ya, DM never had access to any information which wasn't public anyways... maybe intra-forum messages could be considered "privilaged" data that he could have viewed, but that was short lived for obvious reasons.

It was unfortunate that he proved to be completely untrustworthy
not sure why you feel the need to bring that up, archaic...

I DO have a say in Slag's integrity, and I will form a panel to consider it. The sole member of this panel will be me.

The panel has come to a decision.... Slag's integrity is valid.

Everyone can move on now.

AoS: I believe you and I will have some sort of Timecop situation going on here shortly!

good explanation Slagpit :)

the analogy of landgrabbing being stealing does not apply...

there are no laws against landgrabbing

I an honestly surprised that so many people actually believe that being grabbed at ALL is wrong. That is an inherent problem on this server and a core reason why it's become the way it is.

slag's post sums up what I believe as well...

new players that come to the server and keep playing aren't going to be untagged fodder, they're going to be people who want to play the game the way it's meant to be played. Not just sit back and hit the explore button all set.

What is the point of all our landgrabbing formula changes when people are still simply unwilling to hit eachother?

also, nuke... yes... I'm sure we discussed that as well :p

Who wants me to delete TAN's post?

I think we require VENGEANCE for his failure to grasp the concept of this thread!!!

or you can go to your closet, get out your dEVO album and whip it!

There's no need for all the RAGE, de1i.

Maybe you should grow a sense of humour and LaF it up with everyone else!

Kessela, try to control your LUST.

I'm really hopeful that we'll see a reGenesis of the server to provide a lot of the diversity! :)

lol ya... my response was kind of mean and overboard :-/

accept my apologies for that... things get heated :)

as for the content though... I think that the tunnel vision is on both sides... people have to start realizing that THEY have to up their game too and not expect LaF to "be nice" and not play to their full potential. LaF does recognize that they hit more than anyone else.... and are usually the easiest to vilify as farmers of some folks. But it's within the game rules... just like if SoL randomly felt like doing 20 grabs on us a day or something. Players need to get land from somewhere.... so eventually someone has to be hit, and no one ever feels it should be them :p

I mean at this point, we've actually TOLD the players how they can effectively create tag protection.... can they at least TRY that before it's instantly dismissed?

We're not actually bad folks... we realize land has to come from somewhere and we don't like taking it from active players or anyone who is going to quit over it. It's part of the game to land grab people.... I would agree that if we were in a situation where we have a "static" community that will never ever grow no matter what we did, then there would be a case for this, but it would be more of an appeal to the PLAYERS. It's not like the players would stop if they moved to a different alliance. They may even be WORSE, if it's an alliance who doesn't feel like controlling their members at all.

[Puts on admin hat]
In the grand scheme of where the game is moving, it's not going to be an issue much longer. We're spending all our time working on the FB move, which should substantially increase the size of the pool of players to recruit from for this server, and a lot will probably come over on their own as well. Once we're done all that, I think our next "major" project is some kind of AI element, so that will also help the land situation.

The combination of those two should ensure that there is a large enough pool of land/countries to draw from that EVERYONE can go back to a more normal style of grabbing....

The kind where flaming is not necessary every single day :)

my head's in h4's ass? hmm?

ruth, I don't know why you're trying to join the anti-LaF bandwagon again... why are you jumping into this again now? :p

I was always of the opinion that based on your VERY pro-IX attitude before and after the IX-LaF wars, and your very anti-LaF attitude you displayed throughout the game's history that you were feeding info back to IX regardless. I don't care what you say, I believe you were feeding info back to them. And you will not change my mind on that no matter what you say :p

My post's not meant to try and discredit you as a person, just to blow a hole in your argument... when you were in LaF, did you see us saying "this will be a set where we farm alliance A!!"?
Of course you didn't, because we don't do that. We never plan to farm anyone other than in a war-based manner, where all the proper paperwork is filed before the war starts...

I'll say it again, even though people seem to keep continually ignoring it"

LAF OFFERED A PACT TO ELYSIUM. THE PACT WAS REJECTED BY ELYSIUM.

They actively decided to make LaF into an enemy over the last two sets... that was their decision, not ours and they are reaping what they sew, I guess. If you guys want to talk about the bigger problem of the lack of land on this server, I'm always up for a debate about that.

I really feel that all the LaF haters are simply trying to scapegoat the problems of the server onto LaF, when the real issues are within each and every one of the complaining alliances who don't bring the same level of dedication and skill that LaF brings to the table.

I'll rephrase a question that Slag posed a while ago and people don't seem to discuss at all: How is what LaF is doing worse than alliances randomly blindsiding people while they're netting? How is it worse than forcing people to fight who don't want to fight for a year or so?

You're all REALLY pissed off at LaF for "driving" 4 members from the game. What about the 35 from Evo? What about the 40 from NA? How about TIE needing to merge into LCN?

These are all things that LaF had ABSOLUTELY no hand in and hurt the game MUCH more.... but few people on this thread stood up and said it needs to stop. Those who were got told to quit whining and fight.

I find it highly hypocritical how most of the people who claim LaF is "killing the game" were fine with warring alliances "killing the game" for the last 2 or 3 years. At one point, they even SAID that was their strategy. Come on people.

Like I said before... this is like the US healthcare debate.

well Ruth, you played in LaF for a set or two during the IX wars... almost definitely attempting to spy for them, IMO

did you see a farm list other than perhaps war targets? :p

This is just getting ridiculous...

you guys are all like the republicans during the healthcare debate.... just making fluff up to push your agenda, which doesn't actually look at the best way for the people to benefit.

ya, I think when we were discussing it within LaF, the idea was that we'd do country:country on the first hit on the country, but if 2 or more are made, it's opened up to the whole alliance or something

with a player base this small on this server, it begins to make more sense to move to that type of model. There would be a lot of wars over it, though :p

oh my god people just aren't reading our posts

there is no farm list, there is no evil anti-ely measures being enacted in LaF.

ely rejected our pact, they ran not so great countries, they talked crap to us... why is it LaF's fault that Ely is in a position where they are being hit a lot?

Like come on folks, let's call a spade a spade here.... I like ely, they were in LaF for a while a few years ago hiding from being tagkilled by IX & co, some old Ely members still play in LaF now, since they enjoyed it. But Ely has been on a downward slide for quite sometime... they got in a dumb war 2 sets ago, they were in Rage last set and basically caused the LaF vs Rage war to happen, and this set they come out with 4 countries, none of which are deterrents and refuse to pact LaF? LaF tried to leave Ely alone, but they didn't want any part of that... apparently.

Everyone on this server is going to be in for a rude awakening when new players come to this server and don't take part in FR negotiations, don't sign pacts... just hit everything that moves with no regard for the past, the status quo or anything else that this server clings to :p

As an admin, we're working on ways to alleviate the land situation (ghost acres was one way... but everyone still feels like they should never, ever be grabbed, so that change isn't really helping the way it should....)

also, regarding respect: if we were to NOT play to our utmost against people like Ely, that would show a lack of respect. Like we've all kept saying, we should be focusing on increasing the country quality of the little guys who feel they are being violated... not just complaining about it in public and hoping LaF's heart will grow 3 sizes on christmas eve or something...

ya.... well was why I initially said you need 4.
2 commies for early on, 2 techers for afterward. Using two will deter the first people from hitting you in the first place... and those who do can be retalled.

h4 outlined the exact same thoughts in his post above with a much better explanation, so take a look at his post if you all didn't already.

people are saying LaF are being bullies... well, we've just told everyone one of the ways to establish tag protection with relatively minimal effort :p

It starts with a few countries, but over time building retal capabilities and tag protection just becomes an inherent part of the alliance and it isn't an issue anymore

you can still drop land....

you just can't grab on 1k acres and drop what you gain after every hit like you used to.

It's really not a major change at all.... and for someone suiciding from a mature country (like someone in ely would be), it's no issue at all

H4's example is pretty much perfect.

Commies early for early deterrence, techers (can be all X) that get online to provide deterrent later on... then once the stocking stage comes, you can always dump stock to make retals

and yes, we did not nerf stock stealing at all....

oh, well I have no clue then....
ask "me", perhaps? :p

try posting again and see if it works?
I don't think it would be too big for the db field...

I am more committed to the game than LaF... but this is a thread about LaF and Ely.... if you want me game commentary, go over to the game commentary thread :p

What I'm promoting here is that the idea that tag protection comes from within. It is not the responsibility of other alliances to provide your alliance tag protection, it is yours to achieve it.

I've always thought of "Alliance" as the "Major Leagues" of Earth. The most serious players, leaders and alliances play this server and they play for keeps. I'd rather see people elevate there game on this server rather than force serious players to curb the way they want to play. It's not like there aren't options for people like Ely -- LaF even extended the olive branch.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... 3 or 4 countries can achieve basic tag protection against LaF without a pact.... I'm happy to give out the jist of how to achieve that, as it's not overly complex :) :p


But anyways, I wish people wouldn't automatically jump on the "Pang agrees with LaF? THE SKY IS FALLING!!" bandwagon, it's getting kind of old and annoying...

7) Organized wars!


great list :p

oh man... i have so many things to disagree with in Popcorn's post....

1) Most suiciders on LaF are not those who we have hit. Most are people who have hatred for other reasons, usually political. I wish we would only have people who we farmed suiciding us -- that would be awesome!

2) It's a war game... you're saying it's wrong of us to take land, but ok for people to suicide. We're saying it's ok for to take some land, but we expect to get suiciders sometimes if we do. Who sounds more unreasonable? :p

3) LaF does not kill alliances for retalling hits. LaF kills them when they start attacking OTHER players who were not involved in the hits, or when special attacks start happening. I cannot think of a SINGLE time that LaF has ever gone to war with an alliance over 1:1 retals.

4) Land has to come from somewhere... no one's trying to bully anyone, people are just hungry for resources. War alliances should start selling land to LaF early in the set for the promise of aid later when they fight! :p

well I'm not saying that the 4 countries will be able to compete for netting titles with other clans.... but it's the first step towards a positive playing experience... achieving your own tag protection

it's like securing your own airspace in war :p
you basically need it to do anything of consequence at all

I'd definitely wager that 4, or maybe even 3 countries could make themselves not worth it to grab

But I think that's part of the problem with what all the LaF haters are saying....
LaF's not trying to target and overwhelm Ely. There is no organized policy to target Ely with grabs.

The reason people are hitting them is that they think Ely can't retal, not that we can overwhelm them by farming them. That would basically be a war-time move, not netting.

You only need 4 countries to be able to keep LaF from grabbing your tag effectively, it's not super hard to do :p

That's all very true. The problems of "LaF farming everything" is more a problem in the 'targeted' alliances in terms of planning, ability to inspire people to play well, etc.

People talk all the time about how the players left e2025 over the years, but more than players the leaders started quitting after being frustrated for a variety of reasons. There are only a few alliances that have active leadership that was around during Earth's heyday.

One of the reasons LaF is able to continually perform so high is because the knowledge was passed down through the generations, and also because quite a few of those old leaders are still active in LaF :p

As we keep saying, running a tag that can deter retals is an important part of this server. Especially if you're willing to reject pacts. Maintaining retal capacity, or at least the capacity to make grabbing non-worthwhile isn't super hard, so when tags aren't achieving it that's usually the clan's leadership's fault, not LaF's.

You can't blame LaF for this problem -- there were multiple solutions for Ely to avoided being grabbed by LaFfers, they decided not to do any of them... why is LaF the villain? Why is there a villain at all anyways?

This reminds me of US politics :p
Shotgun Democrats for LaF (less crazy)

What's the deal with homework? It's not like you're working on your home...

Pang is ranked too high.

I don't know why TGD is making the argument about PDM...

they've started to rise to the challenge and start running better countries, which is what we want to see.

Ely's been in their own tailspin for several years -- ever since their IX wars, so don't blame LaF for the decline of alliances which were already on the decline.

I believe this is being worked out in private...

one member going off the handle != an alliance-backed war effort

this note is mainly for the pundits... the FR team will work with ely to solve this :)

http://www.lafamiglia.org

but ya, wrong server :p

no, diez is a lying liar

LaF's the best right now... has been for arguably a year or two

I believe qz writes them professionally right now at his job :p
Likely far more effort for his app he's doing compared to what it would take to make the game work on an iphone :)

I also have some other ideas for apps that would appeal to smartphone users on the alliance server as well :)

confirmed.
Ziva is better.... although Kate had some good plotlines around her...

what about tony and ziva? that will kill the show.

ya, I don't like the godaddy addons... so I never ever get them :p

so useless :p

i wrote the war bot... and it includes anti-forgotten measures

also anti-torment measures as well!

true story! top 250 is what I always shoot for!

and no one's killed me since 2007 :p

yes, I've run multiple countries...


...one at a time though ;)

those were what we had before, but we're looking for a page which is keyword rich and explains the game to draw the user in to want to play and learn more

not me... I don't even try at the game anymore

I run spy countries and kill team countries to help keep the other laffers safe :p

this should be fixed btw

nah, it's an election year now so bailout time is over

ya, if EE was in the states, we'd have gotten a bailout and we'd be golden!

it's not just for the game info page either! there's lots more needed!

we just need more content in general!
We need wiki pages built, we should start getting players to write blog posts about ingame stuff (politics, etc) and they can be published in a special area of the blog....

that's the best area where dedicated players can make a difference! Especially SEO focused folks... write some keyword rich info blurbs about the game, the concepts, alliances, whatever! :p

ya, I made a post asking for some help creating an "Game Info" page that I was expecting to make keyword rich, but no one really took it all that seriously, if I remember correctly, so nothing got done. The staff hasn't had time to write the content for one, so we're really only optimized for keywords about browser games and Earth Empires keywords. And even then, to be able to challenge for the kinds of search terms we want to target, we need to get our links up a bit, as qz noted. We're positioned well based on the type of game/community we currently have, but we aren't optimized for the marketing phase yet. Getting the content worked up is the next step in this area :)

We've not trying to work on each piece simultaneously, it's about making things sequentially so that each piece works together. The links will come from reviews and listings on game sites and we'll want reviews and reception to be positive, so we better make sure the site is finished first :p

But in the short term SEO front, we are LOW ON CONTENT!
We need content for the wiki and content for the public site. If you think you are able to help with us, please, let us know. We've put out several calls for help with copywriting and it seems to always end up with me and Slagpit sitting in the chat at like 1 AM talking about content :p