wow, those guys from tehclub->umonks->ska sure did own.

my netting ranks =p
1.ska
2.tehclub
3.laf
4.umonks
5.dbd
6.evo
7.monsters
8.omega
9.insert your tag here
10.or here

ska/theclub, only ever had alot of t10's when they had laffers taking those t10's, once laffers played in laf again, they were just small alliances that could take anw due to their size, while being completely incapable of warring.

monks was the same except they never had alot of players in the t10 to begin with.

If you are going to talk about Monks and the club being amoung the all time great netgaining alliances, then you need to talk about other first. Avengers, Star League, and probably others I can't think of right now would have to come higher on the list.

LaF and Evo I have no issues with. LaF is a no brainer and I played in Evo so I know first hand how dedicated to the game they are both warring and netting. However NA? Really? How do you rank an alliance #2 when they are known for FAing countries into the top 10 and a once every set cheating scandal? They can play the game but they brought over a little too much of the FFA mind set to really consider anything they do 100% legit.

Also I remember the one reset Helmet decided SoF were going to net. It was actually very impressive. While the current version may not live up to the past glory SoF are still a consideration in any all time discussion. As should be MD even though they are long gone. Omega and LCN get points for being solid long term. They never dominated but it takes true talent to always finish 11th no matter what ;) SoL and TIE are both jeckle and hyde types they can be on top one reset and 3 resets later not even be a consideration. Monsters are just so good everyone forgets about them :p

And here is where I will put my own alliance. as you can see from the lists The Fist can net when we really want to and we have always been scrappers. We don't always win, but we do enough and even when we lose we keep going until the bitter end. Are we a great all time alliance? Probably not but I have been playing for almost 11 years now and even when we were absent from the game as The Fist we have always found ourselves playing in the same alliance you can not knock that type of loyalty and dedication to anything.

WRT to this game not having exact formulae:

Netting formula are damned close to exact. You can run a 100 turn cash start and come out with every number *EXACTLY* the same as earth, with the exception of PCI which 1 turn out of 10 will be off by 0.01 but it will promptly fix itself the next turn.

The tech formula for non-military non-medical is within <0.25% i'd guess; military is within maybe 0.3-0.5%; medical tech is kindof iffy maybe within 0.75% or something

Warring formulae: we consulted SOL to make sure our formulae were good, and we tested them individually.

All the spying formulae (other than bioterror) were exact on their *results*; the actual spy success we had no clue, so martian+slagpit came up with one that was supposed to be pretty close... it is obviously a little off in the middle, but the ends work heh. and maybe mehul had more randomness

All the attacking stuff was pretty damned close to accurate; we even had the 1/10th 1/8th etc DR stuff in ('till we removed it, to the benefit of warrers). We actually discovered a few things that we (&others) didn't know about the attacking formula in Earth2025 during testing. We (slagpit mainly) worked out a number of formulae people had never considered that we needed to then implement.



Granted we've changed a few things, but for the most part it's pretty damned close. And yes we consulted all the major alliances' strat guys for their formulae to make sure we didn't miss anything.



WRT rankings; if somebody can provide me with a good measure of how you would rank warring clans (even if it's incredibly complicated ;) then please let me know :)

heh, i call bullfluff on you there ss =p
i was a leader in all of them. a few laf guys played in ska but most of the t10s were..from ska.

nobody from laf was in tehclub. nice you trying to claim tehclubs awesomeness as a laf accomplishment ...poser =p

monks well, yea seeing as laf and umonks shared some members then sure. i'll give ya that one. if you really want to go there lol


sl and titans were ok but didn't have as many of my friends in them =)

Either you have no idea who laffers are, or i really doubt you played in those alliances with your eyes open.

ska and theclub hardly had a top tier netgainer between them, raheel was the closest thing for the club, and ska... loopy? if you call him top tier you dont know how to netgain.

dude, i rarely open my eyes.

and yet still lots of t10s and a some 1sts .without any top tier netgainer..with raheel being the closest according to you i might add.

ska and theclub were two entirely different groups. with me and raheel, maybe qz as being in both?

what made tehclub so great was the people that joined the planned 3 resets. No, they weren't "top tier netgainers" (only laf players are top tier in your mind it seems anyway =p) but DU and zeus's tag among others that won anw 3 sets in a row without dropping members or any other bullfluff and did exactly what we set out to do.

laf is good but when we played, we beat you guys in both tags hence why i ranked both ahead of you..in MY rankings lol . based on head to head competition.

Im not going to go into the good netter thing here. But ska,club, umonks dont deserve to be on the best netter list. Neither of them have been around long enough at all. I personally rate omega and evo higher.

if you're putting up ska and theclub, then geno would be up there too.... :p

qz already did a fairly good job, but it should be pointed out that the spy success formula was developed from scratch.

As for war formulas, stuff like the spy result ones are kind of trivial to find. Someone from SOL was the most helpful out of anyone and pointed out a few odds and ends that we didn't have. If you're curious about what formulas aren't exact and what we found difficult to find, here are a few examples:

-How exactly did readiness work under 70%?
-What was the precise probability of a "1/2 mehul hit" happening?
-if country A bounces an attack on country B, what is the exact distribution of B's military losses?

Nuk, another measurement that old earth used to keep track of was attack and defense winning percentages, tho it was never listed in a rankings form. Nonetheless, it was tracked by teh game. Not done so now.

A lot of clans, both past and present, have shunned the game's ranking system for ignoring their achievements in warring and other areas and have been forced to develop their own rankings of themselves and others.

Those self-defined rankings developed into what our third party sites use today(even evo's) and have been what's kept this game going over the years. You can't say that earth would have lasted as long without the efforts put in by the former powerhouses in alliance hosting like gamerstown and earth stats. Netgaining ranks just aren't enough. If this game wants to grow it should seriously consider more ways of actively ranking alliances as well as netting.

I will end my rant with the statement that you shouldn't have bothered with these rankings if you only believe in the rankings that the game keeps, because in the game's eye, rankings are only for a reset and that alone. The game does not track all-time rankings otherwise you wouldn't have had to compile them yourself.

Qz, quote link doesn't work on my phone, so please forgive me.

As for war related rankings, I've seen the suggestion to allow clans to formally declare war on another clan ingame, like a country would against another but a clan as a whole, many times. This method would open the door for all sorts of game improvements, already mentioned so i wont go into vivid detail, but it would really open the door to warring alliances wishing to be ranked for their ability by giving the game an exact time frame and for who is at war and to use some form of point based system to accurately rank war.

Could go down the lines of issuing points or parts thereof to both attacker and defender on a per hit basis, taking into account different vars like networth difference, oversend, etc, Even reward stonewallers.

The possibilities are really limitless, with the game knowing there is a war goin on, it actually makes it a lot easier to rank, no matter what equation or point method the game developers come up with.


Tho i think we need a lot more than just clan related war rankings. Could do with some more individual rankings as well other than scores. Not just for warring, but even things like best land grabber(not just biggest grab but consistency and total acres gained) and other things. Could even make them weekly as well as setwise and give the category winner some form of bonus the next week while making their points count as half to give others a chance to win it.
Might not make much sense from typin on my phone, but this game really needs more rankings ingame and giving bonuses for high standings would make it more competitive.

Thanks for listening and all that the developers have done so far.

This game has always been more than just netgaining to so many of its users, i think its time to recognise that and some methods aren't really that difficult to implement.

Think i'm done now :)

I never would have imagined imag were at all interested in rankings of any sort!

Out of interest...how do you rank warring? civs killed? hits?
Those are good measures...but arent definitive:(

If you don't war and prove you're good at it, you don't have much political clout. The wierd thing is that the netters seem to be winning now O_O

Although the game seems to be leaning more towards netgainers.

Nah. They are trying, the developers are mainly netgainers so will obviously have some great ideas for netgaining upgrades but i don't think they're getting a huge deal of constructive criticism of lack of other things. So, the few things they have done are much more than mehul ever did.

Just need you to stop whining and provide methods of allowing both netting and warring to coexist better than present.

What zarcon said :) we are trying to enhance both experiences (see our efforts in FFA for example, with the main page) but it's somewhat difficult sometimes when we get more criticism and lashing out from the warmonger side every time we do changes (even if they benefit them!) =/

though, of course, as zarcon said, being a netter most of my earth career, i had more than a few good ideas already sitting in my brain for years before we started on this game. Warring ideas, the main one I want to do is a formal declaration of war with stats tracking as has been mentioned here, but with some other advantages &etc; but the problem with doing that is not overpowering the FS; the problem with adjusting warring is that it's not an "equal" competition like netgaining; if we make bus/res stronger, great, that's equal for all netters; if we make say Uber-CM's or something, that *TENDS* to benefit the side with the FS; and there is already alot of talk about how the FS is too powerful already. So it's a touch more difficult to balance these things out....

I still think there should be an "X" server where there are rotating rules. Would be awesome.

tbh the only war on ee that wasnt decided by overwhelming numbers reguardless of war performance was collab's fs on sol.

What's so overwhelming about the numbers in iMag + SOL vs. Omega + LCN?

iMag + SOL outnumber the enemy by about 20 countries yet are losing... I'd chalk that down to war performance on the part of LCN and Omega (especially Omega)

doesnt LCN have more members then Imag? and got the FS on imag as well thus that war was already over

do a joint fs with sol + imag vs lcn and omega and i msure it will be a lot more entertaining

LOL those are all very old rankings, who cares to be honest? :)

GO DBD!

Other than Hash and Rockman who was from Laf in SKA? I think Hash got one top ten with us and Rockman I'm not sure got any. Mikers, loopy, trep, fibbo otoh all got multiple top tens I'm pretty sure and there are others I'm probs forgetting

No, it's clearly because imag is fighting SOL. SOL is so outnumbered!

i thought half of SKA was ex-REDers

HAN!!!

nope just 2-3 guys.

Right but you're making it seem like LCN wasn't affected by their war (iMag is not much smaller than LCN) and you're ignoring the fact that SOL had a clean FS on LCN (which, no offense to SOL because they're a very good alliance, was very weak)

It's definitely not a case of "LCN and Omega are so much bigger"

You don't even have enough merit to troll.

So Soviet, are you planning on getting any other clans killed this set?

What I think is more pathetic is that you actually came into this expecting to win, as shown by SOL's declaration on both iMag and LCN (now you're doing kill runs together)

Logic fail #2.

#201

iMag fail #1,000,000

Seriously I have no idea why you insist you're at war with SOL.

It just makes you look even more retarded.

I farmed an soler

Seriously, I have no idea why you insist that we're running kill runs together, nor why you think that I insist that we're at war with SoL, nor why I should care about a trolls pathetic attempt at an insult.

iMag is teh win.

I think its more pathetic that you imagined this set playing out like this:

Fist, fearing that after a failed attempt at fighting back, joins LCN in a joint war to fight an outnumbered iMag with the expectations that after farming iMag into the ground, iMag will simply give up and sign a multiset uNAP with both LCN and Fist. LCN and Fist would then be able to net free from hostilities and thus have a nice netting set with lots of land and ultimately top networth countries.

WRONG.

I do give you (LCN, mostly) credit for this sets activities. This will prob be one of the only sets in iMags history that we will end with originals. Congratz.

But I have to wonder why Fist demerged in the middle of a war. One can only speculate that LCN has figured out they are pretty much adding fuel to the fire, and they're going to get burned with you in their ranks. I wouldn't blame them though, you guys are pretty retarded when it comes to this game (re: Fist's inability to use millions in FA packages to fight back last set)

Do you honestly believe that? :P

lol@Soviet claiming victory.

lololololol


worst alliance leader ever :D

I'm just going to repost this and leave

i think MD, or LCN would be higher then evo.


I mean MD dominated ingame for like 3 years straight, lcn had a pretty long streak of kicking ass as well.

SoF? Rage? Arrow? RoCK?


none of those alliances deserve to be up there? bah alliance rankings suck

these are all alliances still around OGT