Next up, expose DNC voter fraud.

Ko right again.

Actually, NO.
I wrote my first paper on this in 1968 when I first learned about it in civics class. And again when I was a sophomore in high school, another in a college course, and another when I was a regular contributor to a small newspaper. The geographical density argument is irrelevant. Trees don't get to vote, people do.
Back when I wrote those essays and op-eds this hadn't happened since 1888. But now it's happened twice in my oldest grandkids lifetimes and I would like to see us correct this obvious flaw that erodes the sense of a fair election and allows the candidates to ignore the concerns of citizens in red-locked or blue-locked states. We need to elect a President the same way we elect every other fricking politician in this country - the one with the most votes wins.
As We The People, are we not obligated to be in search of a more perfect Union? It is that quest that has given us our 27 amendments to the Constitution.

Anything less than a "one-person-one-vote, most votes wins" election seems clearly un-American, un-democratic and un-fair. We're not voting on issues here as our elected legislators do representatively. We're voting for our President.
A Presidential election is a federal election, not a state election, so if you want stupid State election laws in your state where the guy with the most votes doesn't always win the Governor's mansion keep it within your stupid state. Fight for your State's right to be stupid.

Some of the people posting here are so rabid and so emotional they spend all their time 'feeling' instead of thinking.
If you can think coherently instead of getting all feely about it, a fair election defined as an election in which the candidate with the most votes wins is a truth that is quite self-evident


The United States is a representative democratic republic. No one on this thread suggested it was a direct democracy. My initial post on this thread was a response to the comment that the democratic process worked. I am pointing out that the general election of our President is not a democratic process while every other office-deciding election in our country is. I went on to explain how this aberration causes the 'red', 'blue', and 'battleground' state scenario which effectively disenfranchises many voters who think, and rightly so, that their vote for President doesn't matter and allows candidates to focus on the concerns of the citizens in a few key counties in a few key states instead of considering the concerns of all.


Citation? What conspiracy theory nutcase website did you get that from? Do facts even matter or are you a math-denier too?
Hillary Clinton 60,981,118 votes
Donald Trump 60,350,241 votes


For the record, that is what I said in my initial post, looking to 2020. Nowhere did I suggest the 2016 result be changed. Donald Trump will be President. But if you think every person's vote should count equally then we should try to correct this as we seek a more perfect Union..

yankeeland won't start using direct voting by citizens.

https://youtu.be/58Quv42iE68

Trump and clinton are pieces of fluff. :) If you jumped on either band wagon you are a fool. If you simply chose one as to who you felt was the least horrible that is ok :)

The amazing thing is that Donald Trump in a New York Liberal who spent most of his life as a registered democrat and made his fortune by working the big-government, elitist political system. I mean this election was really between two democrats.

Can you imagine the apoplexy if a real conservative like Ted Cruz had won?

The electoral college ensures that one person gets one vote by delegating the number of seats in congress to states based on population. If you were to make it strictly popular, you would be suppressing the votes/wishes of those who do not regularly vote. Additionally, it is the states that elect the federal government because we are a REPUBLIC.

The Electoral College _mirrors_ the distribution of seats a state has in Congress, it doesn't delegate it.

A less populated state like Wyoming already has an equalizer in Federal Government. it's called the United States Senate. Wyoming has the same number of US Senators as California or New York or any other state. How much Affirmative Action do you want?

On Nov 06 2012 Trump, thinking that Mitt Romney was going to win the popular vote but lose the Electoral vote to Obama, posted to Twitter:
"The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy."

The CBS News program 60 Minutes aired an interview with President-Elect Trump in which this exchange took place:
~~~~~
Lesley Stahl: Now, for months, you were running around saying that the system is rigged, the whole thing was rigged. You tweeted once that the Electoral College is a disaster for democracy.

Donald Trump: I do.

Lesley Stahl: So do you still think it’s rigged?

Donald Trump: Well, I think the electoral co-- look, I won with the Electoral College.

Lesley Stahl: Exactly. But do you think--

Donald Trump: You know, it’s--

Lesley Stahl: --it’s rigged?

Donald Trump: Yeah, some of the election locations are. Some of the system is. I hated--

Lesley Stahl: Even though you won you’re saying that--

Donald Trump: I hated-- well, you know, I’m not going to change my mind just because I won. But I would rather see it where you went with simple votes. You know, you get 100 million votes and somebody else gets 90 million votes and you win. There’s a reason for doing this because it brings all the states into play. Electoral College and there’s something very good about that. But this is a different system. But I respect it. I do respect the system.
~~~~~

The Electors of the Electoral College are the people that really get to vote for President. They do not even have to vote the way their state voted. There's about 25 states that try to prod these Electors to vote for the popular vote winner in their state with a slap on the wrist penalty like $1k fines but that doesn't change their vote. In fact in US history there have been about 160 electors that voted in opposition to the popular vote in their state, or abstained completely.

The Federalist Papers are a collection of articles and essays written to promote the ratification of the Constitution in the late 1700's. Among many of the concerns at the time was how exactly we would choose our Presidents. There was debate as to whether the President should be chosen by a democratic vote, or instead by congressional vote.
As a compromise to win ratification, Madison and Hamilton put together the concept of State Electors, to be the actual people that voted on separate ballots for President and Vice President after the General vote was concluded.
Giving the Electors choice to vote differently than their state's result was put in place as part of the compromise, as Madison and Hamilton described in the Federalist Papers, to give stability to the office of the Presidency and prevent any potential charismatic tyrant from manipulating the will of the people.

Keep in mind the times they lived in - there were only 13 states and even at that, news could take days to get to the outer regions of the new United States. There was concern that remote areas would have uninformed voters and that conspiracy theories could run rampant by word of mouth, unchecked even in the more urban areas due to the high rate of illiteracy.
There was real reason to be apprehensive of the popular vote. The elite Founding Fathers were educated and informed, much of the citizenry was not.

Times have changed. We have access to news instantly and endless sources of it.
We can read and write.
In the 21st century, We The People should be trusted to make the choice for our President the same way we do for our Mayors and Governors. Your distance from Charleston or Boston or Philadelphia no longer clouds the availability of news and facts.
One person, one vote. Most votes wins.

Though unprecedented, we could one day be looking at Electors who, when they meet in their states on the 1st Monday after the 2nd Wednesday in December of a Presidential election year, choose a President and/or Vice President that 90% of us didn't vote for. That door is open and it needs to be closed and whether you want the Electors of the Electoral College to be forced to vote the same way their state voted (in which case all you need is a tally sheet; no actual people required) or you want to get rid of the Electoral College completely and go with one person one vote, an amendment to the Constitution would be needed.

Or we keep it the way it is, an occasionally dysfunctional relic of a compromise from the past, vulnerable to the wishes of 538 Electors that are allowed by the US Constitutional to vote however the hell they want should they decide not to follow tradition.

I find it amusing that liberals only fluff and whine when they don't get their way....

I will begin trolling after the Supreme Court position is filled.

that will kill liberalism, progressivism and socialism in most all law for decades. Enjoy!

Personally i will begin trolling after the nature destroys your country even more as there is no such thing as global warming and fossil fuels is great for you if it gives you jobs etc


:)

A big round of applause from the UK.
We have our own "losers in a democracy" who want to stay in Europe - maybe they could join the Whinny, fluff, liberal, socialist fluffs (coz they are so much alike) that will leave USA.

Well done democracy!!

And all these idiots protesting against Trump, it was the people that voted, not him!!

what do they want? - a dictatorship?

Aca

i wanna see the fun start

It isn't that big of a deal. The jet stream will bring the pollution straight to you anyways.

For all you fans of pure democracy: a lynch mob = democracy in it's purest and most dangerous form. The most votes wins. No other factors apply - no reason, no consideration of the minority voice, just force of mass. Think about those words...

Lynch mob

It's an ugly part of where human history has come from and it included pure democracy. If a horrific crime was committed and you were a stranger in the area, you could (and likely would) hang for that crime because more people were suspicious of you than weren't. Most votes, nothing more. If you want society to be ruled by 'most votes, nothing more' then be sure you know what you're going to get with that. Real democracy ends in a total lack of liberty, if not for a people, at least for a person and neither is acceptable.
To be clear, I don't care to enter the political theatrics of this thread; I don't care about anyone else's private voting life. Rather, I couldn't help but note the resounding voices crying out for something they have never cared to understand (as evidenced by the fact that they can even reach the conclusions they do).

I have stayed out of political discussions whenever possible.

I voted against Trump, I think he is a real POS, or should I say bigger POS.

But what I am very disgusted with is after preaching hatred and racism through the whole campaign, who is surprised at the hatred and racism rearing its head across the US. I understand that we have always had them, but now they have someone who won a presidential campaign by bringing that out in front of the American people as if there was nothing wrong with those inflammatory words.

I am afraid of losing the progress we have made thus far in many areas. I guess we will see.



I do think we should be "one person, one vote" and trash this electoral college bullfluff.



bonus :)

I don't believe Ruth. It was her alone that caused Pennsylvania to go red!

Seriously? You're ok with Hillary? a proven liying fluff that sold out our national security, got people killed and stole the nomination from Bernie via voter fraud?


Oh i can't wait for the answer!

Hillary was just trying to get her beauty sleep

Trump is also a proven liar. That shouldn't be a knock against Hillary :p


Like say what you want about other aspects, but to say Trump isn't a liar is factually incorrect.

Where did i say that Trump isn't a liar?

He just wanted to say factually incorrect.
That's all.

I guess so. ..

Hakuna Matata

hasa diga eebowai

No one and I mean NO ONE can get on my planet!
So there!
pffttttt

not even sovnub and mommy's little darling?

Think I came across colo's sources.

https://70news.wordpress.com/...-your-loony-petition-now/

which used this as a source https://twitter.com/...oto/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

which was inspired by http://www.usasupreme.com/...ary-not-win-popular-vote/

and here's the best part, and where I got the above from http://www.theverge.com/...lection-results-algorithm

I was better with Hillary than I was with Trump, but I would have voted for Bernie.

You are welcome. I helped push him over the top in PA!

Bernie was legit in his message, i don't agree with his economics agenda but the guy was captivating, too bad the DNC has been hijacked by George Soros, people don't realize how damaging that is to democratic republic.

Koch brothers :p

What about them?, you keep mentioning them...

they're the republican version of the person you keep mentioning ;)

Uhm....no, not even close, they do buy cronie politicians but as far as I know they don't engage in terroism and destabilization of democratic governments, its apples and oranges, elfy ;-)

A look into Soros inter workings...

https://youtu.be/1eRFTHD2CTg


This guy goes far beyond buying cronie politicians.

I am not surprised that a science-denier and fact-denier like KoH gets his 'facts' about Soros from a yt channel that also promotes videos that deny the Holocaust:

The Young Philosopher
Holocaust Hoax & Zionist WW2 Lies Exposed
https://youtu.be/TxpIsep4160

To be clear
The US is a representative democratic republic. Aside from state referendums, we don't vote on issues. We vote for _people_ to represent us on the issues, and they do their best (in theory) to represent their constituents when debating and deciding issues. It is our representatives that pound out the details through negotiation and compromise. It is true that for every political office we rely on a direct (pure) democratic vote to choose the _people_ that will represent us.

Our system has a direct democratic vote to choose the people that will decide on the issues.

That distinction is important. We vote directly for the people that will represent us, not on the issues.

But that process is skewed only when we elect a President. That is the one time in all the elections throughout all of America in which the candidate with a lesser vote total can win. This was a bad compromise at it's origin 200 years ago. It's a flawed relic now.

Even President-Elect Donald Trump agrees the Electoral College should go.

You trully are dumber than i thought...lol lol lol

KoH's almost caught up with his Watch Later list hahahaaa

https://www.youtube.com/...oungPhilosopherHub/videos

I like this cyref guy. Wheres he been all my life?

I imagine the electoral college existed at a time when fast means of communication did not exist... or even an accurate ballot count. From 1776 til the advent of mass telecommunication technology, I can see why the electoral college needed to be there... but now it's antiquity like carrier pigeon, the typewriter, and disco music.

Go cry some moar, you can attack sources all day but doesn't change facts, that's why I call you libtards, cyref.

More bad news!!!!
https://youtu.be/Gn-RvN54Eos

KoH, a question. What is your process when choosing what to believe?

For example, your last 'proof' comes from the Corbett Report yt channel.
https://www.youtube.com/user/corbettreport/videos

Here's a channel that has videos describing 911 as an inside job, the conspiracy of chemtrails, suggests the Boston Marathon bombings and the Orlando Pulse and Dallas police shootings were also 'false flag' ops, and that climate change affected by the burning of fossil fuels is just a conspiracy of 99% of climate scientists from around the world.

KoH do you believe everything on that channel?
If not, what are the tools you use that help you determine which videos to believe, and which ones to reject?

Teach me KoH!

*waves to Dissi* hey you may have even voted for me if my political career had not been thwarted by The Terrible Bowling Alley Incident of '77 =)
I did mention the origin of the Electoral College upthread, you are basically correct.

Ill be lying if i said i didnt utter tldr when opening the thread. Basically i read the last three posts and carry on from there.

Thats how i got my BA anyways...

https://youtu.be/LBgWetKCqkg !

More proof!

https://youtu.be/M7B5KwXHFtw

Pull It
https://youtu.be/HKKIQfU7OsI

Bull!

https://youtu.be/SMiYKNhgcbM

This game is a muffukkin trip man....

https://youtu.be/mVwTuDjx5uo