Blackhole: please tell me you’re not doing this? I try to find the good in all people as you know. But I want this to be the last time during any back and forth exchange/argument of the game that I see a sleight of hand mention like that. Again, I’ll assume you meant no offense, but please please leave that out. Feel free to attack, belittle, ridicule, analyze, debate, fight, argue, insult, and offend in any other way but the way KoH just described. Please.

Don't tell BH what to do.

You know what's funny to me? And maybe it's just this is the 70th time this has happened so I don't really really care, but fluff man. That PCI conversation is essential to me being able to teach casher as a strat. It's essentially "go by feel" right now because the PCI growth formula is actually lost, and only very elite players can compete with FFO on the one other strat that works currently as a result.

KoH, of Trumpers, is one of the most open minded people I know who actually takes criticisms in political debates correctly. He's a moderate who was near as likely to vote for Obama as he was Romney when the choices were meh. Liberals as a whole could take a deep breath and learn from people sometimes.

I get the guy did crimes....he's currently paying for. There's certainly no escaping the slow but steady arm of criminal justice. I think people who didn't assume he would leave office willingly and revoke his own diplomatic immunity are probably unfamiliar with the 20 years before he became POTUS.

Whether it's Trump Steaks, Stormy Daniels, the Taj in Atlantic City, "grab em by the fluff," peeing on Girls in Russia on film only to get blackmailed later, Trump University, etc. I mean...the guy's probably fun to have a beer with is all I'm saying.

He never expected to win tho, and when he did, it thrust all that fluff into the public eye, much of which he is criminally culpable for and when his criminal enterprise fully topples because people like Manafort love talking, he's likely to die in prison.

My girlfriend at the time when Trump won, cried on election night. And she voted for Jill Stein in PA. I, of course, voted for the first Democrat of my life in Hillary. And you and I can talk about why I voted for McCain v Obama, which KoH is familiar with. But the reason I voted for Hillary is because I know how the game works and why Trump posed an existential threat to democracy....

Government building contracts are the one thing the executive branch has ubiquitous control over. People forget why Gerald Ford was ever President and assume he was VP. He was actually never elected to any office....

To put things short, Nixon was doing Watergate (which btw, happens in every election and wouldn't have effected Nixon were he less paranoid), and his vice president, Spiro Agnew, was an actual criminal. So they removed Spiro from office and just like....gave Gerald Ford VP, then Nixon resigned and Ford became president.

Why did it go down that way?

Well. Ol Spiro was a real estate mogul very much of Trump's ilk firebrand conservative. And his main goal was to run up large building contracts he subsidized through the Italian mafia to give his homies the richest building contracts. And in turn, people literally called Spiro the "Paper Bag Man" because people were showing up at the White House with paper bags full of cash for the dude giving them building contracts.

Important part of history that gets lost.........
Spiro Agnew 10000% should have been president when Nixon got fluffed for being paranoid. So a guy no one ever voted for became president in Ford. And the situation was covered up by George H.W. Bush (as a young man, H.W. did the paperwork 18 years before he would become president), to cover up of what Spiro did with bags of money behind the push to cover up Watergate. I get that doesn't make sense, but it's what happened.

Since then, I've always been nervous about the executives controlling building contracts, especially when a real estate guy runs on the platform of building a multi-billion dollar wall when something like 90% of our illegals are on expired visas. Your Elian Gonzalas swim here dude or run like hell in Tijuana dudes are actually pretty rare and our immigration system being fluffed is responsible for most illegal immigration.

Piecing those bits of history together I was able to discern Trump said to the dudes who build his hotels, "give me a billion dollars and I'll give you 4 for a wall." And I think that was his entire platform besides WWE'ing liberals. But he was also culpable for many crimes and I didn't think he thought he would win, or else it would mess up his whole thing.

And mess up his whole thing it did.

Reflectively, when I voted for Hillary because I believed Trump posed an existential threat to democracy, it turned out was correct but for all the wrong reasons. I don't think in the future when SCOTUS tells Al Gore to stop his recount in Florida, and he conceded respectfully (people who accidentally voted for two Presidents or none because of outdated machines, unreadable paper ballots, etc. could have given Gore Florida. It's likely close to 10s of thousands of ballots get tossed that way each year and he wanted folks to hand count them. Most models had him losing had the conservative leaning SCOTUS not blocked him...libs like to say he wouldda won but he wouldn't. But something that remains true. Most fluffed up ballots aren't mail, it's generally awful technology at a polling station).

Annnnnnnnnnnd that's how I knew it would be necessary for Trump to stay in power after putting himself in the limelight, to stay out of prison. It's not that complicated. He was just tryna get a couple bags for his boys, and them got hosed by them when he couldn't deliver.

He's fully gonna go down for the "insurrection" but I mean...they're gonna stack 2 lifetimes on him for like...the dude from The Fugees robbing a Malaysian bank (Killing Me Softly while simultaneously digitally taking a billion dollars from a government is a vibe) and donating the entire piracy to Trump's campaign thru Stone. It's a mess lol.

The important part to realize tho, is that if we had the PCI growth formula, players would be more likely to create AI that could assist our programming in optimization of stragery.

If you're gonna TL;DR me btw, read the last sentence. I posted for BH (long form) and also wanted to derail KoHvBH, but wanted to stay on point with another "Derrick is boring, stop talking about PCI" thing out there.

KoH and I will film drinking beers together when we do them, while he argues for solid conservative minds and I argue for better moderates. Unfortunately for both of us, neither of us is rich enough to benefit from either. And we will both subtly recognize our qualms with the other side are generally a facade/echo chamber has created to keep us poor while they stroke each other's rich egos. He's right...you really don't know him....

That all said, can you imagine how bad an AI would be if it had to machine learn from playing earth like a human, one month at a time? It can only know the wisdom its programmer can impart plus what it discovers every 2 months. And despite our DB access we dont even fluffin know how PCI works. I bet it would take an AI longer than BHole to learn the game lol.

I think we've fully discovered a way to create the worst AI ever that's fully non-functional for anything....you know...unless some asshole looked at the code and PROVIDED THE fluffING PCI GROWTH FORMULA lol



P.P.P.P.P.S. I try to give KoH well wishes sparingly because I don't want any woe is me out of him. In fact, I'd prefer his masculinity be more toxic atm. Gotta keep it as sharp as a razor. Lol

Hmmm.....

I said "I hope your treatments are going well".


I'm really confused how that's being confused as anything other than kind?


I suppose it's because I said it in response to Koh personally attacking me. And ya'll are just thinking I was... I don't know? Being a fluff by saying it?


Let's try this again. Pretend KoH was going on vacation, and he personally insulted me in his post. And instead of personally insulting him back, I acknowledged what he said then said to him 'I hope you have a good vacation'.


Is that me also being mean? Am I not allowed to respond to personal attacks with kindness?

If it was indeed met with kindness then my apologies. But if you read my post, I clearly said: “I’ll assume you meant no offense” giving way to the benefit of anyone’s doubt. It’s just a personal touchy subject for a lot of us here. Carry on.

Well it wasn't just you I was responding to. Koh called me a lowlife afterwards, so obviously he thought I was being unkind as well. Wanted to make sure everyone knew that wasn't the intent. I guess it's tough to tell context from text on a screen sometimes.

Black and white text is often difficult. Judging mood, tone, moderation, and inflections are difficult online. But I’m glad we had this chat. Many around here don’t own their comments. I do.

Have a magical day boys and girls!

The PCI growth formula doesn't even matter because startups don't matter anymore. You will have equilibrium PCI more or less for 99% of the turns of the round.

We all know the PCI formula and thus we can calculate the income/turn per acre of a rep/theo/demo casher after food expenses. PCI growth formula will only really limit PCI growth beyond just the equilibrium for maybe 50 turns per round and only if you make a very low acreage switch or are agressively trying to push your income up very early.

As far as I know the known parts of the PCI growth formula govern PCI growth in all scenarios other than walling.

The expenses scale exponentially with military units but the cost of a point of NW is the same when you oil destock to 200m 800m or 6000m NW. This is fundamentally why FFO is the only strat that can consistently compete on long servers.

Buy 6 turrets on Alpha and your expenses become $1. Instead buy 6 billion turrets and your expenses are now 20 billion or something, so each turret now costs 20 times as much to maintain. This is quite unrealistic, if that matters, but more crucially as the NW potential rises above a few hundred million it makes CI and any endgame that takes turns quickly unfeasible.

If you think about it a Commie indy actually outproduce an FFO on a NW to land basis as max tech CI produce about 2.4 NW of jets per acre per turn, plus tax revenues minus the basic non-military expenses equal to about 0.4 NW while cashing. So we are talking 2.8 NW per turn and acre. This is nearly what a casher makes if he buy military on private market for all his income each turn.
For FFO that number depends on the prices at hand but we are generally closer to 1.8 NW.

Humanitarians, the extra bonus boost FFOs have also make a difference. But those need not enter the conversation as long as we have the current expense fomula.

Tl;dr the oil destock is a weak way to finish until the exponential expenses destroy every other way to gain NW.

Gerdler, what was your worse netting set? 250 million? I read all your math posts and you remember I’m a simple blonde twink lol it seems like every single turn matters. Like every single turn.

Second. So the hybrid oil/food jump isn’t after all a big help? I guess I’m so confused lol shocking I know.

Hybrid/oil is quite expensive in terms of $$/NW, but it shines when military expenses get very high, like at high NW - because expenses are dependent on your NW. On solo servers, FFO is not the preferred destock, but there are many methods which are competitive. On 1a, with all of the bots and high acreage, expenses dominate for top networths, so FFO is the only real way to win (with a few nice techers thrown into the mix on some sets, but they're likely still using oil to destock unless the public market can handle their 1.5B bushels).

Gerdler just stop it.

Geta, this has to be the worst bullfluff i have ever read. What is next you buy a ticket to visit Gerdler IRL to beat him up?

Thanks T. I have never played on another server and maybe should try some of these out for more experience. I was gone along time and in the 2 years I’ve been back, I’ve really sat down and focused on a better finish. But thanks and I hope gerdler, you, and others like Derrick and even chevs can pull off great strats and finishes.

Gains, not sure what you’re stopping but I do appreciate some of gerdlers advice as well as others. I don’t care about beefs and drama, but Gerdler as well as others have helped with these advice posts making ME better at the game and I hope he’ll see my question and answer. Derrick and T also provide help. I would like to improve my own game play. Unless you’ll buy a ticket and visit me to teach me? LOL 🥰

I can confirm that Tmacs starts aren’t ahead if everyone either. We have traded stats so we could number crunch, and on two different sets I have observed I was ahead of Tmac early on, as the set progresses he would pull ahead simply by skill. These guys at the top aren’t making any mistakes, at all. It’s pretty crazy actually. I’ve been said the United States government could use these guys to plot war strategy and conquer the planet. It takes a special kind of mind to do what they are doing. The creator has blessed them all greatly in that regard. A normal human could practice for a lifetime and will never be capable of doing what Tmac or his trans rival Gerdler does.

I feel like that was going over the line. It was, at the very least, in bad taste. I would prefer people to not even go down that road.

If I were you, I would apologize and move on.

**I didn't read any of your other posts so maybe you already did that.

Mine? The hell i do.

No Bhole I prob edited that poorly on the asterisks lol

I was trying to make it shorter. You Chatty Cathys make a post 5 pages long!

Cath are you serious? That’s not even the same comparison.

Tmac is just built different. He is proof that someone can be a good player AND be a good person at the same time.

What r u on about United States conquering the world? Why would we want that? The defense industry would go broke if that happens.

If you can't recognize Gerdler is also a very good player, you're clearly showing you aren't having a serious conversation with anyone, and are just here to be a jerk.

This game is easy. It's the brain washing and manipulation that Gerd is best at. The best nemesis we could ask for. He has the swede virgin thing really mastered.

And no he doesn't cheat. He spends too much time on this game to cheat. Like actual cheat. He might get insider info or hear things here and there, but he did the time to figure it out. We have screen shots to prove it. To be used against him in future videos.

While we spend minutes a day and break records.

You guys want to keep saying how I broke my word, and broke our pact? I'll call Gerdler a cheat. Its probably true anyway, I've always thought that about afaik and Gerdler.

You guys want to set up Clan GDI to protect yourselves because you don't trust our word and our pact and have to go begging qzjul to change the game code to make it impossible to hit you? I'll tell you, when Clan GDI is cancelled because 50% of the players are quitting in protest, LaF is going to get creamed.

Its just a game Gainsboro. I'm not doing anything to anyone in real life. Retals are part of this game.

I’m not comparing them, I just thought it added context for people to understand that arguably one of the best or the best best to ever play the game didn’t have any big special trick. At turn 600-1,000 I have watched him go from behind me to leaving me in the dust. It’s an intelligence thing. They are a mathematical genius. I’m not talking about just T or Gerdler. Serpentor was brilliant. Oldman. H20. Crest23. I don’t doubt at all that if you had them tested that most or all of them are geniuses or very very close to that in terms of IQ.

Getafix are you telling us you’re going to crush a whole alliance because of shenanigans from 2-3 guys?

Man that’s based.

I don't think Geta is doing anything anymore...

... aside from baseless accusations of cheating.... for obvious reasons.

You're right BlackHole, I'm not doing anything. I'm really disappointed that the game has been wrecked. It's been my favorite pastime for years, and now the game isn't worth playing. I blame Gerdler.

I'm sick of arguing with Turtlecrawler. I do keep my word. I don't break pacts. I back up my allies, and I was the one who suggested the 12 month pact, and I had every intention of following the spirit of that pact. As a leader of SoL, I would have used all my influence to stop the more hateful members of our coalition from attacking LaF, and I was ready to work towards more cooperation between us all.

Never make a 1 turn mistake with Gerdler around. 🤣🤣
I have the been there done that medal.

Blame Gerdler all you want, but don't take any blame yourself. You're absolutely not, in any way shape or form, responsible for the health of this community.

There is no way, in any world, that you posting public accusations of cheating, that it would affect the likelihood of new players, or even current players, stick around. Baseless accusations of cheating are probably good for the health of the community, actually.


And there is also no way that you constantly bashing the game mods, accusing them publicly of ruining the game, or trying to favor only Gerdler, would have any effect on players wanting to play this game.


You're right to blame Gerdler for the dwindling player base. It is 100%, obviously, all his fault.

Y’all make my ass tired lol 🥵

Normally people don't contradict themselves inside the same paragraph. The only way to "fix" the game is for the pact breakers to be replaced in leadership with those who opposed those decisions, and to see commitments by new leadership to make sure it never happens again. The sanctity of pacts was the fundamental base for the server, which has now been shattered. Without the rules for alliance based interaction there is simply no basis for anyone to complain about anything.

There were plenty of rules, here were some:
1) pacts are unvoidable, act as if there were real world liability
2) winning countries should be legit/unaided ideally or would have won if everyone were so
3) wars should either be arranged or held with defined goals
4) alliances that win wars should have the upper hand in achieving their goals, which should then be realized, ending the conflict.
5) breaking the rules means open season on the alliance until they return.

So, for example, if some alliance leader has a grudge, without any desire to change behavior through updating pact terms and went to war, that would make them a valid war target until they gave it up. If an alliance decided to aid into the top spot a country that would not have won only considering individual effort, that alliance should not expect to net (FYI I would have won last set without being disturbed, so it's fair game to aid me back into the top spot).

So in the old system, if SOL still had honor, they would be busy killing theBomb with a nice little fully justified war. But instead SOL got the exact pact terms they wanted, but refused to let that end the conflict, and even broke the pact - now quitting the server in disgrace, their last actions being the rejection of everything 1A ever stood for.

tl;dr

Try it again in 100 words or less.

TLDR

-Fratboi99 plays fucfuc games for a long time and gets his ass kicked.

-new players joins the game and fratboi99 snatched them up to grief fratboi99’s competition and they got their asses kicked.

- fratboi99’s simp is sensitive and likes to report everyone, gets his ass kicked.

-Getafix is the asskicker
-Genpop community sides with asskicker
-asskicker is a based badass

Let me know when you come over to my neck of the woods Req.

Excellent, I am now caught up. Thanks for your service, Coalie. You are a gentleman and a scholar.

Yeah I still believe expenses for 1 troop should go down the more you have, not exponentially increase. It penalizes netters for carrying defense, penalizes war dogs for building a good stock before a war or a big military, and makes oil destock as FFO the meta when in reality the nw/$ is kinda terrible.

I was extremely happy to see qzjul thinking about flipping it when he posted about no changes for this set. I'd legitimately consider netting that meta, assuming defenses are still required to play within the confines of netting. Amount of defense should still have some risk/reward to it, and I don't really vibe on the bot farming defenseless to a bazillion acres vibe. But strategy parity could be very cool with oil destock out as elite.

I'm impressed that anyone is butt hurt enough to be mentioning honour in this particular thread.
There is very little of it throughout this community, which is why hundreds (thousands?) of players have already left.

Holding defences isn't an issue at all, it's humanitarians that is the issue. Having defences pushes you out of NW range earlier, and makes gains smaller while in range. The other impacts of holding ~3M turrets are of no concern.

There is certainly very little of it in SOL, and there is always a temptation to project ourselves onto others.

I agree with the others and lose a lot of respect from this comment BH. You talk about not saying offensive and hurtful things. There’s nothing more painful for a lot of people out here than that topic. If you have never been around one of those children’s hospitals I think it may change how you think on that topic and add it to your “offensive” things list that we don’t joke about. Even if Ko was talking
Trash first, don’t stoop to that level BH. I’ve agreed with you on a lot
About not hurting people and treating our fellow humans better and I really do believe those things. Not your best moment.

Of course. And that's why oil and hybrid destocking wouldn't totally disappear and they would still be competitive. The broken expenses formula is PART of why an MBR has never crossed 800m while FFOs regularly cross 1b, but there's also the fact that it can take days to destock as MBR whereas an oil destock is 6 turns. The low nw/$ is somewhat made up for by the extra days of production.

The main deterrent to destocking MBR is expenses tho, not that the bots aren't hearty enough to hit. It's also the main deterrent to running TTR -> Demo reseller and C/I. I get there's several reasons for running defenseless as a netter, including better gains and staying in bot range longer, but it's hardly the main reason running a defenseless FFO to 350k acres and then oil destocking is the only winning strat.

When I say "it encourages netters to carry defense," I think I'm mostly talking about netters being encouraged to run strats that carry and make income off military, like reseller, MBR and C/I.

To be clear, I'm not saying a 350k acre defenseless until oil destocked FFO shouldn't be competitive with play that takes more skill. I really think all strats should just be in balance. And netters being encouraged to run military based strats is the same thing to me as netters carrying defense.

I genuinely don't get how I was joking about anything. I said I hope his treatments are going well.


Anything beyond that are things others are reading into the text, that plainly, aren't there. That's not on me, and I'm not going to apologize for saying something nice to a person, even though he said something mean to me.

I'm pretty sure I've said something similar to him before, too. In one of his other threads. "Hope treatments are going well, hope things go good" something to that effect.

The only difference here is that I guess you all expected me to respond with vitriol when he called me names.

Sorry I didn't, maybe I should have and it would have been received better, lol.

The timing and context make a reasonable person believe it was not a question in good faith.

Just drop it and quit trying to justify it.

for real.. this thread is tedious!

Someone was getting somewhere for once.

I hate to say I didn't read it in wrong context, and being friends with KoH I would have edited it if I thought it was. I feel like when people are annoyed with others....they take the context as wrong.
If I was still super annoyed with Chevs....I would still take every little thing he says as bad intentions. (Sometimes I question his ability to make rash decisions though, but that is neither here nor there).

I’ll have to kindly and respectfully disagree with you Galleri. I interpreted the comment as bhole publicly criticizing or expressing contempt for KoH’s situation. Bhole could’ve responded with a number of other things but he chose to attack KoH where it hurts him the most.

The recipient also interpreted it that way, so did a lot of us.

That is your opinion. You are welcome to it.

The only reason FFO wins is because of build cost reduction. Every other strategy is forced to stock at some point because of build costs, but FFO/cashers actually gain steam as the set processes. Near the end growth has essentially free.

Oil destock will always win as long as oil can be used for PM.

Some people would jump earlier without build cost reduction, food would follow a different pattern, but it would still be oil based.

Next best strategies are techers and cashers with max decay.

You're right. I could have called KoH a lowlife (like he did me) or an idiot (for his political views). I could have called him any number of derogatory things. I could have continued arguing with him. I could have done all kinds of things to attack him in any number of ways.



What did I do? I gave him well wishes for his treatment.


That's literally all I did.


All you can do is read words on a screen. So if you want to claim to be able to read my tone or attitude from words on a screen, feel free to try. But I'm telling all of you, you're failing miserably at it.

Req - I'll let it go as soon as people stop criticizing me for being the only person in the exchange to respond in kindness rather than with hateful words.


Btw, I type this as I look down at my shirt. I'm literally wearing a cancer charity t-shirt for my soccer team that supported a local charity earlier this year. I've had close family members die from cancer. It's an awful fluffing disease.


And because of that, I'm going to say what I said earlier. Koh - I hope your treatments are going well.

I've said the same words I said earlier, and I genuinely mean that. If you all want to take my words as some weird attack against Koh, you're free to do so. We can disagree all we want about all kinds of stuff, but regardless of all of it, I hope his treatments go well.


I really think some of you need to get over your hatred for me, as you clearly want to interpret anything I say with the least charitable imagination possible.


I have no ill will toward Koh personally. I hope he kicks cancers fluffing ass.

HI

I think I been getting free turns from someone. It says heres free turns for leaving your people alone, but I logged in an hour ago.