+1

this is what i want to do to anti-vaxxers

http://i.imgur.com/9WawlED.gifv

imagine the antivaxxers being the guy with the stick

LOL 3500 claims have been compensated by a settlement between parties or a decision by the Court since 1988.........................hmmm...yes u are a true idiot

My proof is that I knew the kid before those vaccines and after. I don't know what exactly caused the "autism" (or whatever you want to call it). What I do know, absolutely, positively, is that something in the vaccines triggered it. He ate bread and other gluten products before and was fine. maybe something in the vaccines triggered his body to suddenly become gluten intolerant. I don't know. But I know 100% that the vaccines caused it.

I also know that once his mother figured out it was gluten, she adjusted his medicines and diet and with a 100% gluten free diet, the kid is absolutely normal. Maybe more "autistic" kids could return to a normal life, if they were misdiagnosed and aren't actually autistic, but instead, just have a gluten intolerance.

It doesn't matter. The point is that we should have a choice.

Communism was presented with the same statement that you made...the needs of the many...Are you now saying we should convert to a fully communist society?

[CITATION NEEDED]

But seriously, lol, the scientific community as a whole would love to see some sort of citation/proof of this!

I can't wait to see the proof since you're absolutely, positively 100% sure of this!

p.s. i made the needs of the many remark above. it's by no means saying that we should convert fully to a communistic society. however there are certain parts of communism/socialism that make sense. medicare/medicaid anyone?

No, you should not have a choice. Your "choice" makes all the others who have gotten the vaccine less effective and endangers those who have no choice. Your selfishness and misinformation work against the community the rest of us seek to protect.

Don't want to vaccinate? Fine. I feel like you shouldn't benefit from any public works. That includes school. You would seek to force those who have no choice out because you think you know better than science. Selfish. Get. The. fluff. Out.

In addition you are being extremely disrespectful to parents who actually have autistic kids and I feel like you are a price of fluff because of it. Gluten does not cause autism. Nor does gluten in vaccines. Period. If you want to have an argument against vaccines your only real option is the one in a million chance of an adverse side effect. This is the same risk you take when you feed your kids peanuts or milk before you know their allergies. You want to ban those substances as well? That risk does not outweigh the reward of a safer community. Selfish.

oh juice, here's a website you can read up on vaccines/austism:

http://howdovaccinescauseautism.com/

Correlation doesn't mean causation.

Example, Since 1800, the # of pirates in the world has plummeted. In the same time period the average temperature of the earth his also risen signifcantly. Using some logic presented by some people here, this would mean that pirates were keeping the earth from warming.

http://i.imgur.com/ZvC8mHV.jpg?2


that was drawn in the 30s

idiots never change

Our schools here require shots and proof of said shots. If you fail to comply by said datr, your child is expelled

Being vaccinated is like going into war in a bullet proof vest. It's not going to prevent you from being shot, but it will increase your chance of walking away from it with a bruise and not dying on the battlefield.

The reason people as babies/children still contract these diseases even after being vaccinatrd is because immune systems are weak and developing...

So does California, but there is a "personal belief" exemption. Which basically means the requirment is waived by signing a piece of paper.

I don't normally read most threads, but reading this hits at many of the reasons that I hate people in general. As a scientist and future physician I can't help but be disgusted in how people 'interpret' science and data. Just as science doesn't prove anything, anecdotal evidence is not proof of anything either. As conceited/arrogant as it may sound, I have little reason to believe that most, if any of you idiots here, have any real practice in data interpretation or identifying causation in events, and can only conclude that every single one of you are idiots.


And lastly, to make it clear, anyone who is anti-vaccine is a complete fluffing moron and it should be federal law that they become sterilized so that they don't have children.

http://xkcd.com/552/

http://www.tylervigen.com/view_correlation?id=7

eating cheese is more dangerous than vaccines

Enshula, ha! That site is in my bookmarks.



^this^

Don't they teach this to you kids in school anymore? If not, that answers a lot.

mrford speaks truth, it's not his personal bias. I'm shocked, dismayed at the stupid in this thread.

ok, so. If I shoot you with a gun, does that mean that the bullet doesn't cause you to bleed?

If the kid was given a vaccine and within days went into a autistic state of being (and was diagnosed by doctors as being autistic), then the vaccine caused it. Period. Nothing else in his life was any different during those days than the weeks or months before. The only difference was the vaccines. If you can't see that the vaccines caused the mental state shift, then you're the idiot here. Plain and simple.

Furthermore, I never said gluten caused the "autism". I said something in the vaccines caused it. I said removing gluten from his diet caused the recovery. As far as I know, he is still diagnosed (by professional doctors with degrees) as being autistic. However, since he has no gluten in his diet, he does not present any autistic symptoms.

Please, for once, read what I wrote and understand it for what I said. Don't attempt to change the meaning to fit your own argument.

do you get that if thats true and the kid cant have vaccines then he needs the population to have a high enough rate of vaccination that diseases dont become endemic?

I simply don't believe you. Disregarding the fact that autism could have developed on it's own around the time of the vaccine, there is not scientific proof for your conclusion other than observation with no control. You claim you are 100% positive and that very fact there shows me that you clearly have not considered other possibilities. Let's throw in the fact that you keep putting autism in quotations and using terms like "as far as I know" you are simply being a jackass spreading misinformation with no proof. You are literally worse than the anti-vaxxers because you are perpetuating their fear with no proof other than a gut feeling.

You are absolutely correct. Science indeed does trump stories. So if the science proved that thiomersal ingredient (a mercury based preservative) didnt cause autism, why did the CDC make pharma's replace it with another additive than if the science proved that is fine? Why dont you tell that to the Stewarts (friends I know) whose 15 mo daughter had this problem the night immediately after getting a vaccine shot.

I will tell you why, there is one huge flaw in your statement. Because we do not know everything there is about science that is why. Science has not proved what actually causes autism. Yes the science AT THIS TIME has not found any correlation between thiomersal causing autism. Yet thousands of parents will disagree with you, including my friends.

Now I actually tend to agree with you, I really do not think that was the cause. But not because of any science research, I could give a fluff what they say as they are going to mostly be biased and more importantly we just simple are not smart enough to understand everything. If they dont even really know what causes autism, how can they say with any certaintity at all what doesnt. They cant, all they can they do is say we have been unable to FIND any correlation, that does not mean one does not exist. Or until the science has proved what actually causes autism. No the main reason I agree with you, is since the ingredient was replaced, there does not appear to be any less cases of autism.

People who blindly get or have their kids get any and all vaccinations are also idiots.

Do the research first, do not just simply take or inject any medications until you know the pro's and con's, the side affects, what it is actually supposed to do, etc.

I agree that a lot of vaccines are good and should be done, but do NOT just simply get vaccinated because everyone else is. Dr's love to prescribe medication and imho they do this far too often and readily. They also love to jump on the band-wagon with any new known disease and have far too often commonly mis-diagnosed as well. Pharmaceuticals who make these vaccines and medications are guess what, there to make money selling this crap, so dont blindly trust them either.

So do NOT be an idiot, instead make an informed and well researched choice prior to just blindly following along. Trust me, everyone is not looking out for YOUR best interests, only YOU can do that.

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/...ll-by-viera-scheibner-phd

That literally is the scientific method. Is this real life?

Nope, real life includes propaganda BS that you read, real life includes biased research and reports which like any facts can be construed to show w/e the hell you want it too.

Sorry but for me, real life means what are the long term affects. We simply do not know with the limited testing that has been done and with our limited knowledge of how life works. Sure you cant wait around 100 years of testing when an outbreak occurs, so you have to make the best most informed decision you can.

Part of this means, taking into account the whole entire vaccination life span of around 120 years. This shows that it can be affective, and it can also do just as much harm as it can good. Look at link I posted above, and you will understand what I mean.

you completely ignored my point. par for the course.

Ok how about these points.

WRONG. There are several reasons why one should not. Something that given your stated how well informed you are, I am surprised you dont know.

Fact. Like most medications, there are normally side affects associated with it. If such a side affect is harmful for you, you should NOT get vaccinated. For example if one side affect causes pneumonia and abdominal pain (like one of earlier measles vaccine), many people with certain conditions should not do it. Quite often it is recommended that people who are pregnant should not take certain medications or vaccinations due exactly to these side affects.

Fact. When certain disease is more than 90% eradicated, re-introducing the vaccine actually causes more harm than it helps. The CDC has found this out a couple of times, when trying to reintroduce certain vaccines like measles, etc.

Fact. Vaccines are made by pharmaceutical companies, and quite often do not let it be known what all the side affects of their products are. Just look up any number of law suites against some of the bigger pharmaceuticals. Do you put anything into your body foolishly without knowing what it is? As Juice already mentioned, quite often they relabel or make up new words to hide what certain ingredients are. Sorry but anyone making it difficult to know what all the ingredients actually are, should give anyone reason to wonder why and question taking such products.

Fact. Except for smallpox (and even that could be argued with the likes of monkeypox, chickenpox) can you name another vaccine that has eradicated a disease. If a vaccine can not totally eradicate the disease, than why should we bother.

Fact. Vaccines are NOT a cure, they are a temporary measure to try and deal with a certain disease until they find out what the real cause is and then come up with a solution to cure it. So I guess following your train of thought, you always should apply temp measures to a problem instead of actually FIXING the problem.

Fact. Vaccines along with anti-biotics and tons of other medications that are used as temp stop gaps, are weakening our own immune systems.
Non-fact. Which I would feel remiss in leaving out. It is debatable on whether they actually cause more harm than good. And debatable on how much our immune systems are being weakened by this. Imho that is a case by case scenario. Imho, smallpox yes, measles .. maybe (by time it was introduced it was well on the decline). Flu .. HELL NO, with exception of limited high risk, like maybe elderly etc.

However, there are several reasons why not to vaccinate. I only listed some.

More Fact quoted from a Dr.

"I had a new patient today, a 10 month old baby- the mother was totally pro vaccine, had no issues with it. I asked if she noticed any reactions, she announced – “She had the Rotavirus vaccine, the next day her poo was green and slimy, the day after she was bleeding from the anus”……it amazed me that parents are so indoctrinated to be pro vaccine they ignore massive red flags like this."

Yep no reason at all. I guess science will show there was no correlation either, at least science from research group paid for by the pharmaceutical companies to look into it.

Look, dont get me wrong, there is a time and place for vaccines. But even then YOU should do your homework first before accepting it. (Rotavirus is definitely one to look into prior to accepting). To blindly state there is never a reason to not get a vaccination is just foolish and wrong.

LMFAO.

You obviously have not researched this very much, nor even thought this through very well at all LOL.

You have a funny definition of the word fact.

Now I know you are just trolling.

Thousands of people a year were dying from the measles. Now bearly any. Yeah, why even bother. Shut the fluff up asshole.

i hereby propose to have the forum mods change hawkster and juice's (and whoever elses' dumbass i've forgotten) forum handles to 'ignant retard'

also we need to come up with a game plan so these morons can't reproduce...

Vaccines don't weaken the immune system. They strengthen it by making the immune system competent against the disease. I strongly suggest all people who are making claims that vaccines who weaken the immune system or don't work the way "we" think it does to read up on how the immune system works in general. When you're born you don't have an immune system - it needs time to develop. Babies actually rely on their mother's immune system to fight some pathogens and use their mother to help form their new one. It takes time. The human body needs to make tons of cells (ever thought about why you hear about blood cancers way more than other types of cancer? it's because blood cells are very active!) to create the immune system.

Vaccines are an especially powerful tool to help fight disease because they last a long time - you are teaching your immune system how to fight a disease. There is literally no down side. Any claims about ingredients are hog wash. I guarantee that you eat way worse crap than some of the things used to make vaccines. This is similar to the GMO nonsense people are crying about - guess what, eating a nucleic acid will not kill you!

Yea I cringed when I re-read it. I admit I did not end that argument well at all. But I am not trolling, nor does it change the fact that only one vaccine has eradicated the disease. That is the whole intent of most vaccines, to get rid of it once and for all. Because they know if it doesnt, all a vaccine will do is strengthen the disease. (You know kinda like the flu vaccine does, each strain comes back stronger some years).

"The CDC said 158,000 people die worldwide each year from measles.

The last measles death in the United States was in 2003, according to the agency. Before the country launched a widespread vaccination program in 1963, it had 450 to 500 measles deaths each year."

Yea 158 thousand is hardly any. Yea 450 in the US when the vaccine was introduced was thousands. You got those backwards. Damn mate I know you are smarter than this. So stop typing mis-information. The fact is when measles vaccine was introduced in 1963, it was at 90% of the amount of its peak level of deaths. There was a sharp and steady decline in deaths in both the US as well as the world since 1910's - 1920's.

I also noticed you completely disregarded everything else I had to say. Once again mate, I know you are smarter than I am, yet you are not showing that here. And you really need to research more.

Hmm yea let me see, do I believe you a professed scientist that can read and interpret data or do I believe expert Dr's who state the exact opposite. Sorry, I think will have to side with the expert Dr's.

if hawkster has procreated.... boy i feel sorry for his/her children :( it's gonna be rough for them growing up whilst having a dumbass for parents :(

Actually I am a bit of both - I am currently working in an MD/PhD program meaning I will be both a scientist and a physician when I finish. That said, I can also tell you that most physcians are not scientists - they are physicians. It's quite alarming how little most physcians know about science. They're usually just regurgitating some information they heard or read from somewhere else.


And yes, I am a self professed scientist because that is all I do right now (PhD portion of program). I literally do science.

Scheibner is not regurgitating, nor WHO (World Health Organization). Nor the CDC when it tried to re-introduce smallpox vaccine in 2003 and quickly found out guess what, the vaccine from prior generations had seriously weakened our immune systems in the US. They quickly had to stop as the smallpox vaccine was causing lot of serious health problems. It is funny that you are stating the exact opposite of what all they say.

As well as research like this:
Properly managed (meaning not mismanaged by the administration of antipyretics and antibiotics), having measles not only results in a life-long specific immunity to measles, but also in a life-long non-specific protection against degenerative diseases of bone and cartilage, immunoreactive diseases (such as allergies, asthma), sebaceous skin diseases and cancers. As Ronne (1985) demonstrated, not having measles with a proper rash is not desirable. It predisposes to the above diseases; and these were just the diseases that he studied. There could be other non-specific benefits from measles.

Hmm yea ok, that sounds like its not weakening it at all.

Same thing with letting your kids eat from the floor, they grow up being lot more tolerant later on in life, as opposed to ones who it must be completely dis-infected first with tons of anti-biotics.

You said it yourself, than contradicted yourself. You have to let your immune system develop. This means naturally, not by injecting some weakened strain of it into your system.

As Mr Ford said, science > your story. Science has shown time and time again how well Flu vaccines are making our immune systems so much stronger every year. Why maybe in next what 2 years or so, our immune systems should be so much stronger at fighting off the flu we shouldnt need the vaccines anymore.

Yep and they are all very healthy too. They have had some vaccines too, but not every single cotton picken one around. I feel sorry for yours, because couple generations from now, when we find out how bad our "science" screwed things up, it will be too late for them. Immune systems will not be able to fight off something as simple as asthma, let alone a real disease.

I am such a dumbass and yet not single one of you can disprove any of my facts I have stated. yep me the dumbass. *shakes his head*

as someone with asthma, fluff you :)

each new post of yours just makes me believe you're just trolling us, hawkster. nice work!

This is all I need to see to understand that you have no clue what you are talking about. You clearly don't understand what the Flu is, amd sure as fluff don't understand how vaccines work. Stop spreading your stupidity and false information to other people. You might kill them.

Shut the fluff up. Your facts arnt facts.

Do you know how most vaccines are made? Although I am not familiar with how the measles one is made specifically, I am familiar with the general technique. It usually involves injection of an attenuated pathogen (a disabled pathogen) so that an immune reaction is created but the pathogen can't do real harm due to loss of virulence. This means these people are being infected with the pathogen and this only supports your paragraph about the side benefits of exposure to pathogens. Vaccines are exposing people to pathogens so let's keep doing it :)


Also I did not contradict myself. I was merely attempting to educate in how the body develops. The reason babies can't be exposed to vaccines is because of the time it takes to make the cells. When people say to wait 6 months or a year they don't say that based on actual knowledge of an individual person's immune system. It's a guess from data that suggests it's likely safe after that point. That said, it still doesn't hurt to vaccinate when you can to expose them to as much crap as possible to make their immune system competent.

The whole "side benefit of exposure" is an entirely different topic than vaccines, and it's clear you don't understand it because if you did you would know it only supports the vaccine cause.

Yea sorry Trife, I am letting my emotions get better of me. I want to retract part of what I said. I did not mean that, yet at same time you have to admit you calling me a dumbass wasnt very great either.

Look I just cant believe how hard a concept this is to get across. Vaccines like euglaf said before ARE a great tool. But the fact is they are not the end all. Nor should you get every vaccine there is without researching and looking into it first.

Like any tool they can be overdone, just like protein is good for you, but over abundance is not. Having a vaccine for everything they cant figure out how to cure, is an over abundance. It is great for outbreaks that is killing thousands upon millions, but I have to question when they use if for things like the Flu or any other disease that is not a serious pandemic. Anti-biotics are once again a great tool, but it is used way too often. Why is that such a hard point to get across to everyone.

The flu isn't a serious pandemic because of measures taken to control it dude. You want it to be the early 1900s again?

You don't know how any if this works, clearly. You are spreading misinformation in a factual manner and there are people out there stupid enough to believe you. RE: recent measles outbreak.

You have said things like

"If we can't eradicate the disease then why bother"

And you inferred that flu shots were worthless and that asthma isn't a real disease. Listen to yourself. Not a only are you ignorant, you are an asshole.

Also, motherfluffer it is then, not than. Get a fluffing clue.

vaccines work by introducing some element of a virus into our body so that our immune system identifies it and develops a memory for that part of the virus. That in turn lets our immune system recognize the virus if it gets into our body somehow in the future. So that can't weaken our system since it isn't getting rid of anything, only giving us a memory to recognize things in the future.

Now it may be that unless our bodies are exposed to the whole virus our immune system won't have a memory response to as many different things. But some is better than none when we're talking about diseases with serious complications.

CDC has information sheets for each vaccine. If you're that worried about it read up and then get your kids vaccinated.

Hmm ok. lets see.
1) Fact: There are side affects from most vaccines.
2) Fact: CDC has stated re-introducing vaccine when disease is more than 90% eradicated causes more harm than good.
3) Fact: Vaccines are made by pharmaceutical companies.
4) Fact: Vaccines has only eradicated one disease so far.
5) Fact: Vaccines are not a cure.

So now please tell me which one of those is not a fact. Are you trying to tell me that:
1) Vaccines do NOT have any side affects.
2) CDC was lying.
3) Vaccines are not made by pharmaceuticals. So what companies are making them than?
4) What other disease has vaccines eradicated so far? Or maybe you are debating that they didnt eradicate smallpox?
5) They are a cure, because they figured out scientifically what the cause of the disease is and then applied the vaccine to fix it.

Come one Mr Ford, I have a tons of respect for you and like I said before I know you are smarter than I am, but seriously. How can you say any one of those are not facts.

As should be in order to protect the rest.

lol, 2/10 on the troll

None of your "facts" are reason enough not to get vaccinated. Vaccines were never ment to be a cure, just protection. In addition it is extremely difficult for a vaccine to "eradicate" a disease when jackasses like you are out there rationalizing not getting vaccinated.

I would say there not being a measles death since 2003 is a really good reason to get vaccinated. Apparently you dont. I got a feelong that because of dumbasses like you that stat is going to change really soon. You seem to think that your paranoia derived from fear mongering about "big pharma" and the miniscule chance for a serious side effect is jusrification enough to risk my daughters life. I take that extremely personally. So from the bottom of my heart, fluff you. Than.