Derrick- I play all video games alone. I don't play NBA on intrawebs. Sid meters all offline. Heck I play campaign mode for 3rd person shooters. We are all here to chat.
That's why I didn't play while forum banned.

I agree with most of what you're saying Derrick. Here is what I'm curious your opinion on though.


You cite that being able to build with zero defense is incredibly lame. That's the problem with Clan GDI, you don't even need defense anymore. You literally can just play farmville and do nothing.

I agree, completely.


However - isn't that kind of what we've had for awhile now for half the server? My whole saga on Alliance got started when I attacked players who had, basically, zero defense. And then I was murdered for it, which cool, whatever. But due to the dwindling player base, we have come to a point where Tmac and his crew (and some others) literally have nothing to fear in terms of people hitting them, because they know 100%, that if they get hit, their attack dogs will kill the enemy over and over and over, for a year plus? Eternity?


And you might say to me 'well yea, but that's why politics is important, right?' And I'd agree with that statement, if we had politics actually happening. But I don't think we do, cause there are 47 players. And 30 of them hate the other 17, period. The sides aren't changing. The war isn't becoming an even war. New players aren't coming to the game to mix it up, force EVO and other empty defense netters to actually consider defense, cause each set they don't know who the enemy might be.


All clan GDI did, in my estimation, is give the other half of the server the same virtual guarantees of not being attacked, that the first half has had.


And yes, I know that Evo could be attacked. And that any server a suicider could do their thing. But generally that doesn't happen. And when it does, the suicider (me, for instance) pays an extreme price. Which discourages anyone from ever doing that again.



I don't think clan GDI is actually a good thing for the game. But I also don't think the current state of the player bases stances toward each other is good either. I think it creates an incredibly unhealthy environment.


If I were in charge, I'd split alliances up into smaller groups. And I'd enforce strict no cooperation rules outside that alliance. I think the server would be soooo much more fun if you had alliances of 7 or 8 people, but we had 10 legit alliances that were either going to war, or net. And we knew none of those alliances were going to cooperate with others.



But I digress. I'm curious your thoughts, Derrick.

Those are bad examples. In all of them the computer plays back. I don't sit there for nba playing practice. Sid meirs I'd lose a city for not defending it (I always leave Philadelphia undefended just for you) amd in Tom clancy wildlands I don't aim at a target, but get shot at and killed (often)

But that's the cost to the clan running 0-def too, they had to use turns and resources which could have been used for netting to stop you from hitting them, or you could hit them again and do more damage. A lot of clans used to have policing or retal teams which were set up purely to kill off suiciders or maximise the effectiveness of a retal to protect those who wanted to net

With clanGDI It's like playing snakes and ladders but with no snakes or ladders, you're all rolling a dice just to get to the end with no risk or reward. If there's 15 people in a clan all gunning for a top 10 finish you'd secretly want an external element to allow you to get into the top 10.



That's what Teams server is for

Steeps - I think my point is that even without Clan GDI we are playing snakes and ladders, without snakes and ladders, cause there are very few snakes left, and even fewer ladders.

Using a more extreme example.

Let's say there are 9 people left in the game. 3 of them are netters, 4 of them are a war clan that protects the netters, and 2 of them do their own thing, but might want to attack the netters.

It's the same thing. The 2 people can't do anything. The 4 people in the war clan have fun killing the 2 people over and over. And the three netters can run defenseless.


That's basically what we have now, except a few more people.



Teams server doesn't actually enforce the teams rule. Literally, that is the basis of my existence and The Resistance. It was the very first thing I made a stink about.


All teams really does is takes the people in alliance, and separates them into 4 or 5 tags, but they all still cooperate. So it's not really any different.

Y’all know I’m not rude or disrespectful but JFC THESE NOVELS YOU ALL WRITE. My aching ass!

Guys. Go outside and play. Set the phone down and go. But be home for dinner! And don’t talk to strangers driving vans.

(Yes, I’m being sarcastic and love most of y’all and not coming from a bad place 🥰)

I'm entertained, fk off Doug :P

Probably get better responses here. Thoughts?

Hmmmm. Idk BH. While wars get contentious, we were at this exact point ~6 years ago when LaF was getting killed by a large contingent of players. Peace took I think 6 sets instead of the 3 this war, but LaF had peace for like 5 years after. While this one seems particularly bad, and that people all hate each other, I find it hard to believe LaF wouldn't get peace eventually. Traditionally they do. I also think peace would have held if not for Clan GDI this set. I think it reignited the fires. Thinking the war is never-ending is I think just your lack of experience, as all other wars eventually ended. Also, the warclans have rivalries against each other that you haven't really seen yet. SoL and Mercs, for example, are traditionally enemies. It's almost amazing they cooperated for 3 whole sets, and with the spy attacks against LaF, you can see they have differing opinions and are searching for different outcomes. I think it being the same 30 v 17 every set is just your experience in the 3 sets you've been here. It literally was peaceful 6 months ago.

In short, I agree that both the netting and war metas were both subpar and created an unhealthy environment, but when Clan GDI was originally suggested years ago, members explained AND agreed from the netters to the wardogs about how to execute it. Instead we executed a incomplete version that seems incredibly tone-deaf to players requests. And in combination with a bot increase on the market, it made only one strat really viable for winning.

Not only is that poor form in terms of strategy balance making 1 strat significantly better than the others, it also removed the political theater that could also create parity.

I just don't think a PvE server with only 1 viable strat which requires several dozen bot hits per day on some output from a bot that tells you who to hit for effeciency really makes sense or sounds fun or even requires much skill.

Also, for explanation purposes. Let's be very clear about something:

The players, myself included, suggested Clan GDI as an improvement to the game to the admins, not the other way around. We were hyper specific about how to execute it in a way to not only eliminate things like blindside wars, long wars, etc. But also create parity among the leaderboards/strats.

Instead of listening to the requests of the players, people who haven't run countries in decades made changes that hurt the game and called it "Clan GDI."

I find it offensive even to take our idea, bastardize the hell out of it, and call it what we did. This isn't the Clan GDI we suggested, nor is it even close.

What we've done is completely close the door on the war meta which over half of the server plays within, while simultaneously eliminating strategy parity with bot increases, and created a spy attack meta where people don't even know who the hell to attack. It's just....dumb, and to me hurts the netting meta just as much as war.

A change was warranted, but one this tone-deaf to the members has the effect of ruining the game altogether. From the market, to the strategy parity, to netting, to, of course, war.

I think I agree with all you've said there, Derrick.

And it probably is true that my lack of experience (literally) biases my opinions in a way that might not be fully reflective of the actual landscape with which I exist.

I also think it's odd that QZ made major changes, and then hasn't been back to defend/explain/troubleshoot these changes. With a player base this small, you'd think the dev team would HAVE to communicate openly with it's playerbase.

I will say though, I don't think the constant attacks on devs/mods/LaF are doing anybody any favors in terms of getting actual answers, or generating a helpful discussion.

From the get go, this thread has been 'LaF/Gerd, you guys suck for making QZ do this', but typically in much more aggressive tones. This game isn't making anyone any money. Why would QZ want to come back and deal with this fluff, when this is how half the community reacts to him?

I think people need to take a step back and act as a united player base, where we stop trashing each other constantly, and instead come together and talk like adults.

To all the azz-kissers that politic for game changes, primarily those that think they speak for all players, who actually think their changes are better for the game, who think they can increase the number of players, I ask you.....
How is that going so far?????

All of these dumb-shiat ideas are killing this game as seen over the years of great, new ideas and then you get bholes that can't see past their holes to see the total history of this game.
Until a Game Poll is created to get all players opinions, PRIOR to changes, we will continue to see the opinions of the few continue to run out the many players as seen over the years.
Sure, everyone (and I stress everyone) has their opinions and you know what they say about opinions......"some stink".

The BIGGEST BS that I have seen on AT, to quote, was "The players, myself included, suggested Clan GDI as an improvement to the game to the admins."

The admins should understand that these "players" are a game minority that sit around thinking of dumb shiat vs. others that have a life and just want to play a game..... no discord, whatsapp, IRC, mod rooms and such...just want to log in and play a frickin' game.

Just my opinion but, I am not EVER going to pay-to-play this game when it is not the same game I signed up for years ago.

Yeah, I agree completely. And while there will always be people who want it just to go back to the old ways (which I might add at this point, had more strategy parity and a more robust political landscape. There's a very good argument for it imo), I think development in general is great especially when you consider there's often half decade periods in this game where it's all but ignored by admins.

But I do think a large part of the toxicity directed at LaF is purely timing. It's hard not to look at this change and see it as mostly reactionary to coddle LaF rather than well thought out, good change for the community. It kinda looks and quacks like a duck, nah mean?

It's a mallard!

I am not a fan of the clan gdi, it hurts an alliances ability to defend itself. Ifm if you need to kill someone you can't if your in it or if they are. You can go crazy and op of the heck out of people, destroying their buildings, stealing oil and wrecking havoc in other ways but you can't hit them back.

I'm not sure why anyone would be in favor of this.

You're missing the point. Gerdler has qz on speed dial and is putting pressure on him as we speak to remove the spy ops too.

Oh shoot, the way you put it, I really like that idea. Now I can suicide Tmac and not get killed within 7 minutes?!?!? Maybe I should rejoin the alliance server!

Guess Gerd's politicking game is way better than yours, Chevs. Step yo game up.

I don’t politik. I play the hand I’m dealt and me just being here is enough to make grown men seethe.

Also everything I say in private I’m willing to say in public. Which is more than I can say about the weasels that only politik (in soiled cum stained undies) in backgroom discords

You know, I saw QZ say this stuff was talked about in discord, but I don't see where. I also messaged him there and he didn't respond to me.

Do only certain people have access to where this was being discussed? And if so, who and why?

LOL. are you new or trolling?

yes.



cause you ain’t in LaF you absolute r*tard. Now I’m convinced you’re trolling

Is discord like the new irc of old?

fluff

If im in clan gdi i don't need country.. gdi is going to go bankrupt :(

As for the posts in regards to: how our criticism should at least be constructive, the viability of other strategies, and the mentioning of what other games got compared to this game, I agree with BlackHole and DerrickICN.

BlackHole, I do not think the growth of the playerbase will improve anything. Even if we somehow get many players playing, they aren't going to stick around long because of the problems with this game that exists even during the old days.

Other issues:

1. Recovering from the attacks is too expensive, turns and resources wise.
2. There are no compensation after winning the war. Generally, participating in a clan war is an automatic lose. Even after winning, they will not be able to finish in top 10.
3. Short of forgiveness, one can't settle a dispute in the game in a timely fashion that doesn't involve war, for example, aiding cash to the other team as reparation.

See: https://www.earthempires.com/...-for-a-team-51898#1014237

The game should certainly be more than that.

I do not imagine for many people that a game like this would be fun if all it takes is a few attacks and then getting denied the chance of winning. Yes, there are games where losing is easy, but it is also easy to start a new game. At EE, one would have to wait weeks for a new round to start.


That'd be nice, so then I can bother Gerdler to speed dial qzjul up to get this bug fixed, LOL: https://www.earthempires.com/...ng-ops-51960?t=1688500158

I find it incredibly interesting that multiple PDM members have now come out against the changes. It's not just the wardogs. It's virtually everyone outside of LaF.

My main question that hasn't been answered by anyone but chevs is still "where was this discussed and why was only LaF's opinion considered?"

I feel like it would help reign in some of contentiousness and finger pointing to just be honest about where and how this was discussed, and who was invited to that party.

Just be honest, y'all. What could it hurt? Galleri? Prime? Were you guys there? Can we know who else was? If it was just you guys in the room, then it's far more indicative of a problem with admin than a problem with LaF. Especially when you consider that literally everyone outside of LaF opposes the changes. A little transparency here would be helpful.

Can a few more of us Patrons be invited on the merits of actually giving a fluff about the game and donating to it? Some of us don't mind the mechanic and just believe it needs to be fixed in such a way to make it not complete garbage.

Before gains bug post got taken down it had stated that they (laf) tested it in alphaffa. Now if this was before it was rolled out or after it was rolled out I do not know. Reading that post made me seem like they had advanced knowledge of it.

Man. I want to be wrong about this being ridiculously biased. How do people in LaF not see this as a net negative that only 350k try hard bot farming FFOs can win, and they are presented with literally no market or political challenges. That literally can't be fun...

The question isn't what LaF guys find as fun, that's obvious for everyone to see. Try hard bot farming FFO is probably one of the most fun iterations of netgaining the game has ever had, and quite technically difficult to do correctly.

Not that difficult, that BOMB country whoever it was last set broke the record (by a lot) on the first try.


Derrick you are soooooo close to accepting the reality that this game is catered to like 3-5 people to the detriment of the other 80 or so…and if that’s what they find fun, the rest of you paying patrons can suck a lemon

As a person who has won multiple sets as FFO from FFA to Team, I disagree totally. It's not difficult at all and the lack of parity between strats that it's the only one that can win is incredibly boring and predictable. Team is literally more fun because any strat can win. If try hard bot farming to oil destock on the only one strat that works is fun for you, you clearly recently came back and havent done it 100 times over. Strats like demo reseller and MBR require way more skill, but aren't viable here. I'd rather skill won and not committment to bot farming. Again, what's the point in playing if you already know who's gonna win?

And also, bot farming with a bot that tells you who to hit and what to hit with, to a hybrid destock....like the most "skilled" version of that strat takes less skill than running a single day as MBR. It's just a boring land race with very little skill required.

I'm not just some wardog homie. I'm top 20 in best 3 on multiple servers. I'm likely a better netter than most players in LaF. And I know how easy FFO is.

TC is an autist moron. This is a solid post.

Any discussions on the recent topic/game change happened without my knowledge. I can only confirm what I know - that if someone stated it happened on discord, it did not happen in any actual "channel" room on the EE discord. I cannot speak for Galleri. Honestly, I feel like you already have your assumptions how this preceded. I found out the same way as the rest of you.

Yeah it was just the OP where QZ says:

I am making an assumption. I'm reading what he said and assuming a discussion on discord happened. All I see tho is one post where he asks people to test it, and maybe 16 hours later where he posts the change. Was for sure assuming there was more discussion with that.

...maybe even forgive me for assuming there was. I did assume there was more thought and conversation that went into than that. Honestly, it's bizarre there wasn't lol. You'd think a massive change like this that essentially ends PvP play and politics wouldda been more....idk....discussed lol. My bad.

For context, here's apparently the entire discussion on discord from asking people to test to its implementation (on Father's Day):

https://ibb.co/jrjRNRD
https://ibb.co/7478PPP

Doesn't even seem like anyone even was able to login to test it lol.

Don't look at me like I'm crazy for assuming there was a longer discussion somewhere lol

I'm not saying discussions weren't had. I was just saying where the location they didnt seem to happen and that I wasn't included if there was one of sorts. You can also have private messages on discord, btw, same as IRC. I'm not saying that's what he meant, just pointing out it still could have happened.

I'm not criticizing your assumptions, by the way.

I hate it when Chevs is right. *sigh*

Buch 2024 He can clean the EE swamp

It sounds like he just picked up Pangs clan gdi branch created years ago and pushed it to the live game.

I think it could be made in a way that adds more depth to the game. But as it is, it just limits to the point of almost a single-player game.

It needed more thought and work before it went live, IMO.

Not my game. I ain’t even playing, just watching to see how this plays out.

I know some of you are 60+, and stuck in your ways, but why is this acceptable?

I'll be the first to admit I've thrown around some mean insults on these forums. And I think that's part of the whole problem here. Everyone talks about the player base dwindling, but have we ever taken a step back to realize that our community is extremely hostile and offensive toward each other. It's not a very inviting or fun place to be.


With regards to the 'autist' insult, MrFord, that insult is extremely offensive to many. You're taking the word autistic and turning it into a pejorative. It's incredibly offensive to people who do have autism, as well as the rest of the world that doesn't see those individuals and their disabilities/differences as pejoratives. I understand that calling people autists is what all the cool kids are doing nowadays, but it's actually not cool at all. It's incredibly childish. I just wanted you to be aware, in case you weren't.


That said - I won't throw stones in a glass house. I've called people quite mean things on here before. So I'm going to try to do better.

Oh come on dude be a man…Get off the internet if you don’t want to be offended. We aren’t responsible for your girly feelings and can’t be responsible to read your posts in some weird dialect similar to diaherria

It's really just projection. It's actually quite likely that I have the highest IQ of the remaining player base. Moron is essentially an adult with a mental age between 8 and 12, but I think the player base is a bit above that, more like 14-16 (lower end of high school). I totally accept that some like mrford have trouble acting beyond the abilities of a 12yo.

Yeah cmon guys. We all know antisocial personality disorder is way more prevalent in this community than autism. Look at Loughner.

Also, only about 70% of people with ASD have an intellectual disorder. Just slightly under half have normal to above avg IQ.

Meh, you can have a high iq and still be as spergy as fluff.

Do I have to? That's one ugly mug.

Maybe some Arithmomania for our OCD community too. I bet that's helping those oil destocks.

I think if it was brought to AT before being implemented in some form of poll, most netting tags would vote for it, and most war tags against it. Putting us in basically the same situation we're now. Would its implementation have been trumped because the war tags slightly out-number the netting tags in total member count? Idk about that.

Also other than some half-assed politics (and market factors, which are still in play), for most netters this has been a single-player server for years. I don't personally really miss having to sign "NAPs" with Marshal every year.

Anyone that talks about their IQ, usually is only smart in their own head.

Everyone someone talks about their IQ and how superior they are to their peers reminds me of this video:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RAlI0pbMQiM

It's easy to tell, go find out:

https://www.mensa.org/public/mensa-iq-challenge

I've done that one once a month or so ago, got a 141. By all means go for it.

I'm sorry that neither of you have circles where you're around people with true intelligence, even to the point where any people claiming it end up being bottom tier tards.