I think you could say the same about the dems politically.

Al Gore won florida and Merrick Garland should be on SCOTUS. If the dems had a backbone W would have never been president and the courts would not be stacked with conservatives. The courts are the GOPs bread and butter and theyve won control of them for potentially the next 4 decades by stealing picks away from a spineless Democratic party. But all of that is irrelevant to the point here, of which GO notes in a proper manner.

That's the whole thing, regardless of who does or does not have a spine. There's seriously reason to believe that our president, our vice president and the frontrunner for president in the dems are ALL compromised by foreign corporations and entities.

Do we know that for sure? The short answer is no. There's just enough probable cause to make it worth investigating. Do i want to know for sure if they are compromised? Yes. A million times yes.

Blocking investigations and refusing subpoenas gives me more reason to believe they're guilty. Same with the dems refusal to investigate biden in china and Ukraine. But either way, even if they are 100% innocent of all crimes, I'd just like to know that for sure.

Maybe the general populace is just paranoid, but we still should want all investigations into the leader of the free world reach an end based in fact and documentation, not an end of conjecture and partisan politicking. It's important to our republic.

And you can't just want the "bad guys" investigated but say the claims against your "good guys" are baseless. You either have to want it all investigated thoroughly or you essentially want no transparency in politics which is......anti american...

The cabal is real.

Sondland has possibly blown a hole in things. He can't be described as a "never trumper", and directly implicated the pres, and possibly pence, in the situation.

To be fair, counting against him is that he changed his testimony.

But, so far, pretty much everything that every witness has said has lined up with the original whistleblowers report, which was delivered through proper channels initially.

The concept of it being "dems out to get the pres" becomes longer and longer the more stuff lines up, and the more non partisan diplomats and officials tell the story. Worse when trump supporting and picked diplomats tell the same story.

Also, if Biden did something corrupt, then yes, investigate him too. However, to my knowledge, there has been no evidence of anything illegal by Biden yet.

Lastly, I'd really like to see a deeper investigation into both Trump and Clinton's connections to Epstein.

Sounds to me that what was done is what has always been done in business and from country to country... how else to get them to do as you want. No laws broken. Matter of diplomacy. We just happen to have a law about Quid Pro Quo that the Dems are trying to use, but the real picture here is still Biden's son.

You forget the fact that when the Clinton's and Bush's did it all their political career it was ok, I'm pretty sure Pelosi did too, that huge mansion in wine country doesn't come free.

That is exactly what I'm saying. They all do it. Dems need SOMETHING to get Trump on. He will win the next election. So we do have a law he likely broke, as they all have and will continue to do. Even if he gets by with it, and he should, per his office and our being the world police and power, there has always been a Quid Pro Quo of sorts, except, it should not benefit him personally, such as in accepting gifts ...yet they do this also.
The ongoing Epstein joke is no joke. The Clintons are criminals of the murderous kind. The Bush's are certainly not clean.
Dems figure that just by making it news of any kind, less people will vote for Trump. They are wrong.

I still don't like Trump. He has become the lesser of evils.
I like no one for office.

Yup I'm with you.

https://www.zerohedge.com/...sA2h7M6TkE09r-STUT01l-s0Q

They have nothing everything they say is opinion

They would've had a bigger case if they attempted to impeach Bush/Cheney, but we all know why that didn't happen....and for those who are wondering...the deep state protects its own, left wing/right wing...doesn't matter, it's a fluffing crow.

I always wondered why the clintons allowed monica Lewinsky to live...
Trump has as much to lose from anything Epstein knew as the Clintons.

Trump has to be impeached and found guilty. If nothing else, it needs to set a clear and defined limit on how far a president can go in blatantly breaking the law and get away with it. Otherwise, you're opening the door for further misrule and abuse of power.

I always wondered why the clintons allowed monica Lewinsky to live...
Trump has as much to lose from anything Epstein knew as the Clintons.

Trump has to be impeached and found guilty. If nothing else, it needs to set a clear and defined limit on how far a president can go in blatantly breaking the law and get away with it. Otherwise, you're opening the door for further misrule and abuse of power.

There's no door to open, the flood gates got taken out in the 60s when they murdered Kennedy and pinned it on a chump that was in the wrong place at the wrong time, you are late to the corrupt state, Drow.

Koh, dude, you subscibe to too many conspiracy theories, and the biggest issue is that you give too much creedence to this all encompassing power they supposedly have, yet cant manage to fill simple gaping holes...

You really think that scrub killed Kennedy?

If I give you the opinion that they all do it, then you should only more understand the dems position. Trump wanted investigations opened against biden late in an election cycle. The same way he pushed for Clinton to get investigated late in a cycle last time. Heyyyy comey.

The dems are now investigating Trump late in an election cycle, and y'all act like its crazy. If the goal is to smear people with investigations, I think the ultimate point is that trump wrote that book.

It's at this point at least a common political smear tactic and not a low blow for either party. Since there's no respectability and dignity left in politics i think this is just the way it's done now.

Koh, looking at all the facts, yep.
The "magic bullet" for example, wasn't.

Your problem Derrick is that you're still acting like Trump has written any books. Look back on history and ask yourself if the Roman conspirators killed Julius Caesar to preserve the Republic or if the Republic was already dead before he was even born.

I mean. Ultimately I just don't believe trump is being unduly targeted by some deep state etc. He's targeted with both rhetoric and investigations as much as his opponents. It seems very congruent and ubiquitous to me.

As far as Trump being like the beginning of the downfall of our republic tho, you're absolutely correct. That's a little overkill. Lots and lots of things happened for decades to get to the point we are now.

I'm just saying investigations, even if at times unfounded, are simply a common part of partisan politics because we are so far gone from dignity and responsibility. It's a common smear tactic for both parties at best, and at worst they're all actually criminals. The investigations themselves are clearly leveraged by both parties to create an image of the other party being criminal. That's the long and short of this whole thing to me. Trump and the GOP is doing it simultaneously to the dems doing it, yet one side is crying deep state. It's confounding and stupid imo.

You're saying your government doesn't cover up fluff and release alternative facts?

Here: https://youtu.be/ZDuwWxwe1HQ

It goes without saying to me tho, that if this sorta thing is going to be the new breed of partisan politicking, that all investigations should reach a thorough and complete conclusion. Let the subpoenas fly. Let's find out who these assholes really are. I'm totally fine with that.

I don't recall it being used for political gain prior to the week before the 2016 election, but frankly i think it's part of the game now. If you're not hammering your opponents with investigations you just aren't US politicking correctly.

The impeachment inquiry itself is literally just a means to investigate, which is in line with both parties' BS investigation politicking. Had trump cooperated with subpoenas originally we probably would still just be at the point where they're investigating the fluff out of him, which again is just status quo now.

You misunderstood. To say that Julius Caesar was the beginning of the downfall of the Roman Republic is to completely ignore history. It'd be easier to argue that the Republic was long dead due to extreme political corruption long before him. His predecessors like Sulla don't pop up in a functional Republic, nor do obviously corrupt politicians like Clinton, mostly inept family lineages like bush, Nobel peace prize winning warmongers like Obama, etc, and they are probably the best of the lot considering Congress has been stack full of far worse people since basically the beginning. I'm not saying the problem is some deep state, although that may be a symptom, the problem is the political system as a whole needs to be re-evaluated and the fact that you keep thinking Trump should be impeached tells me you think there is something uniquely bad about him that is not embedded in a deeply flawed political system.

Because we are not trying to do democracy better, democracy is doing corruption and police states better.

I don't think Trump should be investigated/targeted any more/less than any other person who has been potentially involved in crimes and misdemeanors.

I'm just saying investigation politicking is a win for the republic. I hope all the Biden stuff comes out and obama staffers are indicted. I hope all this Trump stuff comes out and others are indicted.

There's something to the fact that our fall from dignity has reached such a point of low brow politics, that indeed dominos could start to fall. If Trump does get impeached, then this method of politicking could cause for more transparency as it would have proven its effect. Much the way Comey proved its effect in 2016.

While its intention is to be a character assassination tactic, it could lead to positive results in general. We're not going to overhaul anything major any time soon, but i do see it as a small victory in general information and anti-corruption. I enjoy watching them attack each other in this manner.

KoH: My government has tried to cover up all kinds of fluff.
Funnily enough, they seem to get exposed in short order though.
But please, continue wearing your foil hat and blame everything on the deep state and big pharma.
maybe big pharma owns the deep state and uses it to cover up cures for everything /eyeroll

No, corporations run the deep state, big pharma is part of it, but go ahead and pretend non of that is happening and continue being a peon.

The other day, after the aliens dropped me back off, forgetting to wipe my memory, one of them was seen wiping off one of their four fingers, the one that went in my butt, I think, anyways, seeing this, I started thinking, because I hadn't really been thinking much earlier, that somewhere when writing this post, I forgot where I was going...

Good LOL

I think I might need medication

What's the new plan for the far left once this fails? Will they blame the Senate for not following suit?

It'll be a Chinese collusion conspiracy theory, the trade deal with China will happen next summer thus propelling Trump's reelection and there after someone will pay someone to accuse the president of getting help from the Chinese to win the election, thus giving us 4 more years of fluff show.

That's probably accurate hahaha.

I don't think there's an end to the investigation warfare until it stops working. As public opinion has remained fairly constant on whether or not trump should be removed, public opinion has slowly gravitated toward people supporting the inquiry itself. While most moderates are not for removal, more and more they support the idea of doing the investigations.

It's at a minimum an effective way to politick as evidenced by Biden and Trump's poll numbers recently. If it ain't broke...

If the "public opinion" and polling was accurate, Hillary would have won by a landslide, you haven't learned much from last election cycle if you think otherwise.

zZzZzZ....

Hillary DID win the popular vote.
The way your EC works though, apart from two states, even if you only lose to the other candidate by ONE vote, you get none of the EC votes for that state.
I strongly suspect that if all states had proportionate EC vote assignment, as Nebraska and Maine do, you MIGHT have gotten a different result.

What's your point?

She was supposed to win ALL blue States

And why would I be talking about the popular vote when we all understand that the electoral college is at play, that is idiotic.

And I'm really glad California "The Stupid State" won't decide who the president will be, that state should be flushed into the Pacific ocean, the fluff those politicians do to the people of that state is disgusting, yet they keep voting scumbags into office... stupid people!

KoH: you made an argument about how "public opinion and polling" was wrong. the polling was right, as evidenced by her winning the actual vote on a person to person basis, which isn't how the EC works.

On investigation tactics, well and good. it might just cut the corruption some, because no one will want to leave behind any dirt for the "other guys" to find.
Unfortunately, politics is getting far too partisan, it's 100% all about "our side is always right and the other side will only break things". Both sides have beneficial stuff to bring to the table, and, much as trump is a piss poor, dishonest, corrupt excuse of a joke of a president, he has still done some positive stuff in office.


Also, McGahn now having to testify could also be interesting. it's another defence claim shot down, and the judge quite rightly put it that "presidents are not kings".

Keep telling yourself that 👍

it's the reality, rather than some grand conspiracy theory, which somehow manages to do all this fluff, but leaves MASSIVE traces behind, without leaving ANY of the most important and hardest to hide ones...

So you still think JFK was killed by that scrub?