and that was just one country...and shows that DR incident just happened once. So you're using that single event to justify for all the days you guys grabbing us from Aug 9-23?

---
Anyway this is my last post. As I've posted in Elysium I'm done with this game. I will believe that we made mistakes too and that we risked being killed by defending ourselves...but if you want to keep on believing you have no part in this then go ahead. And yeah I was thankful for the LaF...in the old days. I wasn't there but I heard it helped Ely. I guess it's only fitting you nail the final coffin ey? that is once zip official closes it...so good luck to them.

Having been a smaller alliance leader being offered a "pact" from LaF, albeit a very long time ago, I'm curious what the terms of the pact offered to Ely included? And if LaF actually intended to enforce these grabbing restrictions on their membership?

It looks like you guys are alienating yourselves from the rest of the remaining server pretty quickly. I'm actually interested to see what might come of this...in the aftermath, you can always rename yourselves "Legion" to save face. :p


---
To Elysium:
Forsaken will be starting up very soon. It was originally created nine years ago after two small alliances stood up and successfully delivered a hefty blow to LaF in response to their farming. If any Elysium members are interested in joining an old ally in it's return, the doors are open. I don't want to see you leave the game. Let's work together. Contact me here or on icq: 63045736. I'll be back online tomorrow afternoon. Noonish PST. GMT -8hours

sorry guy,

but you have 4 countries in your tag. That might as well be a non alliance and you should consider yourself fortunate that some if any alliances will treat you as an alliance.

it's up to you to make yourself relevant. Whining is meaninless. Do you see any of those untagged countries complaining about being hit 20 times a day? no. That is basically what you are but all your doing is complaining.

1. Start having a high indy commie early game and techers late game so you can keep up on retals and stay land thin so that you attract less hits.

2. join an alliance that can offer tag protection (the word tag protection doesn't appy for you because your tag currently can't protect its members.. no matter how much wishing you do)

3. Recruit more members, there's safety in numbers. there's safety in numbers, but even if you do this you still need retallers.

4. learn to like it.

double post

To be fair, Elysium was never the same after the original founders left the game.

I would like to remind everyone again that, if LaF restricts how many times they can hit a tag that isn't listed as Will Retal, we would most likely lose more then 5 members to retirement again in this reset alone.

what are you calling random - #18 and that enterprise country was hitting us 20 times a day, and you get pissed when we take back 2-3 retals, of coarse we were hitting back on the up - yous pounded us into the dirt

dude i pm you on saturday, and i pm H4 on saturday, i didn't here anything back till late monday, and the hits came flying in all weekend. we were only striking back on the countries that were hitting us. oh so we were supposed to just sit back, wait 48 hrs, get raped all weekend. i just saw the pm, logged in and saw i had 300 pop left.

Pang looks like a pretty giant fluffhole in this thread.

Rather rather giant.

Granted, as does Thomas, but that's what he's supposed to do.

LoL AxA

telling people to play better countries isn't a bad response, it is an appropriate response.

Take some responsibility for your countries inadequencies and your lack of members, as both are your fault.

Did we grab you a lot this reset? of course, but we did so because you were in a position where doing so was possible. LaF didn't put you in that position, you go there yourself through a long string of bad choices.

I just like how pang compared collabs 45 hits to lafs 300 lol

H4 I had no problem with the exchanging of grabs. we finally got our self dug out of the hole that EVERYONE put us in. I knew that was going to happen as our pacting in the start of the set didn't go like I thought it was. I am not blaming LAF for our pacting issues or our clan size.It just happened that we had a hand full of members that either had RL issues or just got tired of the game and retired at the same time. Who is going to pact a 5 member clan? I understand that the door was open.

What i am pissed about is that you killed us for retaling. We were growing to where we could strike back and you didn't like it. I bet the real reason you killed us is we were finally able to retal you w/ ss and we were starting to take some good land and others, like COLLAB, SOF to name a few, were taking it from us so you couldn't get your fair share back. Sure putting ourself in dr was an option that we discussed alot, but we only did it once, maybe twice as in our heart we thought it was a cheap tactic, but when you are in the dirt, your country is a mess cause of all the hits, buildings being destroyed, cs loss, what cash you do have and food taken, you do what you have to to grow and stay alive. And you make it sound like we were trying to ruin your all X countries, well look at the news, almost all of the hits were between the countries hitting us. i hit 1 outside the group a week ago, and i think we grabbed another but that was around the same time. We tried to only targeted the ones who were hitting us. Keep the innocent out of it I told everyone. We were getting a foot hold and you knocked us off.

LAF is not to blame for our numbers, but you are to blame for killing us.

Oh and on the pacting thing, We knew it was going to be rough and might be our last set, but being a small clan and in trying to help other small clans be able to retal, we do not like the 48 hr retal window. It benefits the attacker and there is nothing given to the defender to balance it. We are going down standing for what we think is right for the game. weither we are 5 or 500 we felt it was better to do the right thing, then hide in fear and play by your L:L, 200 % , 48 hr bullfluff.

The politics of the server is killing it, not the mechanics. Yes i said Server. There are a lot of people fed up with the current status quo of policy and you can see it in some of the changes in some of the clans changing their retal policy.

The builders have really taken this game to a new level, making the right tweaks and working so hard on it. When FaceBook comes out * crosses fingers * I hope it takes off like we all hope it will.

So instead of pacting LaF, meaning that no hits should be exchanged between the tags making the 48h retal window mostly irrelevant. You decided to not pact LaF which puts you open for hits and being a five country alliance you'd have a hard time fighting against the 48h window.

man LaF bungled this big time. You barely gained land in the whole exchange (it was def ANW negative) and you have made pretty serious enemies out of a few pretty decent (skill wise) players who are now clanless... ouch heh

Ya know... just because the f-bomb isn't filtered doesn't mean y'all need to be dropping it every 5 seconds. Try to converse like rational humans, would you please? *smacks Pang*

wow, this thread is so full of arrogance on some people's parts its almost laughable ..... almost.

How is it arrogance? It definitely isn't.

I find the opinions of people like you pretty funny as well Ruth. Funny in that they are so ridiculous it is laughable.

I think I'm going to have to agree with Ruth here. While a small clan is always going to be a target, there IS a reason that Darwinists are considered bad guys in most television series/films. Cutting a victim down faster than they can grow is no way to teach them how to "build a better country."

rofl no it doesn't teach them HOW to, it shows them that they NEED to. Since when was it our job to teach them to? We have our own members to train and teach, if you want to learn from us then join our organization heh.

But beyond that we also outright TOLD them what they needed to do with their countries, flat our told them how to do it. But people decided that complaining was a more viable option than trying to do something for themselves.

thats the biggest cop out ever. telling people they got farmed because they "need to run better countries" is total bullfluff IMO. how is someone supposed to build "better countries" when they are getting raped daily from the start

how about try to control your members a little better. apparently they cant handle getting retalled either.

Perhaps H4 needs to refresh himself on the meaning of the word arrogance, because his posts are full of it.

I'm well aware of what arrogance means. If you are seeing it in my posts then it is only because you want it to be there.

Pain: If they built better countries from the beginning then they wouldn't get hit, that is the point. You can't point to what happened this reset and say "see you are wrong" because they didn't do what they needed to do this reset, thus there is no basis for the analysis. Aka you can't point to crappy countries as an example of why running good countries won't work. That doesn't make sense.

I don't need to put more control on my members. People are free to grab whoever they want so long as there is no pact in place.

I understand "good countries from the beginning... wouldn't get hit," but I don't understand how they are supposed to improve while they're being farmed into the ground. Or are you suggesting that they should give up the whole month as a bad job and come back next reset?

Not specific here, but more general to LaF:

Maybe this time, it's not you. Maybe last time, it wasn't you. Maybe the time before that, it wasn't your fault then either. But at some point, the common thread in all of these incidents is you, which means you are the problem. Take a little responsibility for the results of your actions.

pretty much yeah. At the point things started going wrong for ely it was already too late to do anything about it for this reset.

responsibility for what, ely having 5 countries and none of them being able to retal indies or techers? Yeah thats really our fault.

What other past incidents are you talking about exactly? hmm?

tbh I would say it is nowhere close to what some of the laf haters say things are... but I definitely see some of their points sometimes... but for me one of the big things is turning down a pact... if you wont make any difference to laf policies why kill your clan and try -_-

No, the arrogance is there. But since the alliance you represent is in a position of power right now, it's your prerogative to be arrogant.

Doesn't help much with hearts and minds, but then again this has never been a hearts and minds kind of game.

at beg. of set, 48 hrs retal window. 200% l:l, etc. if 1 of big laffers had hit us we would have had 48hrs time (actually less if hit would have happened when none was online) to retal attacker with 200% l:l (and if grab had been near 1k then ........) and last offer was 72 hrs retal window, 200% l:l, etc. Pang icq'd to me last night just before I went to bed (and he went on dinner) and 20 hrs later Ely is killed.

As for LaF's education they should run pactless and farm all alliances who don't run proper strat by their definitions (I'm sure they could find some alliances).

pang offered you 72 and you didnt simply say yes dude? :( and if you were pacted the grabbing would have been manageable from laf anyways... perhaps not sof but meh then youd be fluffing at them

Let's get some facts out, Ely, what kind of defense were you guys running before all the hitting started?

I'm guessing 100k turrets each?


People run countries expecting to have tag protection, thinking that their 'alliance' is still meaningful in the game and living in the past.

You simply can't run 5 all explore netting countries as a 5 man tag. You have to EARN your tag protection set in and set out.


There's fault to both sides, in LaF, it's some member's abusive farming, in Ely, it's faulty leadership.

1) LaF does NOT hit allies and when we do, we make it right. We don't sign pacts with the intention of farming people -- believe that or not, it's true. If you had signed a pact with LaF you would not have been hit at all.

2) 48hr retal windows are our policy for unpacted alliances and something we'd like to see in our pacts. Every pact is up for debate on a case-by-case basis. It is seldom a "take our pact as is or leave it" situation. The FR's are very reasonable.

3) I messaged you after ZIP ignored me for a day about pact negotiations, and I knew we'd had enough of being topfeed while your players GS themselves into DR. You'll also notice that the one country who didn't do that is still alive right now.

All the LaF haters need to stop looking at LaF as the problem when there are SO many other problems on this server which are more severe than this.

This is by far the highest ratio of complaining to legit issues I've ever seen -- not just from Ely, but from the peanut gallery.

And besides...nothing anyone can really do about it, except complain.

BTW, Pang, this is one of those situations where your other forum account may be useful...you know, separate the 'Admin' account from the 'LaF Member/Leader' account...

I said I'd make a 2nd account if ALL the admins and mods do as well and we make it a rule...

you're basically saying that there is no separation between player and admin pang, when you of all people know that's not the case...

thanks for bringing what should be private admin talk to the public forums yet again, nukevil.

Actually, I never knew about your 'all mods and make a rule' condition. Every bit of what I know about your name change comes from this:

http://forums.earthempires.com/Forum.php?threadid=3320

...which is about as public as it gets, really.

I was in no way trying to be hostile towards you. I only brought it up due to the fact that everyone knows you have 2 forum accounts, and it may be helpful if you didn't get everyone confused about you speaking as an 'admin' or as an alliance member.

Pang: I said to you that I'm tired and I went to bed after you went on dinner and next time I came online (opened icq and had msg from you that you'll send pact terms to me and zip (which you did)) and after logging to boxcar I saw my country got killed.

Jelly: Dunno others but I had 350k turrets (10kish troops and few k tanks) at highest (4.6k acres) but due LaF's farming my def dropped to bit over 100k turrets, some troops and tanks and before kr on me started I was basically defenseless since there wasn't point to get more def since there was no way to get enuf def to stop LaF's, LCN's and SoF's hits so all money I got went on offense and building.

Land we got from LaF went mostly to LCN and SoF, I hope they find better use for it than we did.

As for Rage's leaders saying Ely leaders started last set war that's totally BS.

There's no point to continue this thread since we can't turn back time (and if we could then we all would run commy indy all jetters and got killed due that cause we could be potential suiciders).

The peanut gallery :P

We got nothing better to do. Drink beer, read AT, read whats left of the salvaged at-archive. Read clan stuff.

Speculation and trolling is 90% of what makes the community isn't it? hehe.

Like what 2 pages of SR? Ok, one page and 2 threads. wtf. There was tonnes of cool stuff there. Damn you wazmo!

Wait Laf/Ely? should I post something on topic? Mk.

I'd like to know why LaF openly discusses this on the forums? Whos actually gonna challenge them on this issue in-game? a couple untagged ely's next set intent on suicide maybe? Imag?

This all reaks of a giant publicity stunt. LaF got a reputation to keep after all.

Ely is done with Earth after this set and those who'll be left will continue to play but won't hold grudges against LaF on those Alliances they'll be playing.

If Ely someday returns we will for sure to ask LaF to approve our strats we are gonna run.

350k turrets is definitely not enough for a 4k acre country in a 5 man tag. I don't know what enough is, but it isn't enough.

well if you dont know, then how do you know

seriously. that was a pretty retarded statement.

maybe LaF can provide a proper guide for how much def/acre you need to have so that you dont get farmed relentlessly.

42

I was responding to Jelly's statement.

if they have 4k acres and are in a 5 man team, they will be hit even if they have 3m turrets. Free land that cannot be retalled for? Anyone is there.

We aren't even pacted to Ely.



22 LGs throughout this entire reset by an Alliance at 62 members? LOL. Why not divide the amount of hits by the amount of members in that tag?

LOL what babies you have over there. You guys bring a lot of this hate on yourselves with the ridiculous farming. You want to stop the hate, then relax on the grabbing. No PR in the world can fix that.

And if you have 5 guys who will quit over this, then they're clearly very selfish individuals. I wouldn't give them the opportunity to quit, just boot their asses.

nuke -> my name change was not to create a distinction between two accounts, it was to phase out Pangaea in favour of Pang. Pangaea is gone, Pang is the replacement. The Pangaea account only exists so there aren't orphan posts :p

I've said privately before that if we are going to get admins to make 2ndary accounts to play with, it would have to be a blanket change for all the admins... which I would be fine with, but I don't think it's really all that necessary.
I already get enough messages on my various accounts (forum, email, icq, msn, +2 boxcar ones)... I really don't want to add another.

Pang: I think you're missing nukevil's point. He's not talking about the account you play the game with, he's talking about the forums, and the two hats you wear, game administrator, and passionate defender of all that is LaF.

In the old days, swirve moderators had a check box for turning the moderator title on and off - something along those lines would be helpful here, especially when you are making partisan posts.