Because this looked fun...

Please note I am no longer playing actively nor am I in MD anymore, so these are purely my own opinions

1. hanlong betrayed us all. I always considered hanlong an elite player who was very good at what he did. I had the utmost respect for him, even during our war. I now feel very betrayed and have my doubts about whether anything he did was legit. I was also by far the most pro-Laf head in MD last reset. I could not believe that Laf was cheating and accepted hanlong's arguments for the most part. I even went through many calculations in my head and justified everything that Laf did. To know now that much of it was done through cheating, I feel very shocked.

2. With regards to whether or not Laf countries other than TC/HLW got aided, I do not know. I will say that I was indeed the top country in MD land-wise. However, I was definitely not the top country in terms of stock because I was playing a CI and military prices weren't all that high last reset. Who knows what the relative strength would have been had I been a techer. However, based on my recollection, Laf countries were significantly better than all of our techers. We had a fair amount of techers. While I am well aware that Laf is much more skilled at playing techer than MD is, I do feel there was an unexplained gap in quality of countries. I don't think there were 20 grabbing techers in Laf, so the grabbing does not explain it all away. At the end of the day, if you told me that 18/20 techers were clean, I would believe it. If you told me that more countries cheated, I could also believe that.

3. I do think SG has done a pretty good job in addressing the fallout so far. I really think one more step to be taken is to release all the information that hanlong gave to Laf that came from his "sources". We should be able to know what exactly hanlong said that gave you guys an advantage.

4. I think the Laf members need to do a slightly better job of just sucking it up. I think the leaders are doing a good job of responding, but the constant argument by members that "it was only two members" isn't going to fly because hanlong was your Don. Whether you like it or not, this casts a shadow over all of Laf. You ride together, you die together. Just suck it up and take what's coming. Don't troll (and don't accuse others of trolling). Laf is clearly in the wrong here, and being defensive is not going to make it any better.

5. Finally, I think hanlong owes us all an apology. He messed with the integrity of the game and threatened all the hard work that the admins have done for the game. He screwed Laf over and he screwed all of us. At least man up and apologize publicly.

lol highrock has his own response!!

Man up ? A cheater is usually a coward - a n00b starting this game is more brave than a person like hanlong.

They guy was paranoic too. Using his database cheat he saw that Sol was saving turns - and he fsed. But Sol usually saves turns starting week 3 of the reset.

Oh look, it's a laughing stock!

Hi laughing stock!

TC has spoken! now more drama to come from everyone else :)

Wow TC could you be any more of a whiner? You got caught cheating and you are still trying to blame it on other people. Man up and just apologize.

Your actions were not caused by anything Arsenal said or did to you. If you thought you had to cheat to prove him right then you probably aren't smart enough to lead an alliance.

EVO you got some explaining to do! Haha

TC, I wont even bother reading what you say. Leave the game, I am not even sure why you are not PERMA banned.

Really talk more though, please. Defend your actions. Ruins Lafs name more. RUIN the work Laf has been trying to do to save the situation. Please do it. Continue. Go on and speak more. Say how you were wronged.

I swear anything you say at this point besides "Sorry" will feed peoples reason to hate Laf.

Well, here I am hoping that we see a developer actually deny what you said, otherwise it all seems pointless.

o_O

YOU SHALL NOT POST!

TC: even TRYING to defend your actions and blame everything on everyone/anyone else at this point is truly pathetic. The simple fact is you and hanlong CHOSE to actively cheat in a manner far above and beyond anything that has occurred in earth previously, and you were caught at it multiple times.

Nothing really to defend Jinman.

They even deleted my restart lol. No one could ever think that country was cheating. I make a post here and it is deleted. It just shows how it really is political.

I mean, it's so bad that dev was trying to make changes to how ANW was calculated to try and give evo a easier shot at taking it.

On another thread Arsenal admitted (for the first time actually) how close he was with Lemon Chiffon. I posted how dirty Arsenal was at the time. He would like talk LC up to boting an alliance because LC really favored MD then Arsenal would 'talk him down' then go tell the other alliance that he'd stoped LC from boting them. I guess if you just post the truth and enough time passes people stop thinking it is controversial and quit avoiding it. MD getting RD DNHs LOL, his post will have to be dissected another time. So many inaccuracies + rage in it.

I am still confused why you are not perma banned.
If there was anything I am not happy with the admins right now, its that alone.

Aside of the pro laf parts from before the cheating and you have my official response. Not going to create a thread about it.

:P

Interesting post Drow. What I've been accused of here is basically souping up a single country in a war that was won before I did a single hit. Pretty low impact. Still took TNW even after they removed both countries (lol). Still, I've been removed from LaF and had that finish deleted which is all quite reasonable.

What will come out over time if people actually look into it (unlikely, because this is political not factual) is that most all of the information Hanlong got was completely legit. He didn't access any boxcar stuff, Pang confirmed this when he looked at the ssh logs and such. Yes, he had an account but it was well he had the MD logs and it was just used for a few days for a completely unrelated purpose. But Pang didn't post anything like that in his thread even though I clarified it for him earlier in email - because this is all just politics.

Anyway I hope that some sites will get off boxcar. I've locked it down pretty tight now. Pang will probably rage pretty hard, but this whole thing is Pang rage anyway - a fairly standard predictable thing that happens with him every few years.

honestly. alliance politics rarely come into development discussions. it's one of our unwritten rules to leave it out.

as to everything else TC is saying... just looks like trolling to me, and i don't like feeding the trolls.

TC what you and hanlong have done has serious criminal implications. Please watch the jail rape scene in The Shawshank Redemption.

Tc, get your head out of your ass and apologise you should of been banned the 1st time you cheated you werent, yet you still chose to Cheat? For what point or purpose clearly your fluffing bad it.
this community for the most part is fair and reasonable, hence you werent perma banned and for the most part i think everyone still wonders why you were given the chance. Why dont you just apologise for your actions and leave with maybe not with any form of respect from anyone here, but perhaps retain whatever dignity you have left (if any, i highly doubt you do). /endTCrant

As for Hanlong, i sympathise for the Lafers who were unaware of any cheating - for those of you who did your as bad as the cheater themselves for not sooner going to Admins and reporting it. GL working rep up with other clans & its about time hanlong got fkd off, im sure most people have had their suspicions for a long time.

Our logs show that Turtle Crawler was accessing the database too, and likely "gifted" himself 10m troops during a KR on his country;

that implies you accessed the database on multiple occasions, and that you were caught at it at least once.

further, whether you did it once or 500 times is irrelevant. the FACT is YOU DID IT. YOU did wrong, and YOU have now chosen to try passing the blame off.

You and Hanlong acted like douches and got caught at it. that simple.

Finally, to quote pang and the admin team:
This type of behaviour is completely unsupportive of and antagonistic towards the community; it makes admins lives more difficult and ruins their enjoyment of the game, and the enjoyment of others. How is it fun to just lie to win? How is it fun to cheat? How is it fun to abuse someone's trust?

It's not fun for us who are NOT in LaF, who miss out because you and hanlong chose to cheat.
It's not fun for the people IN LaF who now have to deal with the repercussions of you and hanlong's asshat actions, which now cast a pall all over the rest of the alliance.
Do you simply not get it, or are you just that much of a fluff/douche that you think it's ok?

TC first is dumb enough to get caught cheating... again... and then is dumb enough to come here and try and blame others for it. Speaks a lot to your character...

ahhh the old blame it on Arsenal defense, I like it!

Works for Chelsea.

damn you arsenal!!

Heres another good one for the community to rage over

About a year back maybe more one of EVO's admins accesses the database to look on information on a sof country and then posted it on AT sure they came clean about it and posted a formal apology on AT but fact still remains that they did it

I dont trust turtlecrawler worth a fluff, but tbh i dont really trust awhole lot of people in this game after all shady/cheating/bullfluff thats been going on in the past decade of this game

Really? I must have missed that. Can you post a link so I can see it please?

shouldn't the post have been removed by now because it contained country info?

im sure you also missed gamerstown leaking info like mad Nukevil, and the til wars etc all of it never happend in the world of nukevils

Ahh, so instead of posting a link, you're just going to sidestep the question by throwing up irrelevant information?

You and mrford were made for each other.

dead/deleted countries we sometimes allow at our discretion.

Gotta say, I really LOL'd over this. Thanks for making me spill my coffee!!

Well what is true is that gamerstown, GHQ & earthstats did/actively do 'spy' on site content. Boxcar is actually the odd one out in that regard. We never had a way to clone user accounts or peak into sites. Trust me it was annoying because sites would report bugs and we would have to get them to make us accounts so we could see the problem.

Seeing MD come back so forcefully against me was weird because just a few months ago I'd done exactly the same to fix a bug for them.

<3 TC

If you leave I'm going to have to find a new country name dude.

You had that country name before I came back.

Seems fair and accurate to me.

This is the most reasonable thoughtful thread, which is of course why I'm posting here first. Apparently Highrock is one of the higher class alliance leaders, and it shows.

Holy fluff pat your getting complimented by TC.

Wait, so you're holding boxcar hostage now because pang is angry at you for abusing his and everyone's trust? Please try and be reasonable.

Ahh, so you're not going to apologize for what you did, what you enabled to happen, or the repercussions on LaF as well as the rest of the game? You're going to just downplay it like certain other LaF mouthpieces have tried to do since the first announcement was posted?


See, what you should have said was something like this:

"I would like to apologize for my actions that led to the degradation of the legitimacy of LaF's actions in the server--recent and otherwise--, as well as for threatening the existence of the game itself, due to the fact that I gave someone who should never have had access to the database, access to the database. I regret the hurt and anguish that those actions have caused, to my friends and colleagues as well as to the rest of the players that use this game as a hedge for their free time. Even though the words I am posting right now can never undo what has been done, I humbly beg, on bended knees, that I be forgiven for my lapse in judgement, my shameful actions, and the fallout that has resulted from those actions. Please, please forgive me." And then you'd hit the "Submit Message" button as you drove over a cliff or something.

You see, a little humility and humbleness goes a long way, but instead, you've decided to blame others for your lack of judgement in this case. This scandal only happened because YOU gave Hanlong that access. Hanlong would not have gotten database access if YOU had not given it to him. What you posted in this thread shows me that not only are you not apologetic for your actions, but that you also plan to continue those actions whenever the opportunity arises. IMO, unless Hanlong decides to post here, and is similarly unapologetic, that makes you far worse than anything Hanlong ever did.

Hostage? No. I locked down access. I imagine EE did too. Pang has no need for server or database access anyway. Before on ee and boxcar access was just kinda handed out. That's changed. Now there will be process. Dev through svn then deploy. He has a QA server setup for it already and has for ages.

I'm not sure if Pang is angry at me or not. It isn't valid for him to be and it is hard to tell where he is in recovery from screwing up the PDM FR job.

I WAS able to conclude that the agreements between ee dev and myself are basically terminated. I have no more responsibility to anyone and am free to make my own decisions.

Wow. TC, you've shown yourself to be a bad business partner, a bad friend, and someone who believes the lies of others before the truth brought to you by ppl you should have trusted. You've held Boxcar hostage for game dev access, you've stolen stuff from the game server, you've done so many horrible things that I'm more pissed that I thought you were a decent person than anything else. I'm glad you have absolutely no credibility because you have been nothing but a thorn in the side of me and this project since before the game started. Without your souped up connection, it wouldn't have been anywhere close to being worth it to even keep talking to you.

You talk pretty highly of yourself and lowly of others when we actually had to delete all your code from EE because it was horrendous. You broke the game multiple times scraping the evo server, downloading databases and doing other unauthorized things.

How is this all a political thing when you've admitted to cheating?

I can't believe you would come here and post fluff like that. Your record of drama vs getting things done with EE, Boxcar or the game is laughable.

Grow up. I feel sorry for anyone who has to deal with the kind of bullfluff you bring to a project IRL.

PS. I downloaded all of Boxcar before we posted this because I expected you would lock me out. Like I said, grow up.

oh and PPS. I didn't write that thread. I wrote parts of it, but it was a group effort. I just posted it so it would carry more weight with those who think everything is political.

^

Good. No time to read it yet but I think I got the truth out of him.

you're such a bad person, TC. honestly... how can you look at yourself in the mirror? :-/

How can you be a deacon in your church with absolutely no morals? :p

This guy is twisted

Twisted and complicated ;)

Looks like Pang got everything he needed off of boxcar before he posted so I'm free in that regard too.

ya, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, eh?

I don't want to have to clean the door.

does that mean that my API key for uploading spyops isn't going to work anymore?

it'll still work once it's moved elsewhere.

Can anyone help me out? I just stepped in a huge pile of Turtle Crawler and got it all over my shoe. It looks like ill probably have to throw the shoe away. The smell is terrible.