Early grabbing vs. block exploring

PaceBooM

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May 9th 2014, 10:22:55

When I'm talking about block exploring here in primary I'm talking about exploring to 7k+ acres and then starting to grab.
I tried it last set thinking that might keep the number of possible targets to grab later greater. I dunno, in the end I ended up with about the same acreage as the others (although I ate two massive late-set retals) and had problems with finding targets during mid-set anyways.
Still, I think I'm gonna do the same thing this set.
What are your thoughts on that?

Requiem

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May 9th 2014, 11:24:21

I haven't played primary much but my guess is it would make you a LG target for being land fat (more land than defense). Also bulk exploring puts you behind in tech etc...

Bulk exploring is only useful in alliance where your tag can protect you.

PaceBooM

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May 9th 2014, 12:00:20

That's why I only do it to 7k+ acres.
That usually puts me into top 10 playing indy. So exploring until that acreage is viable. That's why I asked in the first place to see if there's more experience.

Requiem

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May 9th 2014, 12:04:41

Here is the thing tho... You are 7k acres, and yes have explored a few more acres because of the batch however your income is not that of a guy who explored one BPT at a time and built. Also you will be behind in tech.

That puts you at a disadvantage on a solo server me thinks?

LATC

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May 9th 2014, 13:52:49

I do a tech startup at 4k acres but after I tried exploring once to 6k (wasn't land fat since I teched longer), but it put me behind a few days in land. What I like to do now is do a grab or two a day of ppl at 1.05% of my NW for a few days to catch up after tech phase - usually the top players have already floated up so the ppl I end up grabbing are just fat and not going to retal.

Originally posted by Xinhuan:

Are you guys stupid or what?

blid

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May 9th 2014, 14:26:15

Originally posted by Requiem:

What you're arguing here isn't the merits of explorting to 7k vs exploring to 3800 or 1900, right? You're just talking about batch exploring vs. exploring bit by bit?

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

blid

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May 9th 2014, 14:27:08

Originally posted by LATC:

Yes, that's exactly how to move on from your tech start. But non-tech starters have more turns to spare for things like extra exploring.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

hsifreta

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May 9th 2014, 14:28:10

pace, i wouldnt block at all if im playing commi. but thats me.

Serpentor

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May 9th 2014, 15:24:44

Neither would I.

I used to do the first batch explore at 1900 to 3800 or whatever... But then they added that production drop when you have empty acres. Then it was definitely better to not batch anymore. In my opinion it's now more efficient to just build up the CS early, then hit those low targets that would normally be out of your range later anyways. Those targets won't effect your grabbing selection later and you won't run out of targets.

The EEVIL Empire

blid

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May 9th 2014, 16:54:07

Production drop doesn't come from empty acres I don't believe - unless I'm mistaken it comes from having less than max population... I'm not sure, would exploring little by little limit that penalty?

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

Cable

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May 9th 2014, 18:12:45

Originally posted by blid:

Production drop doesn't come from empty acres I don't believe - unless I'm mistaken it comes from having less than max population... I'm not sure, would exploring little by little limit that penalty?

You can see an actual production drop as a CI when batch exploring because your land doesnt fill up right away when you explore thus you population actually drops below 80% of what it can hold do to mass turns exploring. I just did it for 19 turns and went down about 1 spy 15 turrets and 45 jets compounding the last 10 turns of exploring.

blid

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May 9th 2014, 18:26:45

Right, I know you'll see the production drop, but say you only exp 2 turns at a time, you'll also see a slight drop each time you do that. So then you build that land up, which takes 1 turn, does the population really significantly recover in that 1 turn? Probably not, although then repeat that process 30 times, and maybe it starts making a difference.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

KoHeartsGPA

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May 9th 2014, 19:59:53

Interesting, I'll stick to my programmed startup to 5k then start grabbing :-)

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Serpentor

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May 9th 2014, 23:41:02

Once you're down to 80% of max pop it starts diminishing your production. So as you're gaining that land over 86 turns exploring, your pop can't catch up in time and reduces your production more and more until it can catch up. The notice in the other forum said it has a floor of 20% I think.

The EEVIL Empire

Xinhuan

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May 10th 2014, 1:29:09

Batch exploring is bad because it slows down your BPT goal. That is, consider if you spend X turns to explore Y land. You probably could have used half as many turns to grab the same Y land, and build 20 more CS. On the whole, you end up losing turns due to having a lower BPT in your mid-game and late-game if you batch explore early.

Requiem

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May 10th 2014, 3:28:32

You also forgot to mention building costs are more bulk exploring plus you don't buy tech every turn or so. You fall behind production wise.

I'm not a fan of batch exploring myself. That's just my preference I guess.

blid

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May 10th 2014, 3:32:37

But how much more land do you get? Like the 1900 -> 3800 batch explore, you get 45apt all the way. You can do it in 42 turns. I'm old and set in my ways but I can't imagine exploring piece meal to get to 3800. Maybe I'm hurting myself though. Maybe the population impact on efficiency killed the batch explore. If you start exploring piecemeal at 45apt and finish exploring at 27bpt then avg (sloppy calculation) is 36apt, which means 1900 acres would take 53 turns instead of 42... cost of 11 turns.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

hsifreta

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May 10th 2014, 9:19:49

omg we're giving away game secrets =P

yeah i explore 1 bpt a time.

Requiem

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May 10th 2014, 11:25:56

blid, I'll test it out sometime to see.

Do you ever batch explore past 3800?

**Also if you're a good player doing one batch explore to 3800 isn't going to wreck you even if it is less efficient.

Marshal

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May 10th 2014, 13:24:35

my batchexplores from 1.9k acres (1915-1920 acres and fully built) end up either bit short or bit over 3.8k.

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Xinhuan

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May 10th 2014, 18:50:24

When I say batch exploring is bad, I mean it in a way that exploring is bad. That is, I grab all my land from 1900 onwards. Or maybe 2500, depending on when I stopped exploring.

I only resume exploring (non-techer) after reaching BPT goal with daily excess turns.

blid

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May 11th 2014, 2:41:07

Originally posted by Requiem:

blid, I'll test it out sometime to see.

Do you ever batch explore past 3800?

**Also if you're a good player doing one batch explore to 3800 isn't going to wreck you even if it is less efficient.

i think exploring to 3800 is fine and i do explore past 3800 sometimes but that's mostly in express. but one thing i like about it is you can go lower turrets without having to worry about being retaled (cuz you havent attacked), and you can get a lot of money/tech from that. if someone else hits you, you can take a nice retal yourself.

i actually explored to 7700 in express a few sets back when i scored over 36m, one of the best scores of all time

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

Xinhuan

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May 11th 2014, 4:13:07

That works in Express because you can store 360 turns, and the batch explore is so large you can take advantage of the batched explore rate per turn.

You can't explore more than 86 turns max (give or take a few turns) on Primary.

blid

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May 11th 2014, 4:20:00

Mmm, I don't think batch exploring matters after 1900 -> 3800, so turn count is not an issue

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

blid

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May 11th 2014, 4:20:52

Anyway, didn't you say your point was not about batch exploring at all, but about exploring in general being less efficient?

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

Xinhuan

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May 11th 2014, 10:03:19

Yep.

But because you can batch an insane number of turns on Express, it is actually fairly efficient, and only on that one server.

blid

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May 11th 2014, 13:24:30

I dunno, then you get to that issue where you're taking a million turns on unbuilt, unteched, unpopulated land.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.