well, yamaha, that's what I'm saying to everyone who says "defend against suiciders!" Run the numbers on what it would take to bounce that guy, assuming he has no allies.... you stop being making profit pretty quick

regardless of if pdm knew of his intentions, he used the pdm tag to gain the means to suicide others.... thus, he is pdm's responsibility,

There needs to be a middle ground though.

*Defending against suiciders = impossible

*At least having some defense for your land level and not relying almost completely on tag protection = good

*Having almost no defense to the point where a county half your size wouldn't even have to buy military to "suicide" you = very bad (yes thatguy had tons of jets, but seriously a country a week or two out of protection could have made some of those hits)

I've never said that netting countries have to be incapable of being attacked as that would negate netting and be impractical. However tag protection can't be allowed to eliminate your need for defense all together, or this game goes from being a strategic country building game to a "I'm not going to defend myself because my family runs the neighborhood" type of game.

I say shame on us (every non Laf country and alliance) for letting one family run the neighborhood to begin with...

And I'm not defending thatguy, I'm appalled that he put us in this situation with careless spontaneous suiciding.

But I'm equally appalled to now see that Laf's tag protection is so immense that some of their members are running almost defenseless. Once again, shame on us all for allowing one alliance to have this much influence over us all...

I made a big post somewhere talking about what happened when LaF DID go all out to prevent suiciding... made it our #1 priority and worked as a team to achieve it.

try to find it, i gotta head to bed :p

I read it, and I know that netters shouldn't have to go "all out" to defend against suiciders. (Because you are no longer netting if you are fully protected from suiciders)

I'm referring to members that are going all out in using tag protection as their main form of defense.

I support neither suiciders nor tag surfers...

I'll just put i'll probably not be playing next set if i'm forced to spend an entire set playing a country for someone else's benifit

I still think LaF is missing the point here.

PDM isn't really harboring suiciders; nor ar they asking you run 17mil turret defenses. I think what they're upset about is that you place all the responsibility on PDM and stick to your guns about your policies. I think that's why PDMers are upset. I think what they want to see is a reasonable resolution that doesn't require PDM disbanding or PDM being LaF's landfarm for a set or two. Asking for reps from PDM for 31kA at this point is kind of ridiculous given the fact that nearly half of them are restarts, and the other half have expended stock on the war.

If LaF is going to encourage the existence of smaller alliances, they're gong to have to show some generosity when dealing with this situation. It's unreasonable to demand for that large amount of reps given what has transpired. Granted, it has ruined some of your members' sets, but is it going to benefeit the community to have an entire alliance essentially quit because of 1 suicider? Is that what LaF wants?

(NB: I'm not affiliated with PDM in anyway)

Heh.

Earlier in the set, we began talks about disbanding or outposting.

Then after llaar's war dec, we decided to put those plans on the back shelf and continue on to next set.

After thatguy suicided and we looked at the reps, there is talk of disbanding/outright quitting.

No matter what PDM decides to do, I will run a country next set so that LaF can get at least what I can offer in way of repayment.

.....and I will run a country next set so that those same countries will be suicided on, again.

(it's a freaking joke!)

PDM shouldn't disband...

didn't my flaming harden your resolve to stick it out and keep rebuilding?

If it didn't, one of the points of it failed then :p

thatguy suiciding is the new llaar cheating

agreed, of course. just sarcastically pointing out how this situation with PDM/LaF and the hundreds of completely useless posts on the topic from all sides conveniently cast a shadow on what is a far more important issue.

of course, balin...

it's good that we have another issue to move to, though.

It's not like anyone is going to forget what happened there, as it's the biggest cheating bust in EE's history by far :p

it's up there with the elitez deletions and big 6, and people talk about that almost a decade later.

All I've seen from all these threads is people saying lag should drop the policies it daughter countless wars to implement, simply because they can't control their own members...

Can't remember if it was this thread I saw it in, but somewhere balin or someone said laf would never pay the reps we demand of other people, you wouldn't know because lad generally has a very good control over it's members and hasn't suicides pdm, but on the rare occasion anyone suicded out of laf the alliance was hansomly compensated, atleast in my 8 years in laf... Laf has always asked for what it gives, the only difference is lag doesn't complain about it because we know our obligations as an alliance to other alliances.

Wow predictive text ftw