Ghost acres are a welcome change for grabbing in comparison to 2025, it's making the grabbing competitive and still fun. However that will only be the case if alliances continue 1:1 retal policies.

Although there are some alliances who are moving towards land:land, if -all- alliances move towards land:land or land:land+ghost acres etc I feel that will have a long lasting negative effect on land grabbing tactics.

Discuss!

+1

L:L doesnt include ghost acres. an alliance that does L:L only takes back the raw acres that are lost. the attacking country gets to keep the ghost acres its generated, and the defending country get extra acres on top of the land to compensate for rebuild costs.

there shouldnt be a problem getting back L:L in 1 hit if youre not being a fluff and grabbing people with significantly more land then you.

yah that isnt fair/nice grabbing, cant we all just get along?

You will never convince anyone who actually nets in this game of your opinion but what Pain says is right.

1:1 can never exist because you have people who play low land all set who dont mind getting excessive military and hitting those with high land who can never get similar amounts back. There is no way to have enough defense to stop all attacks in this game and if you try then you are unable to net anymore.

Anything over 80% l:l probably serves only exists to further kill off/discourage grabbing in my eyes.

I dont see how hard it can be to formulate a retalling policy that protects both the netters and makes 1:1 available

Retal Policy

- Our retal policy is 1:1 on all non-topfeeds and land:land for topfeeds. A topfeed is defined as the defender having more than 125% the land/networth of the attacker. There is a 72 hour retal window for land:land and a 48 hour retal window for escalating retals.

so simple

defining topfeeds by land is retarded. 1:1 is how it should be for all.

PDM's policy is 80% L:L C:C otherwise 1:1.

So if the country who got hit is taking the retal they get L:L up to 80% of what they originally got (not counting ghost acres).

With this type of a retal policy both people can benefit. But some people still try to hit then jump or hit with excessive defense.

Whats a topfeed?

Ivan also your definition of a top feed doesn't make since because an optimal grab is going to be the same NW and the same acres. If I have more NW and more land my grab wont be as good. So you're trying to punish bad grabs and allow good grabs on you ;)

And then there's the people who come out the gate with 8k land and 50k turrets or something, and then call it a "top feed" when a vastly more built up country attacks them.

ive had people hit me when i was on 20k acers and they were on 5k. no way ill ever get my land back in 1 hit. thats y netting alliances have the topfeeds to protect players who work to get their land from those who slack all set then try for some quick land by hitting someone with alot of it

lol requiem so yer attacking sofs policies which is there to protect low nw members getting hit by high nw retards while PDMs policy is wide open for me to jump early and then do whaever i want

you sure are a clever one

Uhm, what? Ok, bonus.

you can have your policies.

we have our policies.

there we go, discussed.

I'm not attacking your policy just pointing out a flaw. You shouldn't be so defensive ;)

Your policy doesn't protect against that. When I run a low NW netter I HOPE someone like that hits me so I can use my stock and get a good retal back. You see if you're a low NW guy playing turns you should be able to buy up and break almost anyone within 48 hours, I know I always can. Also I'm more talking about the gains. So if I match my NW and Land to yours evenly or even slightly lower than yours by your definition its not a top feed however I'll gain more land than if I was 25% bigger than you which according to you the latter would be a top feed.

Do you not see the inconsistency there?

Also when is any SoF country so small that it can't retal? You guys war gain ever set with lots of military and stuff anyways!

If you're 4 times someone in land, you should be able to get enough defense to defend from said country...

Thought it was 1:1 on all non-topfeed 1:kill on everything else? :)

Yeah it's nice to rape some countries hitting low NW.
Although it's pain in the ass to sell those jets back

are you just trolling? its when the DEFENDER has 125% of the land. if you have 25% more land then youre just a retard for grabbing someone so much smaller.

125% is the threshhold where the defender can make a retal and get all its land back in 1 hit (unless hit by a tyr with milstrat).

country A is 10k acres, country B is 12.5k acres (125%). country A PSes country B and gains 1250(625). now country A is 11875 acres. country B retals and gains 1180(590) now country B is roughly 13k acres and country A is 10700. both countries gained acres off the transaction and everyone is happy. this are obviously based on 10% gains from a PS which is typical for a grab where you match networth to the country you hit.

there arent enough countries in the game, i sure as fluff am not paying for you to grab me and for me to lose acres on it.

not if he's running an all jet country. you can't always defend from an all jetter/topfeeder

I very much doubt you could retal anyone who hit you unless you are playing a techer or MAYBE an Indy and even then I doubt it. Casher or farmer simply can't retal a well run techer in the earlier portions of the set if both countries are trying to net. The people typically grabbing PDM are not doing the sort of grabbing which is terribly hard to retal.

Grab me please so I can rape you.

lol I am running an explore casher for now so I will take the path of not grabbing you :P

Oh and my last post said anyone. I did not mean to imply you could not retal anyone. I meant to say everyone. If you arent running a strat with high early production you simply can't retal the best early strats at that point if they are played well.

I am not tending to see many of these hypothetical all jetter 5k acre countries doing nothing but topfeeding people at 20k acres tbh. most of the "topfeed" hits I see tend to involve someone on 20k acres with say 100k turrets being PS'd by someone with say 14k acres, because they're too damn lazy to buy up a reasonable level of defence.

I personally don't mind the concept of topfeeding, however I believe that there needs to be a standard appplied to it, so that it is NOT being used to justify not running defence. If you can't buy at least an adequate measure of protection (and yes I am aware there is no such thing as perfect protection, but there are levels at which you stop being an instantaneous target), then you shouldn't be whining about being 'topfed' when someone takes advantage of your pathetic defence.

Or you could stop running crappy countries, and get military and bounce retals.

1:1 is for cowards who refuse to buy turrets.

You're a crappy country!

Rockman cannot have crappy countries, we all know he is perfect.

You hit me for 1000 (+500). I hit you for 330 (+175), 260 (+120), 300 (+140). I got back 89%, so by most formulae that fulfils the l:l requirement. You gained 1500 acres - 890 = 610. I gained 1325 - 1000 = 325. We both end up on top. What's the problem with that?

Why gain 610 when you can gain 1170?

Sometimes you dont want friendly exhanges :) Sometimes you do:)

You gained 325a, sure. But you lost 1000 buildings which you have to rebuild, some of which are CSes. Depending on your BPT, that might be worth 10-15 turns, and also the construction costs of that 1000 buildings.

As for him, he lost 800-890ish buildings (depends whether he builds his grab immediately) which he also has to rebuild on the "new 900ish acres (if 100ish was grabbed back)".

I'd be right there with ya Rockman but PDM's tag protection isn't quite as good as LaF's so i got grabbed... You on the other hand haven't been grabbed any! That helps a lot.

locket i politely say you are full of fluff. if everyone plays by 1:1 then it is a level playing field for all. you netters, and i am one of them ( ffa only ) just use l:l and tag pacting as protection and not turrets. Sure anyone can break anyone if they want to. 3 o ally vs 2 d ally. but how does l:l change the breaking ability? it does not, it is pacting that saves the netter.
and besides you are a grabber how do you pick targets? do you pick one cause you think the name sounds pretty, big pinky bear name? no you pick the one with the most land, but also you factor in the break. two countries have 25k land, one is 8 mil nw and the other is 6 mil nw (and i am a bad top feeder sitting at 4 mil nw ). duh i am going to hit the 6 mil nw country cause it uses less resources. i could break both if i wanted to.

you don't have to out run the bear, just out run your friend :P

time to let l:l go away and bring skill back to the game.

what do you want - keep letting rd land trade the top spots every set? get rid of l:l, loosen the pacts and you will not see that happening any more

how much defense should i get? 20m turrets? since if you spend some stock just about anyone can get 5 or 10 m jets even 20m isnt hard to get by spending some stock. so if someone wants to grab you they can very easy. but its not possible to defend against every attack.

if you want to break something it can be broken. there is nothing stopping them form spending all their stock to ruin my set by a grab.

lol you think a l:l policy is stopping someone from dumping stock and hitting you? and if you have 20 mil turr with 20k land then why would someone hit you? there are way easier targets then that.

your point is stupid. they will hit you because they don't like you or something your clan did. you think a l:l is going to stop them at that point?


next

If you want skill then 1:1 country to country should be the only retal options and then everyone would hate the top 10-15 laf players even more because they'd midfeed them. Same for the top in multiple alliances.

You will often find that Sol for example carries less defense than Evo/Laf countries. L:L is not used instead of turrets by most. Tag protection is but thats a different story.

What do you do if you are a 50k acre country and some 15k acre country decides to fluff with you? You will never get even a bit of your land back without l:l. People do that stuff ;)

then you fluff him up simple

take your land back, and be ready to fight to keep it.

have better defence locket, a 15k acre country shouldnt get anywhere near a 50k acre country.

If it is netting or the 15k acre country is running a techer strat and wants to blow everything on jets then it can very easily scode.

And Zip, that is the exact situation which started this year or two war with Laf and Sol and co. When one side doesnt care what happens to their countries and WANTS to war then how could that system possibly work?

Evo for example. Right now they don't have the huge membership that Laf does. If Sol decided they wanted to start grabbing Evo just to mess with them and try to push them into a war, what could Evo do other than call in friends or lose their land in retals? Nothing. This situation is obviously hypothetical but it is pretty similar to what happened in the past with netters being fluffed by war clans.

this is where i have to disagree with u scode, heres some #'s (i had help getting them) and id assume not land trading but bottom feeding 50k acre farmer

50k acres- land and buildings alone = 4mil nw
agriculture tech @220%= 1.9mil nw
500k spys=500k nw
1mil troops=500k nw
1mil jets=600k nw
1mil turrets=600knw
250k tanks= 500k nw

NW totaled comes to 8.6mil nw.. at that nw the smallest u can hit is 717k nw countries.

15k acres= 1.2milnw
tech on country= 1.9mil nw
750k spies= 750k nw
1.5mil troops= 750knw
250k tanks= 500k nw
2mil turrets= 1.2mil nw
3.120mil jets= 1.872 nw

nw totaled comes to 8.172 mil nw (95%) of the 50k acre countries nw

estimated gains from 1 PS on the 50k acre country using a 15k acre tyr with 135% mil strat is 14k acres, how are u suppose to get back 14k acres on a now roughly 29k acre country.

now obviously the 50k acre country could have had more defense. but then that means he would have inflated his nw. by land buildings and more tech, so by not allowing L:L u are telling that 50k acre country once he gets to a certain point get alot of defense and if u grabbed up to 50k acres in 5 weeks. u must pretty much explore or cash ur turns the next 1.5-2 weeks. thats telling someone how they have to play cause of people who like to grab fat countries and be jerks about it..

This thread is funny.

Because Primary and Express is operating on 1:1 C:C due to special GDI rules for these 2 servers (otherwise you risk entering a war), and it works fine.

The topfeeders topfeed because they know they will gain in the exchange, and because it slows down the top countries so other countries still have a chance (including the topfeeder himself) to catch up. Top countries simply have to carry enough defenses to deter this from happening so that other countries will be selected for topfeeding instead of themselves.

So someone gets topfed in the end either way in your way? Sounds like fun.

Last I checked, this was the Alliance server. Which means having an alliance with things like Retal Policies and Pacts. Pretty much derp.

C:C is more fun i think

boltar: why does the 50k acre country only have a 2 mil (maybe 4 mil by time you add full allies) break? that's just begging to be hit. I would expect a 50k acre country to have a raw break of 10 mil plus tbh. I could break 2 mil with ease from a 3 or 4 mil NW country.

I dont even know why people are arguing about this, topfeeding exists being in denial about it doesnt make it go away

Drow: it has that low break cause its a bottomfeeding still grabbing, if it buys more defense it can no longer bottomfeed. the point to all the #'s was to show a grabbing country that bottomfeeds against a techer or farmer with tech's that is prolly wargaining.. it would rape the grabber with ease.. hence why L:L is needed in some cases not just 1:1

Yah.. if you want to grab there is only so high you can go in net. You could probably go higher than that as long as you are one of the few who wants to spend the time to camp an even smaller selection of countries but there are limits if you want to grab in that way.