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H4xOr WaNgEr Game profile

Forum Moderator
1932

Mar 5th 2013, 22:12:37

you heard it here first.

H4xOr WaNgEr Game profile

Forum Moderator
1932

Mar 5th 2013, 22:14:11

ARACAS, Venezuela — President Hugo Chávez of Venezuela died Tuesday afternoon after a long battle with cancer, the government announced, leaving behind a bitterly divided nation in the grip of a political crisis that grew more acute as he languished for weeks, silent and out of sight in hospitals in Havana and Caracas.


Hugo Chavez 1954-2013


His departure from a country he dominated for 14 years casts into doubt the future of his socialist revolution. It alters the political balance in Venezuela, the fourth-largest foreign oil supplier to the United States, and in Latin America, where Mr. Chávez led a group of nations intent on reducing American influence in the region.

Mr. Chávez changed Venezuela in fundamental ways, empowering and energizing millions of poor people who had felt marginalized and excluded.

But Mr. Chávez’s rule also widened society’s divisions. His death is sure to bring more changes and vast uncertainty as the nation tries to find its way without its central figure.

With the president’s death, the Constitution says that the nation should “proceed to a new election” within 30 days, and that the vice president should take over in the meantime. The election is likely to pit Vice President Nicolás Maduro, whom Mr. Chávez designated as his political successor, against Henrique Capriles Radonski, a young state governor who ran against Mr. Chávez in a presidential election in October.

But there has been heated debate in recent months over clashing interpretations of the constitution, in light of Mr. Chávez’s illness, and it is impossible to predict how the post-Chávez transition will proceed.

Mr. Chávez’s supporters wept and flowed into the streets in paroxysms of mourning.

Mr. Chávez was given a diagnosis of cancer in June 2011, but throughout his treatment he kept many details about his illness secret, refusing to say what kind of cancer he had or where in his body it occurred. He had three operations from June 2011 to February 2012, as well as chemotherapy and radiation treatment, but the cancer kept coming back. The surgery and most other treatments were done in Cuba.

Then on Dec. 8, just two months after winning re-election, Mr. Chávez stunned the nation by announcing in a somber televised address that he needed yet another surgery.

That operation, his fourth, took place in Havana on Dec. 11. In the aftermath, grim-faced aides described the procedure as complex and said his condition was delicate. They eventually notified the country of complications, first bleeding and then a severe lung infection and difficulty breathing.

After previous operations, Mr. Chávez often appeared on television while recuperating in Havana, posted messages on Twitter or was heard on telephone calls made to television programs on a government station. But after his December surgery, he was not seen again in public, and his voice fell silent.

Mr. Chávez’s aides eventually announced that a tube had been inserted in his trachea to help his breathing, and that as a result he had difficulty speaking. It was the ultimate paradox for a man who seemed never at a loss for words, often improvising for hours at a time on television, haranguing, singing, lecturing, reciting poetry and orating.

As the weeks dragged on, tensions rose in Venezuela, and the situation turned increasingly bizarre. Officials in Mr. Chávez’s government strove to project an image of business as usual and deflected inevitable questions about a vacuum at the top. At the same time, the country struggled with an out-of-balance economy, troubled by soaring prices and escalating shortages of basic goods.

The opposition, weakened after defeats in the presidential election in October and elections for governor in December, in which its candidates lost in 20 of 23 states, sought to keep pressure on the government.

Trife Game profile

Member
5817

Mar 5th 2013, 22:23:06

The military appears to have already taken to the streets of Caracas

https://twitter.com/...09044747148857344/photo/1

As well as already kicked out the US Diplomat down there

http://www.npr.org/...o-destabilize-the-country

It'd be interesting to see some positive change in Venezuela, but I doubt any major changes will come about.

Trife Game profile

Member
5817

Mar 5th 2013, 22:24:24

Oh, not to mention that their VP blames the United States for Chavez getting cancer..

maybe he just drank too much aspartame!?!

H4xOr WaNgEr Game profile

Forum Moderator
1932

Mar 5th 2013, 22:27:54

I believe Chavez originally blamed the US for his illness, the VP has just been running with it.

hawkeyee Game profile

Member
1080

Mar 5th 2013, 22:34:34

Actually I heard it from CNN's alert on my phone first. Then from the TV. Then from my dad. Then from yahoo.com. And then here. At least you made the top 5!
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Marshal Game profile

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Mar 5th 2013, 22:35:18

big deal.

vp gets his mouth shut soon.
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mrford Game profile

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Mar 5th 2013, 22:36:21

you are tarded bro
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crest23 Game profile

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4666

Mar 5th 2013, 23:32:36

Shut, not shot. Talk about being retarded.
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Garry Owen Game profile

Member
850

Mar 6th 2013, 0:53:27

Nice. I like hearing good news on this board. :)

ninong Game profile

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1577

Mar 6th 2013, 1:12:06

bout time
ninong, formerly Johnny Demonic
IX

Vic Game profile

Member
6543

Mar 6th 2013, 1:45:19



this man personally stole countless acres and properties that had been in my dear friend's family for over 150 years. he ripped apart their businesses. he lied to and cheated the poor and he disrespected the very families who developed that country.

he played off of class warfare and did so to make all classes weaker. he was a true manipulator and a truly power hungry man.



just so grateful that my friend's family may have a chance at reclaiming some of their properties and businesses.

martian Game profile

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Mar 6th 2013, 1:52:55

it's typical south america though:(
you are all special in the eyes of fluff
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braden Game profile

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11,480

Mar 6th 2013, 2:42:55

even in death his name sounds like a cologne

Dibs Ludicrous Game profile

Member
6702

Mar 6th 2013, 8:28:27

no miracle cure for cancer in Cuba?
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Pontius Pirate

Member
EE Patron
1907

Mar 6th 2013, 12:05:45

http://data.worldbank.org/...ountries/VE?display=graph

http://data.worldbank.org/...ountries/VE?display=graph

http://data.worldbank.org/...ountries/VE?display=graph

http://data.worldbank.org/...ountries/VE?display=graph


oh no but vic's friends had this land that they had held for 150 years stolen :O

chavez had a lot of bad policies as well and crime and inflation were rampant during his regime but overall the poor made out pretty well during his regime
Originally posted by Cerberus:

This guy is destroying the U.S. Dollars position as the preferred exchange for international trade. The Chinese Ruan is going to replace it soon, then the U.S. will not have control of the IMF

Vic Game profile

Member
6543

Mar 6th 2013, 12:18:14

smmikey cmon man how can you even say that???
the poor made out pretty well during his regime?!?!?!

have you ever been to caracas bro!??!?!?!?!?!
take a trip in the next few weeks and let me know what you think.
guarantee you won't be saying that again.



never have i seen so much outward poverty and struggle in my life. and i've been all over.





and listen man,

Vic Game profile

Member
6543

Mar 6th 2013, 12:22:08

chavez wouldn't even let the worldbank enough access to conduct proper survey most of the time!

so don't let those numbers fool you. just take a trip there.




and what i didn't mention is that my friend's family had given quite a lot to the community, to caracas, to the farmers, etc.
one of the properties chavez confiscated had been in my friend's family since 1812. they had all the documents to prove and chavez took it away under some bs law he enacted - even though the family still met all requirements to keep the land.

and this land and estate? was it redistributed to poor farmers and land tenants?
no.
it is now the headquarters for chavez' police. lmfao.







all i'm saying is redistribution is economically inefficient. especially over there.

Pontius Pirate

Member
EE Patron
1907

Mar 6th 2013, 12:41:56

Caracas is not more "outwardly" poor than similar Latin American cities. La Paz, Lima, Bogota etc. all pretty much look the same... I've never been to Caracas but pretty much everything I've read supports the idea that it's not really distinguishable, except for high crime rates.

Look I sympathise and forcibly taking land is wrong almost always, but at the same time Venezuela had an established and entrenched upper class in place prior to Chavez and a very unequitable distribution of income. Chavez decided to get rid of it quick instead of a more gradual approach involving high taxation etc that is more conventional. Probably hurt the economy on aggregate but there's not much denying that the poor made out ok from his reign. Of course you can bring up the counterfactual of "what would have happened if moderate social democratic policies had been followed instead?" and cited Brazil there as a counterargument, though I don't think Brazil has tackled the worst types of poverty as well as Venezuela (they've done a great job with creating a middle class though)
Originally posted by Cerberus:

This guy is destroying the U.S. Dollars position as the preferred exchange for international trade. The Chinese Ruan is going to replace it soon, then the U.S. will not have control of the IMF

TheORKINMan Game profile

Member
1305

Mar 6th 2013, 17:01:48

I don't give a fluff about whether he helped out some poor people. He was a dictator that just did whatevertf he wanted, rule of law be damned. He aided and abetted leaders of other countries who are worse than him just so he could prop up his scapegoat of the United States as well. The world as a whole is better rid of him despite what the poor people in Venezuela may think.
Smarter than your average bear.

Requiem Game profile

Member
EE Patron
9092

Mar 6th 2013, 18:18:46

Chavez was worth 2b when he died... Where did he get that?

General Earl Game profile

Member
896

Mar 6th 2013, 19:15:39

Originally posted by TheORKINMan:
I don't give a fluff about whether he helped out some poor people. He was a dictator that just did whatevertf he wanted, rule of law be damned. He aided and abetted leaders of other countries who are worse than him just so he could prop up his scapegoat of the United States as well. The world as a whole is better rid of him despite what the poor people in Venezuela may think.


I'm open to the idea that a dictatorship in some ways could be more efficient and beneficial for the people of a country if done correctly. We never see this happen because the spin media puts on any non-democratic country. Example: Saddam Hussein, was actually a good leader for his people. His way didnt jive with western beliefs, however his iron fist brought prosperity to the country.
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H4xOr WaNgEr Game profile

Forum Moderator
1932

Mar 6th 2013, 19:38:18

I'm not going to argue that he was a good leader or even a good guy. However, I will argue that he was democratically elected :P

Requiem Game profile

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EE Patron
9092

Mar 6th 2013, 20:19:55

Define democratically elected in this case!

Marshal Game profile

Member
32,589

Mar 6th 2013, 20:21:36

Originally posted by H4xOr WaNgEr:
However, I will argue that he was democratically elected :P


just like saddam hussein etc. :P
Patience: Yep, I'm with ELK and Marshal.

ELKronos: Patty is more hairy.

Gallery: K at least I am to my expectations now.

LadyGrizz boobies is fine

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Pontius Pirate

Member
EE Patron
1907

Mar 6th 2013, 21:08:18

Originally posted by Marshal:
Originally posted by H4xOr WaNgEr:
However, I will argue that he was democratically elected :P


just like saddam hussein etc. :P
err no, democratically elected in fair elections, not like saddam hussein
Originally posted by Cerberus:

This guy is destroying the U.S. Dollars position as the preferred exchange for international trade. The Chinese Ruan is going to replace it soon, then the U.S. will not have control of the IMF

TheORKINMan Game profile

Member
1305

Mar 6th 2013, 21:38:21

He was presumably democratically elected. However being democratically elected doesn't mean you have unlimited power to oppress and circumvent the rule of law.
Smarter than your average bear.

Dibs Ludicrous Game profile

Member
6702

Mar 6th 2013, 21:56:27

don't beat a dead fluff, err, horse, or is it whip?
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Pontius Pirate

Member
EE Patron
1907

Mar 6th 2013, 21:59:02

Originally posted by TheORKINMan:
He was presumably democratically elected. However being democratically elected doesn't mean you have unlimited power to oppress and circumvent the rule of law.
Why are you saying presumably?

And no, it doesn't give you the power to oppress.
Originally posted by Cerberus:

This guy is destroying the U.S. Dollars position as the preferred exchange for international trade. The Chinese Ruan is going to replace it soon, then the U.S. will not have control of the IMF

Pontius Pirate

Member
EE Patron
1907

Mar 6th 2013, 21:59:25

Originally posted by Dibs Ludicrous:
don't beat a dead fluff, err, horse, or is it whip?
don't beat a dead whip
Originally posted by Cerberus:

This guy is destroying the U.S. Dollars position as the preferred exchange for international trade. The Chinese Ruan is going to replace it soon, then the U.S. will not have control of the IMF

TheORKINMan Game profile

Member
1305

Mar 6th 2013, 22:31:47

Originally posted by Pontius Pirate:
Originally posted by TheORKINMan:
He was presumably democratically elected. However being democratically elected doesn't mean you have unlimited power to oppress and circumvent the rule of law.
Why are you saying presumably?

And no, it doesn't give you the power to oppress.


Is there something inaccurate about the term? It is presumed he was democratically elected.
Smarter than your average bear.

Pontius Pirate

Member
EE Patron
1907

Mar 6th 2013, 23:02:28

Why should you note that it's only a presumption? You probably wouldn't do so if someone asked you "was the 2012 US presidential election fair?" It's just your normal neocon "he was in the axis of evil therefore he can not be democratic or good in any way" bias coming through.
Originally posted by Cerberus:

This guy is destroying the U.S. Dollars position as the preferred exchange for international trade. The Chinese Ruan is going to replace it soon, then the U.S. will not have control of the IMF

Cerberus Game profile

Member
EE Patron
3849

Mar 6th 2013, 23:15:01

And good riddance to another tin horn.
I don't need anger management, people need to stop pissing me off!

ColoOutlaw

Member
475

Mar 6th 2013, 23:46:31

Originally posted by Pontius Pirate:
Caracas is not more "outwardly" poor than similar Latin American cities. La Paz, Lima, Bogota etc. all pretty much look the same... I've never been to Caracas but pretty much everything I've read supports the idea that it's not really distinguishable, except for high crime rates.

Look I sympathise and forcibly taking land is wrong almost always, but at the same time Venezuela had an established and entrenched upper class in place prior to Chavez and a very unequitable distribution of income. Chavez decided to get rid of it quick instead of a more gradual approach involving high taxation etc that is more conventional. Probably hurt the economy on aggregate but there's not much denying that the poor made out ok from his reign. Of course you can bring up the counterfactual of "what would have happened if moderate social democratic policies had been followed instead?" and cited Brazil there as a counterargument, though I don't think Brazil has tackled the worst types of poverty as well as Venezuela (they've done a great job with creating a middle class though)


Haha this idiot cracks me up.

Pontius Pirate

Member
EE Patron
1907

Mar 7th 2013, 0:01:04

Originally posted by ColoOutlaw:
Originally posted by Pontius Pirate:
Caracas is not more "outwardly" poor than similar Latin American cities. La Paz, Lima, Bogota etc. all pretty much look the same... I've never been to Caracas but pretty much everything I've read supports the idea that it's not really distinguishable, except for high crime rates.

Look I sympathise and forcibly taking land is wrong almost always, but at the same time Venezuela had an established and entrenched upper class in place prior to Chavez and a very unequitable distribution of income. Chavez decided to get rid of it quick instead of a more gradual approach involving high taxation etc that is more conventional. Probably hurt the economy on aggregate but there's not much denying that the poor made out ok from his reign. Of course you can bring up the counterfactual of "what would have happened if moderate social democratic policies had been followed instead?" and cited Brazil there as a counterargument, though I don't think Brazil has tackled the worst types of poverty as well as Venezuela (they've done a great job with creating a middle class though)


Haha this idiot cracks me up.
Would mean something if it wasn't coming from someone who was completely pwned in your two past attempts to pretend to know about economics.
Originally posted by Cerberus:

This guy is destroying the U.S. Dollars position as the preferred exchange for international trade. The Chinese Ruan is going to replace it soon, then the U.S. will not have control of the IMF

ColoOutlaw

Member
475

Mar 7th 2013, 0:23:21

Hahahaha

blid

Member
EE Patron
9319

Mar 7th 2013, 1:32:18

Originally posted by Pontius Pirate:
http://data.worldbank.org/...ountries/VE?display=graph

http://data.worldbank.org/...ountries/VE?display=graph

http://data.worldbank.org/...ountries/VE?display=graph

http://data.worldbank.org/...ountries/VE?display=graph


oh no but vic's friends had this land that they had held for 150 years stolen :O

chavez had a lot of bad policies as well and crime and inflation were rampant during his regime but overall the poor made out pretty well during his regime
RIP.
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TheORKINMan Game profile

Member
1305

Mar 7th 2013, 1:52:15

Originally posted by Pontius Pirate:
Why should you note that it's only a presumption? You probably wouldn't do so if someone asked you "was the 2012 US presidential election fair?" It's just your normal neocon "he was in the axis of evil therefore he can not be democratic or good in any way" bias coming through.


It has nothing to do with the axis of evil nonsense and more to do with the fact that he had objectively autocratic tendencies.
Smarter than your average bear.

Mr. Copper

Member
112

Mar 7th 2013, 3:08:01

Originally posted by Pontius Pirate:
Why should you note that it's only a presumption? You probably wouldn't do so if someone asked you "was the 2012 US presidential election fair?" It's just your normal neocon "he was in the axis of evil therefore he can not be democratic or good in any way" bias coming through.



Has nothing to do with Neocon or whether he was evil. The election results were called into question numerous times during his 14 year stint.

There is nothing "neocon" about the huffington post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...tions-2012_b_1954929.html

ColoOutlaw

Member
475

Mar 7th 2013, 3:18:06

It's useless trying to explain anything to a monkey like PP. You might be able to teach him really simple things like his name but eventually he will just revert to throwing his poop around.

Kinnin Game profile

Member
73

Mar 7th 2013, 4:00:16

There were numerous allegations in recent Venezualen elections of widespread and rampant electoral fraud. So no, we can't say that the elections were fair.

http://www.cnn.com/...ion/frum-chavez-venezuela

Pontius Pirate

Member
EE Patron
1907

Mar 7th 2013, 9:02:45

Originally posted by Mr. Copper:
Originally posted by Pontius Pirate:
Why should you note that it's only a presumption? You probably wouldn't do so if someone asked you "was the 2012 US presidential election fair?" It's just your normal neocon "he was in the axis of evil therefore he can not be democratic or good in any way" bias coming through.



Has nothing to do with Neocon or whether he was evil. The election results were called into question numerous times during his 14 year stint.

There is nothing "neocon" about the huffington post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...tions-2012_b_1954929.html
There is everything neocon about that post, it's completely biased. It mentions all the things you would expect from an anti-Chavez article - increasing crime, complaints about his control of the media, complaints about his treatment of the judiciary while conveniently skirting his achievements with the economy and reducing inequality. Now, don't get me wrong, the government controlling media the way Chavez does is bad (but I should also point out that the opposition "controls" the private media). But private media is not banned in Venezuela. RCTV is not restricted to Caracas (and as the article neglects to mention, 5 of the other biggest cities in Venezuela) because of policy but because it was unable to make money. While state media did create an advantage for Chavez and the incumbent government, the articles exaggerate the impact just like they exaggerate everything else. The article decides to call into question the election results without actually providing a SINGLE source that would have questioned the election results themselves. Hell, even the opposition didn't question the 2012 election results.

Now, as OrkinMan has said, Chavez has gone about changing laws more liberally than is merited. For instance, he changed the law to allow his re-election. This is probably bad, but is not "autocratic" in the sense that he had popular support to change the law as well as the required numbers in parliament.

Originally posted by Kinnin:
There were numerous allegations in recent Venezualen elections of widespread and rampant electoral fraud. So no, we can't say that the elections were fair.

http://www.cnn.com/...ion/frum-chavez-venezuela
Well if there are widespread allegations, maybe you could post a link to one? Because your link simply contains an insinuation that Chavez might have cheated because "he felt that he could lose but then won by 10 points" and then the same criticism of his policies that HuffPo printed.
Originally posted by Cerberus:

This guy is destroying the U.S. Dollars position as the preferred exchange for international trade. The Chinese Ruan is going to replace it soon, then the U.S. will not have control of the IMF

Pontius Pirate

Member
EE Patron
1907

Mar 7th 2013, 9:03:59

Originally posted by ColoOutlaw:
It's useless trying to explain anything to a monkey like PP. You might be able to teach him really simple things like his name but eventually he will just revert to throwing his poop around.
I'm just going to quote this from the last time we talked:

Originally posted by tellarion:
Pretty sure ColoOutlaw is retarded. I may or may not be an expert on that, but I might be able to find a wiki article that backs up that claim.

Also, Keynes. Cause name dropping on an internet message board is a thing.
Originally posted by Cerberus:

This guy is destroying the U.S. Dollars position as the preferred exchange for international trade. The Chinese Ruan is going to replace it soon, then the U.S. will not have control of the IMF

Eric171 Game profile

Member
460

Mar 7th 2013, 11:26:34

He won't be missed.

While supposedly governing for the poor, he left venezuela's economy and industry a mess, left his country under a weird heavy cuban influence, weakened the essential state institutions (judiciary, legislative and local governments), weakened human fundamental rights (free speach, free press, free assembly, property rights, etc), supported FARC and almost started a war with colombia over it, almost caused a military coup in Paraguay, and supported several other latim american presidents undermine democracy in their own countries (Argentina, Ecuador, Bolivia and Nicaragua).

That is from the top of my head.

Too bad bolivarianism won't die with him.

BladeEWG Game profile

Member
2191

Mar 7th 2013, 12:19:23

D@mmit, had I known this job was opening up I'd not have put in for Pope :(

Vic Game profile

Member
6543

Mar 7th 2013, 13:03:56

heh.
Dictatorship works, but only in alliance server - and a high bpt is required, along with rigorous and NW matched land trading.

ericownsyou5 Game profile

Member
1262

Mar 7th 2013, 14:45:09

^^ Or if you're oldman in Primary..

ColoOutlaw

Member
475

Mar 7th 2013, 15:06:06

Originally posted by Pontius Pirate:
Originally posted by ColoOutlaw:
It's useless trying to explain anything to a monkey like PP. You might be able to teach him really simple things like his name but eventually he will just revert to throwing his poop around.
I'm just going to quote this from the last time we talked:

Originally posted by tellarion:
Pretty sure ColoOutlaw is retarded. I may or may not be an expert on that, but I might be able to find a wiki article that backs up that claim.

Also, Keynes. Cause name dropping on an internet message board is a thing.



Lol nice one Pip!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHD2VRJvPUU

That's on behalf of almost every Coloradan that plays EE.

Cerberus Game profile

Member
EE Patron
3849

Mar 7th 2013, 23:25:58

Well, for all of you standing up for the socialist bastard, why didn't you move there when you thought it would be so good? How come you're still here?
I don't need anger management, people need to stop pissing me off!

Pain Game profile

Member
4849

Mar 7th 2013, 23:29:44

Originally posted by Cerberus:
Well, for all of you standing up for the socialist bastard, why didn't you move there when you thought it would be so good? How come you're still here?


the ones sticking up for him are from socaialist countries themselves
Your mother is a nice woman