Same rate DR, blid, as if you was gettn hit 3x, the retaler gets to retal as if the DR was 0 until it matches however hits the guy did on you.

No KoH, I think it should just be one time. My simple mechanism is probably easier to implement, and would also prevent abuse. Because, if for every single hit there is another DR-free retal, look at Xinhuan's earlier examples. A hits B, B hits A, A hits B, B hits A, and they can land trade forever without DR ever kicking in for ghost acres, plus other possible flaws. So that's the safest way to do it I can think of.

Honestly, DR works fine the way it is. I think in express, it just needs to drop off in 4 hours instead of 24 and lower the amount of turn a country can store. That way a country cannot artificially fall behind, and then catch back up instantly. Being able to run 1080 turns in one day is not a good thing when you only get 1800 turns the whole set.

DR abuse manifested from the 10x speed of the game while the DR time remain the same. All you need to do is lower DR time. Look at primary, tourney, etc... nobody can abuse DR.

The problem with fixing DR is that you create a synthetic retal advantage. You shouldn't be allowed to have any type of advantage for a retal. Almost all retals are higher than the initial attacks. Express is the only server where it's common to retal for 10x the land lost.

Well ya, the ideal scenerio is to NOT give away the FS :)

Blid, your suggestion would probably work, other than the 1-sided feeding of land from a smaller country to a bigger one.

That is, country A (in large DR because it is small) hits B say 3x and fails all 3, B retals 3x for max gains, repeat.

Whatever implementation the new DR rules has, it has a new way to exploit it. DR abusers would simply migrate to the new way of exploiting DR - in this case, exploiting the lack of DR on retals.

Fortunately, for this specific case though, it is easily fixable - it should only count attacks that are _successful_ PSes and SSes for both sides and the difference in number of attacks determines if 0-DR-retal rules apply.

This obviously doesn't stop landtrading though... But land trading is not always beneficial, and is easily spotted.

In the end though I determined only ONE hit could be retaliated on without DR. So you can't shuttle much land from a small country to a larger one or trade much land that way. The only way for the DR heavy country to gain unfair land in exchanges would be to multi-tap, and once they do that, they can be taken down.

I disagree with most of your opinions here... It's certainly logical that since the game moves at faster pace, that leads to DR abuse, and DR should be shorter. But then the newbies could get hit 5 times every 4 hours, that's 30 times a day. I'm not sure how this would work in practice, it could make them all quit. Or, maybe after being hit 10 times with no or little DR protection, they'd have so little land the hits would stop. But overall I think it's risky as it's a change that could have major effects.

Second point about 1080 turns in a day, well, I agree that's not right. I always have said turn cap should be 270 (180). But I don't see the fit there with DR.

Third, yes, in Express retals are often huge compared to initial hits. But that doesn't mean people should have no chance to get their land back when they get hit! When JJ and Seth abuse DR they usually top and mid feed, attacking countries they know could retal but who cannot because of DR abuse. The "synthetic retal advantage" must be created as, otherwise, a country with 1m turrets can attack a country with 2m jets, and the jet country can't even get their land back.

lowering DR time only hurts late starters. it allows them to lose even more land to bottom feeders.

tduog: maybe read earlier posts before you post. And have you got a country yet?