Whether it's an untag, or faketag. People running solo suicide mission countries have no place in this game, it never had, and it definitely shouldn't exist in our current tiny player base.

From that guy that is harassing MDers IRL, to people land killing for fun, or the people that are out to ruin other people's resets for fun. And now we have real alliance members restart their countries as untags.

These people should not be allowed to play in such a way that is hurting the player base, every reset we are losing players because of these selfish, immoral actions.

What Alliance server, should be, about Alliances.

If you are tagged as A, your restart must be tagged A in order to receive restart bonuses.
Or disable tag jumping, you join a tag, you stay in that tag until next reset.
Or just not allow countries to exit protection without being tagged with a registered tag.

do something.

http://earthgraphs.com/...ll&countrygraph=alive

while you're at it, don't forget to get rid of landtrading and intra-landtrading also.

-Get rid of ghosty
-You cannot grab your own members

Problem solved

Lol. Speak for yourself most all that fluff. There must be a way to say fluff off to leaders and an alliance. Take that bernie sanders commi fluff somewhere else.

Don't farm them into the ground and they might stop seeking revenge.

I think leaders and members of tags should really look introspectively at this problem. A lot of habitual cheaters/suiciders are not only welcomed but praised within big clans because they can add to the total networth. We can talk about these problems all day long on AT, but until we stop giving carrots to low integrity players, it won't stop.

Sometimes you need to look at your individual alliance members and leaders.

I cannot help but think that this thread is directed towards me, or towards people who are playing on this server in a similar manner. And in a way, I can understand why the people who are negatively affected by my actions would want me gone. I am not playing the game as other players, even admins, intended me to play. I have single-handedly killed about 15 countries this reset, and I'm sure the players of those countries do not like the way I play the game. However, I am playing the game well within the rules and capabilities set forth by the admins and moderators. And I'm fine with it.

You see, Forgotten, I was once a member of an alliance, just like yourself. I made the required daily logins, I played my turns, I followed (most of) the rules set forth by my alliance leadership. I even went so far as to help create a website for that alliance so it could continue to flourish, despite setbacks on their former site. I helped keep both membership and leadership together whenever I could, and pointed out some things that were happening that should not have been happening where I could not--the alliance had been plagued with suiciders (from without as well as within), unacceptable leaders (Kingme can probably vouch for what I did to one of them), and other undesirable elements that I was constantly trying to weed out. Sure, some of the leadership did not like my methods of rooting out trouble, but I did what needed to be done. That alliance also had some advantages that other alliances did not have, mostly due to the tools I helped build as well as the leadership willing to use those tools. The alliance was already the best netting alliance on this server, and it was on its way to becoming the largest alliance on the server. Things were just starting to look up, and I was thinking of just kicking back and letting someone else do all my work for me.

I think you know where this is going. Another alliance (your alliance, I believe) thought itself to be the best netting alliance on the server, and we were constantly at odds with them--I probably have some blame there, as well, for the time I wasted on AT reminding others of our superiority. Once our alliance started eclipsing even their membership count, this other alliance broke a pact and struck my alliance down. It soon became a campaign to cause our membership to dwindle through resets of attrition, and they used their allies to help accomplish this. When I realized that not enough alliances cared about the sanctity of a pact to help correct the wrong that had been visited upon us, I became disgusted with the game. When I realized that this same alliance would get to keep their allies despite leadership being caught cheating whilst doing so, well, you can only imagine what feelings I had towards this game. I was once again reminded that cheaters prosper and even flourish in this game, and there would be no hope of my alliance ever regaining its momentum. All the work I had put into my alliance was for nothing. My feelings were only confirmed when another alliance was fully deleted for cheating in a similar manner a reset or so later, so I left Alliance and washed my hands of alliance membership.

And now, my former alliance is just a whisper of what it once was, and the alliance that cheated to win is still winning today. However, the tactics and the gameplay used to achieve such high standing has caused the game's membership to dwindle even further. The pond is shrinking, and nothing will ever bring it back. And I don't care, because I no longer have an interest in playing this game as I did before. Back then, I had responsibilities, I had a purpose, I had hope that someday, the alliances in this game would wise up and see that their activities against "lesser" players would ultimately cause their own demise. Unfortunately, this has shown to not be the case, and I am glad for it. I have been enlightened, and I feel that I am a better player because of the actions that alliance took against my own. I suppose I should thank your alliance and its allies for what they did, saving me from putting too much more time into this game and all. But, I realized back then that it'd just be more fun to kill every country I can before the admins finally turn the lights off.

I agree with this sentiment.



I think the suggestion here is to change the "rules and capabilities set forth by the admins and moderators". Although that might belong on the Bugs and Suggestions Board.

Here are some additional thoughts:

On tag registration - I don't know what this means. I can see some positives but I don't know how it would actually work. Today any country can create a tag. What would change with the idea of "registration"? Some minimum # of countries to start a tag? Some rl info associated with a clan account?

On detagging... In the system you envision, I think it makes sense to allow people to "tag jump" from one tag to another. I think the part that you are trying to avoid is "detagging" to a "untagged" state.

On restarting - if I read your suggestion correctly, anyone can restart and tag up with whomever they wish before exiting protection, but they only get restart bonuses if they tag up with the same tag they died under? Is that correct?



This doesn't make any sense to me. The server is filled with untagged bots that are intended to be farmed into the ground. A player might not even know the difference between a bot and a player today.

Forgotten - what would you do about bots in your hypothetical? Would they go away or be tagged under "BOT" or something?

Personally, I don't see any of these changes happening. I think this game/community is just too far gone to care about the griefing and harassment. It is now a troll's paradise here.

Land killing a country as soon as that country comes out of protection after only investing approx 125 turns seems like a complete waste of time.....especially when that killed off country restarts with another country which is almost the same size prior to being killed

but if it helps get your rocks off.....to each his own I guess =)

If you can't tell the difference between a bot and a real Player, you shouldn't be grabbing. It is stupid easy.

While I agree with the general sentiment here, the country which prompted Forgotten to post on this subject was not farmed by LaF. It had been killed as part of a policing action (after ABing two different Stones members). We then killed the restart, but not in an organized fashion, allowing it time to AB two of our members.

I've been playing in LaF for about a year now, and can honestly say that I'm impressed with the efforts (mostly successful) of the leadership to get people to NOT farm real players. A couple of members routinely ignore the leadership on this issue, and when one of their victims hits them back, they're on their own. The "suicider" (which I would call a retributioner) does not end up on the kill list if he only hits back at his tormentor.



In the vast majority of cases this is true. However, we've noted a couple people so far this reset that were doing a pretty good job of imitating bots. If the bots' patterns are easily recognizable, that also means it is possible to imitate those patterns.

Now to Forgotten's point.. I've long held that "suiciders" are good for this game, and I still believe so. It is ridiculous for countries that will be ending with 250+million net worth and 80k+ acres to be running on less than a million turrets and 0 tanks. Lone wolves should not be eliminated IMO, but there are some things that should be changed:

Humanitarians: They're pointless on this server. If you need protection, you tag up. There should not be a dynamic present on this server which allows people to stock up for an assault in absolute safety.

Networth-based attack results: I've hated these ever since Mehul implemented them. If a successful AB takes down 3% of one country's buildings, it should take down 3% of any country's buildings, regardless of the victim's and attacker's relative networths. There should not be a case where a country is able to level 3% of his victims' buildings per attack, but when he is hit back with the same attack type, he loses only 1%. That's just stupid.

"Suiciders" don't need to be eliminated, but neither should they enjoy any kind of special protections.

I agree with Untagged Hunter that ghost acres should be eliminated. They kill competition and I think contribute greatly to the boredom that chases many people from this game. But eliminating the free land sources that make this game little more than a spreadsheet exercise would do nothing to eliminate "suiciding". In fact, I'm guessing you'd see more people going rogue without these lame dynamics, as alliances would once again be forced to take a risk and take land from other real players.

How can I find this info SAM? I don't see any outside attacks on Stones since 5/12, I even went back to the 11th and found nothing. On who and when did these attacks happen? Was it days before they were policing? I'm I supposed to go back further than the 11th or 12th when they actually declared to be policing? So many questions but looks like Laf killed a player for hits prior to 5/12 when they became a policing force. Is that accurate? If yes that is not an untags fault to attack.

those spreadsheets are pretty hard to make :P

anyway the point of the nw based returns is to make killing up easier than down and stop wars getting completely one sided

as the nw gap gets bigger the leading tag starts killing less, and the losing side kills quicker but usually not more

pretty much every phase of the game has resulted in a equilibrium of attacker:defender in nw, it was 3:1 for a long time and got a lot higher but has now come back with the restart mechanics

it would be interesting to see what things looked like if the land gains formula was applied to special attacks and spy ops though

it hasnt been tried since restart mechanics i dont think

to ghost acres, the original point of that was to allow growth in the game in land sizes

theres other ways to do it, such as have lots of bots exploring, but its not a problem in itself

there were times when landtrading got popular previously and i can remember two things that changed that, cs losses were raised, and ghosts were taken away

cs losses is a much more elegant solution, and there is no reason it couldnt be even more elegant

by tying losses to what size in land and nw country grabs you, you could make trading slightly less efficient

if someone much bigger than you hit you youd lose less cs than if someone roughly your size hit you

the other reason to be reluctant about changing ghost acres is the nw ghost formula which also causes small people to lose less than big people, it doesnt give big people more

there used to be a lot of new and bad players getting farmed, but the reason they wern over farmed as much was the number of people grabbing compared to the number of countries being grabbed

and the tolerance for being grabbed was higher, when i started i didnt mind being hit 3 times a day, and the only thing that really annoyed people was double taps, it was considered rude and there were plenty of other countries to grab instead

but what really made it work was the many many multies and bots, many multies run by individual players for landfarms, many bots just passive, and some doing things like market manipulation and some just their in case someone used a bot on you, and some used aggresively

the ones used aggressively drove a lot of people away but overall they allowed the game to feel less incestuous

the single biggest thing we can do for untagged and new players and to limit landtradings desirability is keep increasing bots over and over again

the impression i get is there is x amount of bots running on the game server total and they are split up by game type

so maybe there is a limit to how many the server can support but i dont think it should be this low

May 03/16 9:29:01 PM AB WHY (#461) (Howdy) The Wizard of Ozzy (#445) (STONES) 60 B

May 09/16 12:53:53 AM AB WHY (#461) (Howdy) natallia (#425) (STONES) 190 B

2 ab runs on stones

May 13/16 11:00:33 AM NM WHY (#461) (Howdy) superskunkorangehairX100 (#195) (Omega100) 821 A
May 13/16 11:00:14 AM CM WHY (#461) (Howdy) superskunkorangehairX100 (#195) (Omega100) 10790 C/442 B

cm and nm retals on omega

May 13/16 4:06:24 PM PS WHY (#461) (Howdy) Parthia (#221) (Omega100) 1242 A (+526 A)
May 13/16 4:05:54 PM PS WHY (#461) (Howdy) Meh (#412) (Omega100) 1035 A (+598 A)

topfeeds on omega as retals presumably

but keep in mind 461 has also been doing harmful spy ops on laf before laf started killing it so really the issue is kind of moot

Ok well if harmful ops were done prior to the kill run than the kill run makes sense. But on boxcar looks like #461 started attacking Laf after his kill run was started. Are you guys sure the harmful ops were not also started after the kill run was started on him as well? Omega has nothing in this matter and I originally did not go back to 5/3 that was 1 week prior to Stones even getting in a war.

So unless harmful ops were done prior to the kill run it is justified. However if they were done after it looks like Laf got the shorter end of the stick. But the attacks on Stones were still well before Laf was a policer or before Stones were even in a War. But you are correct this is a moot topic now.

not a lot just a couple before, more after

anyway policing is in some ways more about freeing up someone to focus on a war

md declared policing before laf did

http://www.earthempires.com/...stones-39672?t=1462761436
May 9th 2016, 1:00:20

May 09/16 12:56:57 AM AB WHY (#461) (Howdy) natallia (#425) (STONES) Defence Held

last hit of those 2 ab runs was 3 minutes before md announced policing

but the country is an untagged suicider, stones had a valid reason to kill him, they were otherwise occupied with evo and elders and asked laf to do it

perhaps it was unneeded as from a stones perspective it had left them alone for 4 days and was now in dispute with omega

your in omega im not sure?

the farming hits by omega in the middle of the laf killrun are kind of funny

if it was a laf thing to begin with i would have set it to kill when it first ab'd but possibly left it if for some reason it left us alone for 4 days

i find it funny if the suiciders argument is 'hey i suicided them not you, you cant help them' after it grabbed omega countries that didnt grab it

May 03/16 9:25:10 PM $92,486 1,002 Monarchy No
country was created then

2016-05-03 18:04 The Wizard of Ozzy (#445) [Stones] Ok (#455) [People] SS 4A (+16A)
and is maybe a restart of this country which died 3 hours before, given it attacked the country that killed that one for no other visible reason

016-05-03 01:57 natallia (#425) [Stones] Ok (#455) [People] NM 47A
which is even more likely given 425 was the second country 461 abd

ok so 455 was created
2016-05-01 03:15 368 Ok (#455) 910 249,473 M P Alive N L R P A

not sure what happened before that though

Split Personality (#320) (Herbal)
Golden EYE (#451) (Nooooo)
Ok (#455) [People]
WHY (#461) [Howdy]
Revenge for my civs (#498) [WarnedU]
LeaveMeBe ILeaveU Be (#502) [Urwarned]

should all be the same player

Thanks enshula looks like you are on key. You should change your name to inpector gadget lol

May 01/16 2:20:11 AM GS The Wizard of Ozzy (#445) (STONES) Golden EYE (#451) (Nooooo) 4 C/12 F

ok he was this before

Apr 30/16 5:58:36 PM AB Golden EYE (#451) (Nooooo) Legends Live Forever (#105) (STONES) 166 B

which started by abing stones

created
Apr 30/16 1:45:10 AM $822,903 3,037 Monarchy No

i think its previous country was this one
Apr 30/16 1:40:26 AM GS CrazyClowns (#246) (STONES) Split Personality (#320) (Herbal) 1 C/0 F

who ironically started by retal topfeeding omega
Apr 14/16 7:45:44 PM PS Split Personality (#320) () 100 Alpha Countries (#258) (Omega100) 184 A (+68 A)
Apr 14/16 7:44:38 PM PS Split Personality (#320) () 100 Alpha Countries (#258) (Omega100) Defence Held

randomly decides to attack a country messing with lcn
Apr 27/16 3:46:37 PM BR Split Personality (#320) (Herbal) The Doomed Dimension (#410) () 804 C/8 B
Apr 27/16 3:24:24 PM AB The Doomed Dimension (#410) () MCS (#244) (LCNostra) 119 B

then retaliatory topfeeds stones
Apr 28/16 5:05:38 PM PS Split Personality (#320) (Herbal) Legends Live Forever (#105) (STONES) 1137 A (+164 A)
Apr 28/16 4:15:00 AM PS Split Personality (#320) (Herbal) Legends Live Forever (#105) (STONES) 1383 A (+111 A)
Apr 28/16 2:44:27 AM PS Shocking (#301) (STONES) Split Personality (#320) (Herbal) 528 A (+373 A)

stones start farming and chemming
Apr 29/16 2:37:59 AM CM Undertaker (#23) (STONES) Split Personality (#320) (Herbal) 10458 C/299 B
Apr 29/16 2:04:26 AM SS I M GROOT (#37) (STONES) Split Personality (#320) (Herbal) Defence Held

and this is when 320 starts abing stones
Apr 30/16 12:03:37 AM AB Split Personality (#320) (Herbal) TigOlBitties (#87) (STONES) 292 B

Apr 13/16 1:25:10 PM $5,386 100 Monarchy No
country was created

i think that was his first country started 4 days late unless one of these 3 peple probable landkilled by nukevil, but im not going to bother checking restarted as him

low (#59) sol
Retry (#7) untagged
InfidelSoF (#29) sof

Ok I'm officially lost but looks like a battle that started between Stones and untagged. Lots of stuff in the middle and than player killed by Laf. Untagged hits LAF back. I think I got it. Enshula I do not know how you search that far back but good job investigating.

enshula uses magic only logical deduction.

If I was FR, I would never have policed for stones under any circumstances whatsoever. I don't care how much LaF dislikes Evo. It cost us more than it anyone else.

So that was you?

fluff off you troll. This is Alliance game, fight as an alliance.

Untags aren't farmed to the ground, look at news all set, most of the suiciders targets alliance, not the other way around.
People farm bots, not untag players, and those that can't tell the difference don't farm anyways.

How is this related at all? If you have something against an alliance, get your alliance to fight against it.

Heck, form your own alliance and fight it.

But suiciding as untag/restarts is the topic here.

But your not....sooooo what now

This adds nothing to the topic, we're talking about the alliance game, if you have something against someone, take the grudge to Alliance vs Alliance level

You can think what you want, land killing is probably fine just for fluffs and giggles at people who have no defense OOP as untag or whatever baiting retals. Why not tag yourself up to play solo? Or look at how C R O A T I A was able to play solo for so long and have relative success. I don't know which one is your country, nor do I really care, at least you aren't targeting people as far as I know?



You weren't in LaF though, so your claims here are false.




Lets stay on topic here, that has nothing to do what this topic is about, and EVO broke the pact, not LaF.
If you are talking about Alliance warfare and politics, hey, that's part of the game within the game.
Actually, I think you are a bit mixed up regarding keeping allies.
EVO losing members is their own fault. Recruitment and keeping membership loyalty is part of the Alliance game that the leadership has to play, harder than the actual game itself.
RD had history, and a lot more of them were involved, and actual hacking was done.



If this game isn't worth your time, then the door is ----> that way.
If you want to participate as a real member of the Alliance Server, then why not get EVO back to where it was, or create your own alliance. I wouldn't even care what you do, except for the fact that hiding as untags is a dishonorable thing.

You missed the entire point of the thread.

Yes, restart bonuses should only be given if you tag up with your own tag and maybe not allow changing tags within a certain amount of turns.

I didn't think of the no-detag state, but yes, if someone is switching tags, then switch tags instead of going detag-retag.

Bots have special identifiers that is easily found, wouldn't need a tag themselves. If no untags are real players, then all untags are bots in the future

enshula posted too much for me to quote.

Networth based GS/BR/AB results should be in ALLIANCE warfare, that is why untags shouldn't have privilege to this

I PMed qzjul a suggestion where GS/BR/AB returns strength should be : Tagged country /10.

Average networth is calculated as 10 members minimum, so I guess that's a mark that the game considers an alliance being an alliance. so why not have that? If your tag has less than 10, your GS/AB/BR strength is lowered.
Combining forcing real players to be tagged, this lowers the effectiveness of someone wanting to suicide, but solo players playing for real won't be hurt as much, as it doesn't affect SS/PS.

Smaller real alliances would have incentive to work together, whether joint tag during war or merging all together.
This would create a better environment for the game and more competitive.

I'm not going to argue semantics with you.

How is what I said - big alliance leaders welcome and praise suiciders, not related to your topic of "suicididing as untag/restarts"??

Am I being punked here? *looks for the cameras*

Even alliance leaders will look past suiciding if they can add to the final bottom line in NW. The known cheaters/suiciders aren't even being punished. Why are you pretending to offer "solutions" to the problem you have absolutely no intention of fixing? If you have something against it, then start fixing it on your end.

Heck, form your own alliance and fight against it.

Get rid of these cheaters/suiciders and make sure they know the penalty for doing such activity will not be overlooked if you can get top 50's in the clan. It is sending them mixed signals to get on here and complain about them them to the rest of AT, then get to your site and praise them for doing it..

Try not to take him too seriously. Forgotten is just being a whiny child because his beloved alliance or whatever is suffering the consequences of its actions. He also completely missed the point of my post, which was to tell him exactly why I play the way I do now. Nothing suggested in this thread will ever be implemented, so this thread is ultimately pointless.

i played with the UnClanned for years, we played with a different rules, different end game. untagged/Unclanned/suiciders/solo players are about the only thing that kept this game from becoming a full on economy simulator.

Dirty Tree Huggers

This post is really long and boring to read, real issue here is "defend your land better" you do this, baby countries cant hurt you. Everyone wants to run 500k turrets no troops no tanks no gdi. Live with your choices

You can run 1m tanks and 10 turrets, and a suicider staying at 3k acres for 3 weeks can still turn you into a parking lot.

@NukEvil, I was netgaining for real for the first time, had a good, if not great shot at #1 being a casher with more land, and better tech levels than farmers.

So no, I'm not being whiny, I'm posting something real, a shot at a #1, which you wouldn't understand, EVO only had so few wins.

I would suicide laf myself if I play as untagged. You guys killed this great strategy game.

Suicide are fun. Wiping out 2k buildings per hit must feels like orgasm.

Is that it? Is that why you created this thread? Oh, boo hoo, your perfect widdle country got an owiee and now you won't rank #1 at the end of the reset. My heart bleeds for you. My time is bleeding worse, tho. What a waste.

LOL, if suiciders are causing people to leave, than they really were not that much into a so called war game to begin with. Besides I think farming untags to death is prolly bigger cause of people leaving the game than suiciders, which once again doubt they are really that much into war game.

However, I am pretty much in agreement with Sam. Suiciders are and should be a part of the game. Just because they did not get farmed THIS set, does not mean they did not get farmed to death in set prior. Or it could be result from other things as is apparent in this particular case. In theory it should keep the alliances in check to some degree, which does not seem to happen much around here, among other things. Ghost acres and Land trading just seem counter intuitive to possibly leading up to some disagreement and potential war.

You guys are missing the whole point,

Tag X with 10 members decided that they didn't like tag Y with 100 members doing something, they declare war, and get pummelled. This is alliance warfare.

Scenario 1)
Person A from tag X decides to play as untag and hide among the bots and suicide tag Y, this isn't alliance warfare, this is just some coward who wants to ruin someone's day.

Scenario 2) Person A from tag X decides that he hates tag Y so bad, he forms his own tag, tag Z and gets others to join him to fight tag Y every reset, this is alliance warfare.

Scenario 2 is what resulted in STONES .. sorry think I will pass.

Scenario 3) Person A does not like the negotiated result between his tag X and tag Y, which is no surprise since clan policies have become so stagnant and most wars really dont even have a reason anymore. So person A decides to go rogue, get some revenge. Knowing in the end nothing would have changed, whether they picked scenario 1 or 2 or 3, but at least with Scenario 3 they get to feel better for short lil while until things go back to same ol' humdrum. It breaks the monotony for them plus the tag(s) they decide to suicide against.

The game mechanics have always been FUBAR. Untaggeds aren't doing a war. They're griefing. They're taking advantage of messed up game mechanics that allow a player to wreck a month of two of another player's hard work without provocation, and with the other player to be unable to defend themself against a dedicated griefer.

If we scrapped the humanitarians rule and the 99 turns protection rule and let people landkill countries within minutes of being created, would you defend it as being "just part of a war game"? Humanitarians and 99 turns of protection are some basic rules against griefing. But there's still a HUGE capability for griefing in this extremely flawed game. There's a difference between a legit war and griefing.

The suiciders are not suiciding because they've been farmed as untaggeds. And we all know this. They're suiciding because of political jealousies about the way one alliance treats other alliances (or just because one alliance does better than other alliances). And they're too cowardly to settle it through alliance to alliance conflict. But it's never about the way untaggeds are treated. It's always about the alliance politics.

And why should players be forced to settle it the way *you* want it to be settled--in a manner that guarantees your victory and the utter defeat of the other? The only reason you want it settled alliance vs. alliance is because you know that, not only will your alliance ultimately win the conflict, but also your foreign policy requires the demoralization of the alliance or alliances fighting against you for there to be peace. You know that either your allies will bail you out of a sad situation, or someone in your leadership will do something he or she should not be doing to give your alliance the advantage, and no one will be in a position or will even want to punish your alliance for it. What's the point of fighting an enemy who insists on breaking the rules of the game to win? What's the use of fighting a multi-reset campaign when there's only 430 countries left and membership is bleeding out because they're tired of fighting the same wars over the same issues with the same people? Why should people play this game the way you think it should be played when everyone knows they have no chance of winning or even getting ahead? What's the point of organizing an alliance to fight you when history has shown that the alliances that did fight you have ended up withering and dying, and there are so few players left to recruit from because the architecture of this game is based off an early 90s BBS game?

Suiciders and "lone wolves" are here to stay. They are just as much a part of the Alliance server as the alliances themselves. And I'm afraid that as time goes on and more players inevitably leave due to boredom and "alliance politics", the number of people coming back for a reset or two and playing "for fun" will only gradually increase. Is your alliance ready for that?

I wouldn't recommend using words like "always". Some suiciders are purely in it for the power trip or fluffs&giggles.

*OUCH* FORD, DON'T DO THAT early in the morning you DOUCHE!

I just passed out reading actual good advice coming from Ford and I hadn't yet had any coffee, now my freaking head hurts from banging it on the desk.

Hello? This is called the ALLIANCE SERVER?

Ignoring bots, there's only 250 or so real players left. If you are still hung on something that happened years ago, those guys haven't played in LaF since the incident, and we lost many more. Why don't you guys go to HLW IRL, oh wait, you assholes did.

If you really believe that LaF bullies their way into the current state of server, why hasn't the rest of the server gang banged LaF out of existence? Why do our allies stick with us?

I'm tired of you Nukevil, go cry somewhere else because your precious efforts with EVO couldn't stick because the incompetence of the EVO leadership in their ability to keep members.

Suiciders have no place in this game.
Lone wolfs may, if they play like an alliance by itself.