Then everything Laf did was just a tactic. And once the two cheaters were gone you had tactics to get revenge on. Go prove to me that any of you can be trusted while you are at it.

Go righteously deal with the whole server too. Don't just stop at Laf!

GLHF

jiman we need to chat.

A oversimplification of the situation that proceeded this reset.
You do make a point though, that certain tactics can be either nonorable or dishonorable. In my situation that I brought up though, I felt that it was neither. I am sorry if i didnt specify that clearly enough. I think it can be easily said though that the tactics based on cheating, no matter how you look at it, is dishonorable.

O, and if you dont trust my words, then I am sorry that I lost your trust, and wonder what I did for this to occur. I make it an effort to be as honest as I humanly can, even if it means I loss face.

Jiman, then answer this.

1. The political move to go after LAF was already well under way BEFORE the cheating accusations.

Um, because the level of aggression Laf was showing. Laf FSed SOL multiple sets. Even though we had NO PLANS to hit Laf, they still hit us. YA we did talk about taking our revenge on Laf, and Hanlong used those talks to hit us. In the end though, the convos ignored, were the ones where we fluffing decided to leave Laf alone because we didnt want to be put into a dam situation where SOL would be hit OVER AND OVER again.

Its like the freaking same time when Laf spread false lies that SOL was getting war preped, where in fact we were not even fluffing saving any turns before christmas because WE DIDNT WANT TO WAR DURING CHRISTMAS TIME.

We had every RIGHT to want to go after Laf. We freaking expressed it too ALL OVER THE PLACE. Did we ever decide to go forward with it though? fluff NO. Not while I was around for DAM sure.

You should be well aware though that LAF and friends were simply using my honesty, trusting nature, and position within SOL to put SOL into weak stance just so LAF could come in, twist our words around, and use that as a reason to come at US OVER AND OVER again.

You put a animal in the corner, its going to freaking lash out.
BESIDES, those talks were also during the time when we already had specisions that Laf was cheating. AND OOO we had ideas of this a little bit after it DID start.

I am not going to go into detail of this though, I want to avoid ranting any further then I already have.

Jiman you seem angry, are you also stuck on act 2 inferno?

fluff act 2 inferno! -_-

act 3 is even worse!

I was able to get past it a few days ago. The desert part was just horrifying as hell for a wizard. Everything is dam too fast. I have been focusing on farming until I go further in act 3 now.

58k Dmg, 500 Resists, 35k Health... I should have an easy time with act three... but that doesnt seem to be the case :(

Ive made 4 bucks on the RMAH so far, too bad its 'blizz bucks'. Lol

Edit:

Wasps can go kill themselves -_-

this war because of CHEATING? do that thing havent proved yet?

and yes? SoL don't like wars? all ive remember from sol is that they've love to hit an alliance every set, and they are proud of it.

see you next set MD :D.

wait wait, look at SoLs membership? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH (and MD) lol lmao rofl

So. Much. fluff.

WAR 4 EVAH UNTIL THIS GAME DIES!!!!! 13 years of suffering to an end!!!! SAVE US LORD

If you have nice rare items for DH, please give it to me :'(

i dont even get good rares for my own character let alone others.

be glad you didn't pick a melee class. for some reason I get roflstomped by a normal mob in act 3. Running with 40k hp 900 resist all and 9k armor. fluffty damage though, but if I drop defensive stats for more damage I end up dead before I get into melee range :p

im a barb with 55k hp and sometimes ill tele to someone and die as soon as i land if they are in a fight with a mob lol. i need more resist, elite mobs rape the hell out of me.

And why was laf showing that aggression? Oh opppps lets not go there now, wouldnt want things to come full circle now do we?

pot
kettle
black

lol
act 3 inferno.. with some (a lot) of help got past the lord of gluttony who had 60 million hit points and took like 20 minutes to kill. My hand hurt.. Didn't want to play act 3 anymore after that..
Back to farming act 1!
:P

Where are you guys farming in act 3? Im there with my wizard.

i actually just hit a2 hell (yeah i'm slow) on my barb, and holy crap, first elite pack and it took 5 deaths to kill 'em.
not pleasant at all :\

also...



^^ this

JIman-

How many times did SOL randomly FS multiple "nettling alliances" for no reason. errr

How many yrs? did SOL do it....to the WHOLE server. (Yes Monsters twice.)


What you are complaining about LAF doing (too a war alliance, was nothing more than a consequence, of Maksino's leadership and style of play when SOL was "not in a corner."


So, along comes Arsneal, and his hardon from 2006, and tosses you a bone. A get out of jail bone. Of course you take it. (add in LAF'a stupid war on Evo a few resets that pushed EVO to SOL..." and all of a sudden you have a chance. A chance to get out. You think.


Point being made,
THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE CHEATING.....the cheating is simply a justification for revenge.

If this doesn't work, (how many losses are PDM/MD going to take for SOL's chance to get out of Jail and Arsenal's hard on.) What will happen?


SOL will not get out of Jail (its being backed into a corner) under current leadership.
Trust with the server has been broken


Now you know I like you, I want you as Monster FA, today. I stand by that.

But you serve leadership, that FS us twice for NO reason, randomly, and then jacked around with my guys in our first yr of rebuilding. No one else on the server treated us that way.

You are your alliances leadership. I think I read that this morning. On this thread.
We saw what a Maksino led SOL does to a server when its not in a corner.

It randomly FS's alliances, for no reason, even Monsters.

Now, please note, this isn't anything I haven't told you in private, resets ago.

Omg SOL blindsides netting alliances? never! they are the moral god of the server and Makinso is jesus

Not sure I'd consider suiciders "tactically outplayed", but to each his own. You'll gladly reap the benefits of it and act like it didn't happen.

Servant speaks truth.

SOL goes on and on about how LaF deserves it due to all the FSing we've done to SOL etc. however, nobody seems to agree with them, other than the coalition they've built out of other people that dislike LaF for other reasons.

I wonder why that is?

Probably because the initial gangbang of SOL last year, and all the FSing of them subsequently, was done as a REACTION and RESPONSE rather than as a "taking initiative" event.

SOL picked on the netgaining allainces for too long, they made 2 attempts in recent history (at that point) at killing the entire server "for fun" and were planning to try a third time. That is why people decided that something needed to be done about SOL and that is why LaF stood up and said that they would they would take the lead in doing so on the netting communities behalf.

We've sued SOL for peace twice in the last 6 months and have had our hand slapped away both times. This is because SOL doesn't actually want peace, they want to win and to continue marginalizing the netgaining community as they have done in the past. Well too bad for SOL this doesn't sit well with LaF nor does it with a significant percentage of the community, which is why SOL isn't seeing much community support now or in the recent past.

This has been said multiple times over the last 18 months, but I'm sure SOL will ignore it and continue to spew their fabricated perceptions as to why they keep getting FSed, as per usual.

Servant, shutup you know nothing about me or my motivations.

If the "hard-on" you keep talking about is to play in a clean game then I'm happy to have it, for the benefit of MD and the game. I'm sorry I saw something noone else did and called it. It's not my fault LaF leaders cheated and its not my fault it made you all look like idiots for supporting them all those resets.

As always I am very happy to talk to all parties in private and have been doing so with Helmet already.

MD did not want this and all the truly informed leaders in Earth know it. We worked very hard to find compromises.

this was even more pointless than the first



GUYS, NOBODY CARES.

So, Marshal, where does LaF's unprovoked pact-voiding and FSing of EVO (twice) fit into LaF's method of "standing up and taking the lead on doing something about SOL on the netting community's behalf"?

In that case im fully expecting MD to FS EVO for abusing admin access Arsenal

When has Evo abused admin access?

Servant,


It's funny how you try to make this a hate makinso thread :-P it sounds hanlongish. Or Deitylord or basically anyone who opposed SOL for the past 6 - 7 years lol.

Just an observation I made out of reading our history boards last night and now seeing this :-).

Anyways as a response.

Everyone is posting their own interpretation of what's happening. Basically the only person who knows 100% if I'm speaking truth or not is me. Nobody else.

Likewise can be said for laf if H4 says he's 100% sure that their motivation is what they say it is only he knows the truth on that.

Everything you guys post is suggestive nothing else. So far the only person who made a true reach out to me is Sov. Kudos to sov on that as we actually managed to discuss some things properly without jerking around about it.

And Servant honestly you're better then your above posts. At least I know and seen you be better.

LOUD NOISES

Nuke:

1st reset 90% of Evo countries were openly mocking LaF. They were fully justified in hitting you then. Combine how you guys talk on the AT board it can't come as a shock to you. Also you guys were half war prepped that reset expecting to war over the country names. saying otherwise is trying to put a public spin on it.

2nd reset KJ was plotting on hitting LaF (everyone saw the logs) LaF just did the same thing using the same voidable clause you guys were planning on using on them against you.

I think any alliance here would have done the exact same thing to you.

Umm...Evo wasn't even half war-prepped. Evo expected to be hit by untagged suiciders from LaF. That was the extent of war preparations. And, as you probably don't recall, the country names were a RESPONSE to LaF's dropping members to gank Evo's triple crown the reset before. So don't pull the LaF party line in saying they were justified in hitting Evo. They were not, and just about everyone else knows it (even Hanlong knows it).

So like I ASKED...what does voiding pacts and FSing EVO have to do with taking care of SOL?

It's like you people don't even read my posts.

LOL my post isn't an interpretation of what is happening, it is what happened.

- I was there when we got the intel about SOL and RD planning to kill the server, yet again.

- I'm the one that suggested that we inform SoF of SOL/RD's plan (part of which included SOL backstabbing sof) rather than taking RD's advice to FS Evo, and I was there when we had the initial meeting/discussion with all the other alliances re: what do to about SOL and their current plan/constant harassment of netting tags.

Thus my post isn't suggestive at all, it is what happened, it is the motivation behind what LaF has been doing for the last year.

As for your question NukeEvil: LaF's wars with Evo had absolutely nothing to do with these issues. So that is where those wars with Evo fit in (e.g. they don't fit in).

Those wars were based on a different issue all together, which has been highlighted in previous posts on that subject.

SOL used those wars and Evo's anger with LaF to build the coalition that now exists today (along with MD, who also doesnt' like LaF for reasons completely unrelated to the SOL issues I discuss above).

So I see your coalition as a coalition built out of mutual dislike of LaF, but each coalitions member's reasons for disliking LaF are not the same. My post only addressed the circumstances that lead up to the ongoing conflicts with SOL.

ive still never seen any proof of this so called coalition with RD/SOL. other then people saying it was a coalition.

There was nothing to see about TC when you came back and you harped over that. I VERY much doubt you had evidence that he was still cheating even though i'm not even sure he was back when you came back and all of your posts were directed at him cheating so yah.......... Laf/MD got along great until the day you started planning :)

Don't think it lasted very long and don't think RD was as "in" with things as some other people are in with sol now :P

What do you mean see proof?

RD came to us and told us this is what the plan was. They told us that since they were allies with LaF they were throwing us a rope by warning us so we could FS Evo and stay out of the war rather than getting FSed by SOL along with everyone else (of course this would also have the added advantage for SOL/RD in not having to attack Evo and LaF, leaving the pool of peple they had to kill more managable, but RD didn't discuss that point obviously).

I don't understand your proof requirement... this is what was flat out said to us heh, and we did circulate those logs to the people involved in the gangbang discussions at that time. So I guess if it comes down to you wanting to see the logs of RD telling us all this, you should ask your leaders about it, since those details were shared back when this was all happening.

h4: first off log sharing of your FDP = very bad form and you know better. if you share logs of RD now that I'm around... ever i won't take kindly to it :)

2ndly Lime was incharge of FR back then, I've been since 9 months ago... so no we don;t have in's and outs of what happeend. I think Lime is currently playing in LCN, so maybe they know. (Lime when you coming back if you read this?)

Lastly to Pain: why coming on AT and asking for proof sf something a year ago? that most people know basically what took place... no need in bringing it up

I just want to know why MD lied in their war dec.

*crickets*

PS: I misread what Mak was saying before, so a lot of the diatribe I went into in the recent post is moot :P

This. I conquer... err concur. I'm sorry to see that you think otherwise Mr. Silver.

Not that those are the main reasons for hitting Evo from what i remember but step1) Two alliances have arguments/difficulties in set 1 step2) Alliance 2 repeatedly insults alliance 1 and then chooses a country theme to further insult alliance 1... to me that sounds like a good reason to war no matter the circumstances :P

If you think that's a reason to break a pact, then we differ in opinion locket. I've had many conversations with LaF guys about this, and it comes down to they think it's okay to break pacts because of a name theme. Well guess what, if you drop members at the end of the set, get ready to take the pressure from the community. It's low down to try and win ANW that way, and it wasn't LaF's first time they had tried in the last seconds of the set. Some Evo guys wanted to go to war with LaF over it because it wasn't a very "ally" thing to do, but the leadership said we will stand by our word and keep the pacts. It's just unfortunate that LaF didn't feel that way, and specifically it seems SS may have twisted the pact into what he wanted, because as we've argued many times before, there were definitely some issues with that pact, but SS trying to social engineer Diez to admit that the pact was void was wrong (and taken out of context). I look back at that set as the precursor to all of the fluff that has occurred now (hanlong and TC notwithstanding).

I've said it before, but I'll say it again here too (though off topic), I don't think LaF should have taken all the fluff they did from the whole "cheating scandal" but I do think they had it coming with how much dirty political stunts they had been pulling. We can disagree on that topic perhaps, but literally hanlong even admitted to me that he didn't understand why LaF backstabbed Evo on that pact, he said he was away and that SS directed the alliance in a way he wouldn't have. Breaking pacts and backstabbing alliances (even if YOU think it's valid) is not a way to make friends.

It's a good thing that LaF has as many skilled players as they do, otherwise you would have been left by the wayside without allies for some of the actions you did in previous sets. I hope SG can really turn that around, but this vendetta business (on both sides really) is not helping. The rhetoric on the forums especially is not helping. Ridiculing the other side for wanting to make peace at the end of the war? Really? It's like some people want this rivalry to continue until everyone is sick of EE and just quits. That doesn't help anyone in my opinion.

First, that was not the actual reasons. Read past threads. It was just my opinion that it is a pretty valid reason to fight and a pretty stupid thing for someone who doesn't want to fight to do. Second, I'm not reading that much text so I'm gonna go get food instead ;)

ArsenalMD...If you didn't want it! Why didn't you stay out of it?