasonable however your members have hit us four times since we were set to DNH. Unless your next message assures me that everything will be repaid to us then we're just going to take it as you guys as a whole don't actually give a fluff about us and we'll just go back to the status quo of a year and a half ago... I don't mean to give you an ultimatum but honestly we're getting raped and I have no choice but to put my foot down for my members.
----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
i set you to DNH right now, but you want to sign a pact so we can make this official?
----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
Yeah, this whole stunt has caused MUCH bad blood between us in the past.
http://www.eestats.com/...;badside[]=LaF&page=1
First one is a guy who has been grabbing regardless of ally status and we have been dealing with. Second one I contacted you about since the guy made a mistake. After that it is a flood of grabs from you guys.
What is our status in your embassy?
I am on IRC now but I'll be in and out of my office as I have a ton of work to get done. #pdm irc.earthtools.ca
----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
I didn't know the "theos farming us and then jump" was a recurring problem between LaF/PDM, but I wasn't around when that happened probably.
I actually took the liberty to ask them why they are aggressively grabbing PDM, and they told me they thought PDM grabbed LaF first twice early on this reset so they thought land exchanges were allowed.
I told them to back off, and I apologize for what's happening. I'm a bit upset that they would do stuff like this without running through me first, I for one don't like members undermining my overall agenda.
But we should talk and iron out any solutions.
----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
We had you guys as allies. We always sort of considered that more important than signing a pact. If that is not the case we'll happily recover/destroy our land and then consider signing terms to avoid long-term conflict. I thought we were past the point of you guys trying to have theos farm us and then jump but apparently I was wrong.
----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
do we have a pact actually? i think pang signed a 2 reset term and it expired.
but i do think the grabs are stupid, let's work a pact out to put an end to this madness =)
----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
Or do you want to be?
It seems you guys have started grabbing us.
And since previous posts got replied to, here is another vein of the correspondence.
From: Detmer
To: hanlong
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Are we friends?
Date: Feb 18th, 02:17
Message Body:
We grabbed you twice and the second time I contacted you asking for only L:L (as our pact terms had been higher) since it the guy posted acknowledging he made a mistake. That is very unlike the mass farming that you guys have put on us. If we even up here then I am happy to sign a long-term auto-renew pact that exists until actively terminated.
The first person has been grabbing tons of allies and I would say yes, is undermining what I am doing but since it is only one person it is easy to leave him out to dry for everyone.
----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
then the answer is a long term pact no?
not a one or two reset pact. i'm assuming you listed us free for grabs because we received two unprovoked too. i'm pretty sure it was not set on ur side also, unless they were undermining you also ;P
----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
How are they undermining your agenda if you had us listed as free for grabs? We still have you listed as friends but honestly I don't know if we want to formalize things if the result is just you guys doing your early techer grab and jump and getting away with it, again. If our guys can get our land back, or if you aren't going to be unhappy if we destroy the land, then we'd be happy to formalize an equitable relationship. We're just tired of being screwed over by this very same tactic. Had we been aware we had to watch out for you guys we could have prepared for it like we used to.
----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
i set you to DNH right now, but you want to sign a pact so we can make this official?
We wanted peace and would have gladly accepted a pact if hanlong would have ever offered reps or acres or simple revenge. Instead I got offers for pacts and a few messages showing us grabbing LaF (of course I got no acknowledgment of LaF grabbing us).
I am sorry if hanlong truly feels he got screwed here in some way but all we wanted was equitable peace, not the standard raped peace.