14 seems too short, that leaves potentially 6 weeks of a long drawn out war.
21 at first seems short I admit as that still leaves maybe a 5 week long war. However looking from opposing viewpoint as it stands now with 4 weeks which is half the set. A whole half set of declared peace in a war game seems kinda silly.

As I posted before in the other thread, I see 3 distinct phases. Building up phase, stocking phase and de-stocking phase. What makes sense to me is war after the first building phase. So the question that needs to be answered is when the end of that is here and make that the de-facto peace period. 2 - 3 weeks building phase depending on the strat you run but will leave that to more experienced vets to answer. Imho 21 days is about right.

SAM SPEAKS TRUTH. BOTH HE AND I ARE TAKING A STEP BACK FROM THIS GAME WHILE WE DEAL WITH RL fluff. OBVIOUSLY, HOWEVER, BOTH HE AND I ARE UNABLE TO COMPLETELY DIVORCE OURSELVES FROM THE FORUMS AT LEAST!

HA!
BILL

Oh well. Even though I am a member of MD, I disagree with the destroying of iMag.

But again, iMag could also have read the pact, and you would have avoided this!

lol...

http://youtu.be/cUsKZROdjL4

[quote poster=JOE DANGER; 33453; 606903]THE MIGHTY CLAN [DANGER]! REFUSES COMMIT TO NOT SENDING INFORMATIVE AND EXPLOSIVE IN GAME MESSAGES WRITTEN WITH THE LETTERS OF POWER BEFORE WEEK 4. OUR LETTERS OF POWER CANNOT BE DENIED!


HA!

JOE DANGER
IN CHARGE OF NOTHING
NOT SURE WHAT THIS POST ACTUALLY MEANS
FUTURE DREAM: WINNING THE IGNOBLE PRIZE
[/quote]

Was this not danger pretty much saying they don't agree with the EWPP, and yet they tell the Signers that they would want them to invoke it?

Seems kinda lame.

You're an idiot

CELESTICA: NOTHING CAN STOP US FROM OUR VIOLENT PACIFISM.

HA!

As it should Joe Danger, not even the Ewwwww PeePee should stop anyone from doing what they want.

"SENDING INFORMATIVE AND EXPLOSIVE IN GAME MESSAGES"

Cause that obviously means attacking people, I guess? I honestly don't see how you decided Danger! was against the EWPP from this sentence.....boggles my mind, really.

The EWPP applies to everyone. The signatories have made certain that there is no way to avoid it, either through actions or through diplomacy. This was unavoidable.

I thought they were using it as metaphor for attacking, which sends a message of POWER and EXPLOSIONS to the ones they attacked. Because in the pact where does it say they cannot send recruitment messages or threats? No where, which means the only relevance such post would have is if they were referring to attacking.

DANGER likes to add EXPLOSIVE FLAIR and POWERFUL METAPHORS instead of dull normal text in their messages. So you have to look at their overall meaning behind what they say not the literal meaning of the words.

Now if I am misunderstanding DANGERS intent with that message I would be fine, but no one from DANGER has clarified.

whoppie

Fdf, cc and tella all claim to write the ewpeepee, all are poooooossssieeees...

http://youtu.be/vaZCI5-Sc9M

I haven't seen so much angst since the emo/goth trends in high school....

I havent ever seen so many people in line getting their ewpeepee redwings and smile.

http://youtu.be/pLMUB6OxSZI

What the hell are you talking about? Danger doesn't attack people unless attacked first. I'll forgive you for not knowing a thing about them, despite the fact that they've been around for several years at this point, but that's kind of their thing. They don't attack.

But making a joke about not being allowed to send ingame messages has NOTHING to do with the pact, and considering Danger wanted nothing to do with you guys when you blindsided them, no, they are not against the pact.

The way to avoid it is to wait until day 29, and then the pact is void. They could have waited one more week, and then we wouldn't have had a situation where we either enforce the pact as it was written, or get laughed at(by the same people who fluff at us enforcing it) for the pact having no meaning and no teeth.

Honestly, it was pretty effing clear what would happen. It's not our fault that the leaders of imag didn't bother to read AT. Hell, breeze(who says he's the president), didn't even have an account until this happened. Shoddy FA work, if you ask me.

Shoddy FA work? The pact did all the FA work for DANGER. They didn't even need to ask.

If this pact only held for the signatories, nobody would care. You are free to play as you see fit, but this only goes so far as your own country. As it is, you are bullies enforcing your style of gameplay on those who neither wanted it nor knew about it. The game has no prohibition on early wars, just as reading AT is not mandatory. Stop metagaming everyone else's games.

Shoddy FA work. Ask anyone with legit FA experience on this server. AT is required reading if you want to know wtf is going on in the politics of this game. It has always been that way. You're right, there are no ingame prohibitions on anything except running multies, and formula limitations such as nw restrictions and gdi. EEEVVEEERRRYYTTHHIIINNGGG else in this game is a political construct and a set of norms that alliances abide by, both formally and informally.

L:L retals, automatic(mostly) warDNHs, Retal policies in general, Pacting in general. All are added to the game by alliances and their evolving relationships. This is the latest iteration of that process.

And yeah, you're right, imag doesn't have to read these boards to have an alliance. They also don't have to abide by the pact. But, as we can all see from the ingame news, this is what happens if you don't do either of those things.

All that being said, it's still shoddy FA work. Galleri and Soviet know that too.

Alot of shoddy fa work and leaders got what we have today. Bath in your success. Lol

Shoddy FA may have caused this exact situation, doesn't stop the fact that the EWPP is still stupid and unfun. All that has been brought up from this is proving that it really is a pointless thing and silly.

So all the grudge matches, reset long wars, wars that spilled into multiple resets, everything that forced the creation of such a pact... what was that exactly?

To paraphrase the old Jonathan Edwards song... you can't even run your own alliance, I'll be damned if you run mine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScfUfsUlGro

Yes I should have read AT before we attacked. That you are correct.

That's regular FA work :D

Tellaion, you stick to your guns, I respect that. I do hope you keep doing that, because without debate and discussion there is no way for the EWPP to be changed, errata'd or stripped.

Yes the pact was very very very shady, shoddy, fa work. Anyway you spin this, that pact was ignored and had no validity from the time it was put on paper. It was an open-ended pact to allow alliances to gangbang, as has been witnessed.

How was it constructed to make gang banging possible? It was put in place to stop early wars with the threat of being systematically killed by the server if you got out of line.

After seeing the alliance numbers down set after, with the same wars going earlier and earlier... something had to be done. Will this last? Probably not, but i can almost bet there will be a form of it from here on out. Some tweals and changes need to be made, sure. But the pact worked the way it was intended too.

Yes, it is. The fact that it has become the norm on this server does not exclude it from being shoddy.

Simple tweak: it only applies to signatories, whether they be offending or defending. Suddenly, everyone would be happy because nobody has their policies dictated to them by the latest super-alliance incarnation, which is exactly what this creates for the first 28 days or so. If you want to really go next level, clauses could also be included to allow an alliance to, for example, avenge DANGER or any other blind-sided alliances.

The intent was not necessarily the problem as the motives behind the EWPP are not inherently evil. The problem is the heavy handed execution. All that changed from previous resets is that the core group of alliances dictating gameplay this set include every major alliance instead of just SoF and friends or LaF and friends or whatever.

And then what's to stop an alliance tagging 30 of their members over to a non-signatory and FS'ing OOP?

And then what's to stop an alliance tagging 30 of their members over to a non-signatory and FS'ing OOP?

whats to stop a group of 30-40 don't even tag and than strike. What if a meteor fell and destroyed Tokyo, we should make a pact for that eventuality. Goes from dumb to dumber.

ciao

Well I think I'm getting bored.

Nothing, unless they FS a signatory.

As it currently stands, what is there to stop a brazen alliance from quad-tapping someone every 48 hours? It isn't an extreme act of war, but legitimate wars have been started for far less...

Firstly it would be dishonourable; secondly it would be seen through. But most importantly the signatories didn't enter this pact because they had guns to their heads, they all WANT to stop early wars. The notion that one would suddenly change its mind and set out to undermine the thing is not realistic.

I am glad that tweaks are being talked of among those who signed.

I have previously posted a suggested new form for the pact

" The signatory clans have agreed not to war each other during the first four weeks of the set and any signatory which launches a FS on another during that time will be gang banged by all the rest. "

want in one hand and fluff in the other, see which one fills up first

This is too sad to even troll

Can we all agree nobody fluffs with canada?

Again you act as if both us were here since the beginning of the set.
And again I will remind you that in TWO different threads I already stated I did not agree with what iMag did to DANGER. But that is not stopping me from making sure things get fixed, reminding people how they are contradicting themselves etc and lastly I will repeat myself...that pact is tad bit bullying (not to forget it is controlling, almost like the control TSO had on team server ;) )

I have yet to get an answer to my question which I have asked twice now. It has continually been avoided. Why was iMag never contacted? I was told by a leader involved in the EWPP that iMag was discussed that they were not a spamtag etc.... so why were they not attmepted to be contacted? And why were they not added to the list?
Also why is it many people from different clans including in leadership have sent me messages telling me "While I don't think what iMag did was right, I also don't feel they should of been attacked the way they did and I also don't agree with the EWPP even though my clan leaders signed it". How many members of those clans were "polled" or questioned about how they felt?

Moving forward: These arguments are continually going to go round and round and nothing is coming out of it productive at all on this forum. You will disagree with me and I will disagree you, but that is nature of the game and the human race.

In my final words (no I am not writing a will): If iMag were to hit a clan already in war with someone and we came in as defense to the other clan are we in violation? Do the Great Mighty Masters of this server allow this?

Thank you for reading!

Reading the same people posting the same things in so many threads getting really tiresome.

The worst thing you can do to iMag is leave us alone :)

From the looks of things all the important people have quit earth and now Tella is top dog. Good on ya, but you are sounding like more of a dink then RD colors back in swirve days

bonus

I know you weren't here. I'm talking about whoever has been leading imag until now(breeze?). You know that reading AT is necessary to keep tabs on what's going on. Apparently everyone knew about the pact EXCEPT imag.



I don't consider imag to be a spamtag, and I don't know why they weren't added to the list. That being said, it doesn't matter if they're on the list or not, cause Danger is explicitly stated on the list. As far as not contacting alliances directly, again, you are responsible for finding out what will happen if you attack another alliance. You and Soviet(yes, I know you weren't here), know that it's not a good idea to hit Danger, even without the ewpp. Do some FA work and figure out who your target is pacted with before attacking. Hell, they could have had an FDP with MD or someone for all you guys know, and the result would have been the same. I will not apologize for someone not reading a post that has been stickied for a month, not to mention debated multiple times on the forums for weeks.



As I already responded to someone in another thread, I don't know exactly what each alliance does when signing a pact like this. Most alliances share lots of info with their members. If the majority of members of an alliance disagree with their leaders' decisions, they should get new leaders or get a new alliance. Pretty simple if you ask me.



Again, the 'Great Mighty Masters' of this server are comprised of MD, Sol, Sof, Lcn, PDM, Laf, Evo, Rage, Rival, TPA, and Omega. Your references to TSO are amusing, but this is not a single alliance forcing everyone to submit to their whims. This is a unanimous decision among the leadership of the majority of the server. I'm sorry you are part of the only alliance that didn't seem to get the memo. Keep in mind that even Titans and OMA knew about the ewpp....

And you're right, this argument will probably continue back and forth and nothing will come of it. But I think you deserve a response, cause I like you :)

I'm top dog? Wow, wish someone had told me. Someone should go tell Laf, Sof, MD, Sol and Rage that I'm now running their alliances too...

hail telly, czar of ee?

Thank you for your answer. I like you too. Can we send flowers? :P Wait soviet I think owes me flowers from our wedding 3 weeks ago. Sheesh.
Titans and OMA spam this forum as much as you and I (when I am here) do. Shoot they probably know about threads that we don't know about because they don't exist to us, but they do for them! HA!
Can someone answer my part about if we join in a current war?? Thanks!

Confirmed! You are like Suncrusher whom is FA of all of Alliance! He will be by to confirm soon! Along with RLenga!

http://www.earthempires.com/...ce-talk/ewpp-33860#614195

The simple solution to all of this is to read everything on AT. iMag should call the war off if they haven't already, and just admit fault (if they haven't already). We can put this all behind us and move on. Besides, this pact expires after next set, right? Hold your grudges until then if it's that important.