Focus, I need some answers


Azz Kikr told me to give it some time, and he'd get me some answers. Those answers have not come. I talked with Pain shortly after the FS, and his version of events makes you guys look very very bad. I messaged Crippler and told him that Pain's version of events did not make Focus look good, and asked for his side. He has not replied to me.

Azz Kikr has not helped either, and has basically disappeared.

I wanted to conduct this in private, but since Azz Kikr and Crippler have not tried to resolve it in private, and Pain only made things worse the one time he talked to me, and no one at all from Focus has talked to me in a week, despite my attempts to work things out in private, we will be doing it on FFAT.


So here goes:

At the start of the set, Focus knew that Mercs was planning to hit CC. This was common knowledge.

1) At the start of the set, Mercs knew that Focus was planning to hit IMP. What Mercs did not know is that Focus pacted IMP, and designed the pact in such a way that the pact would be voided once IMP hit Mercs, and that the only other way to void the pact would be if IMP willingly chose to fight a 1v1 against Focus and allowed Mercs to netgain. Is this correct?

2) Focus signed a pact with IMP, while offering them a 1v1, and despite IMP's reputation, and the lack of even an informal agreement from IMP to a 1v1, Focus did not feel the need to include a formal agreement to a 1v1 in their pact. Is this correct?

3a) Focus' primary plan for the set was that IMP would fight a 1v1 with Focus, and that IMP would never hit Mercs. Is this correct?

3b) Focus' primary plan for the set was that IMP would not have the guts to fight a 1v1 with Focus, and that Focus would hit IMP after IMP hit Mercs. Or is this correct?

4) Focus did not expect Mercs to war CC so early, to finish the war with such little damage from CC, and to grow so quickly after the war. They expected IMP to hit Mercs at a time when Mercs was bloodied and weak, not when Mercs had already been asking over a week for permission to FS IMP if Focus wasn't going to do it (not knowing that Focus had pacted IMP). Is this correct?

5) Focus pacted IMP, and then spent their whole set planning to hit IMP despite pacting them, without a backup plan in place incase they were unable to have a war with IMP. Is this correct?

6a) Focus was told by IMP that IMP would fight a 1v1 with Focus, and that IMP would not hit Mercs. Therefore, when Mercs asked Focus to hit IMP, or to let them hit IMP, Focus was telling the truth when they told Mercs that IMP was not going to hit Mercs. Is that correct?

6b) Or did Focus tell Mercs that IMP had no plans to hit them, without actually knowing that to be the case?

7) Mercs pressured Focus into lying to them, by stating that being a sacrificial lamb that would get FSd by IMP to start a 1v1 between IMP and Focus was unacceptable. And therefore, that unless Focus could confirm that IMP had no plans to hit Mercs, that Focus ought to permit Mercs to FS IMP. Is that correct?

8a) When IMP FSd Mercs, no one on FFA was surprised, except for Focus. Is that correct?

8b) If so, how were you the only ones dumb enough to not see that coming?




I've got more questions, but that will do for now. I'm just grasping for straws here. I don't know whats going on, and I do want to know whats going on.

I want to know why our ally denied us the right to FS an alliance twice our size that we correctly thought might have plans to hit us. We warned you for weeks that we were worried about IMP, and you never once took our worries seriously.




It is possible that some of the conclusions I have drawn are incorrect. I'm not sure how intentional Focus' actions were. But since you guys won't talk to me, maybe you'll stop ignoring me now that I've posted this on FFAT.

8a) When IMP FSd Mercs, no one on FFA was surprised, except for Focus. Is that correct?

I was surprised.

IMP had no plans to hit Mercs until a few days before the FS

i believe we were going to hit Focus, but you kept running your mouth. (not starting an argument, just stating fact)


as for the pact, the conditions were that if would be voided if we hit ANY of their DP's

Rockman youre an idiot. there was no elaborate scheme to this whole thing. you need to either leave your 1a backstabbing theories in 1a or stay out of politics here. Azz knows the deal, i spoke with him several times.

the fact is i was told IMP planned to hit you, i added a clause in the pact to prevent it so you could have your war with CC. i did this simply to look out for mercs interest.

IMP knew that hitting you would void the pact, i had no idea they planned on doing so. why would i have any reason to believe they would hit you?

why would i let you hit them after i made a clause in the pact voiding it if they hit you? so it could look like i protected you on so you could be able to hit them?

i dont need to explain to you why i pacted IMP. they asked for a pact so they could take care of some business, as long as it didnt have to do with hitting you or PAN i had no reason to care why and i was told that they would infact be willing to war us later in the set. i had no reason not to because i wanted them to get the FS anyways so being pacted had no bearing as we werent going to hit them first (unless the pact was voided)

if youre going to call me a liar and a backstabber then just do so straight up instead of trying to dream up some elaborate scenario to justify your anger and there will be no reason for focus and mercs to have any further relations past this set. seems like what you want at this point.

heck even i have to back IMP on this one....

the amount of crap being spewed would of wanted anyone to FS you...

So your way of protecting Mercs is to put a clause in Focus' pact with IMP which voids Focus' pact with IMP if IMP hits Mercs, but does not actually do anything to prevent IMP from hitting Mercs (because IMP's pact with Focus being voided doesn't bother them).

But then you use that clause as a reason to keep Mercs from FSing IMP? Something which conveniently ensures that you'll get your 1v1 with IMP, because if Mercs FSd IMP, you don't get your 1v1.

Your way of protecting your ally is ensuring that they get FSd rather than being able to do the FS. That's a really fluffed up way of protecting your ally.

As I said, talking with you doesn't paint Focus in a good light.

Bsnake - I'm not criticizing IMP. In fact, I've said that their FS was expected by Mercs. It was the assurance of Focus that IMP wouldn't FS us, and the warning that we should not interfere with their plans for a 1v1 with IMP that caused us to be unprepared for a war.

There isn't an IMP's side in this. Its Rockman v Focus, since Azz Kikr has completely disappeared, rather than try to explain to me why I shouldn't be mad at Focus.

believe what you want. im done arguing with you.

its ok im drunk... after i got through all the post i wanted to delete my post lol...

maybe he assumed that knowing that Focus would hit them if they hit merc was enough to make them not hit you rockman :P

thank you, locket.

So if thats the case, Focus gets their 1v1 with IMP, IMP gets to kill Mercs, and IMP gets an excuse for why they couldn't beat Focus in a 1v1, and Mercs gets screwed. So everyone's happy but Mercs. How exactly is that a deterrent to Focus and IMP?

i'll make this short, simple and to the point :

1. Maybe
2. Maybe
3.(a/b) Maybe
4. Maybe
5. Maybe
6.(a/b)Maybe
7. Maybe
8. (a/b) Maybe

I think that about sum up my official response to you rockman.

Focus has not, does not and will not ever have full disclosure as to what our plans are, were or could of been. This post, as well as your initial post after being FS is about as juvenile as they come in my eyes.

Instead of asking FoCuS why they defended you, ask yourself Why you got Hit.

'Nuff Said
Crippler

I know why we got hit, and I don't mind our enemies hitting us. What I do mind is our friends lying to us to make sure we don't hit our enemies.

I'm not complaining about IMP hitting us. I'm complaining about you lying and backstabbing to make sure we didn't hit IMP and ruin your plans.

Us getting screwed and you guys getting the war you wanted is your way of "defending us." How exactly has Focus defended us? By getting "revenge" on an alliance that declared on us with good reason to? By ensuring that we were decimated rather than having a fair fight? Thats how you "defended" us.

Funny, I thought Mercs controlled Mercs destiny, not FoCuS.


Just saying.

Rockman, do you need me to post the logs of you telling me that you guys wouldnt have hit IMP until the weekend AFTER they hit you to refresh your memory?

the result would have been the same whether i told you to go ahead with it or not.

Right, so threatening to FS us if we hit IMP, thats not affecting our destiny?

It depends on when you had given us the goahead. I don't know when I first asked you to let us FS IMP, but I'm pretty sure it was long enough ago that if you had immediately given us the goahead, we would have FSd IMP before they hit us.

I've said it a million times rockman...

For a smart dude, you sure are fluffing stupid.


Just keep your mouth shut and none of this fluff would happen.

it was a few days before. you wouldnt have beat them to it.

you really need to talk to azz before you make yourself look any stupider. just some friendly advice.

i never pegged you for stupid though. just think about me telling you we would FS you if you hit IMP, think that logic through thoroughly and then come back and tell me why it was stupid of you to even post that.

Rockman, there is a reason why ppl dont solve "political/ally" questions on the FFAT..

You dont know me, and i only know of you..

You're a great netgainer, but this is stupid and drags Mercs rep down the drain. You will probably run your mouth everytime you get hit, and questioning everyone but yourself.

An advise take this fluff in private, where it belongs.

^ This. I told Pain weeks ago that IMP would likely set up an arranged war with them - I was completely truthful in this response. FoCuS had no reason to believe that IMP would hit you when we arranged our pact or discussed our arranged war. Your attitude is what changed the plan. Not that it is any of your business how FoCuS or IMP pacts, I will go ahead and tell you that we pacted FoCuS on 8/12 (from PM logs). IMP made the decision to hit you on 8/24 (from council board) and the first hit on Mercs was on 8/31 (from news).



PS: I can't believe you created this thread to bash the alliance that not only pacted in a fashion to protect your plans, but declared on us in your defense. I don't really like FoCuS but...what the hell is wrong with you?

Hmmmm

Only way this had an effect on mercs is if they took FoCuS word and actually changed their countries from war ready to pansy.

If Mercs Sold their SDI, troops and other war related gizmos then, I would say that was a mistake from mercs side before a problem with FoCuS.

FoCuS tells Mercs IMP wouldn't FS them
Mercs goes full netting.
Rockman messes around with IMP
IMP FSes the now easy Mercs
FoCuS wars IMP.

I would say going full netting was a mistake, to me War sets are War sets, even last set when NBK FSed CC and it was more of a slaugher house than a war, even after the fight was over, even after I joined SemperFI, I never dropped defense or sold war techs, let alone do something as foolish as selling spies.

I went to Land Trade with an Spal of 50 on average, with 2m troops/turrets and maxed SDI.

I didn't waste a single cent on more SDI or more defense (till I had reached my land goals), but sure as hell I didn't drop it on my own.

I was probably the only one with countries over 100k acres and an spal of 30.

Thats why I gave you guys 8 fluffing days to talk to me about this fluff, and you didn't. If you didn't ignore me, this wouldn't be on FFAT.

fluffie - the only reason this is on FFAT is that they've ignored me for over a week.

Focus was going to war you regardless of whether or not you hit us, so how exactly are they capable of defending us? You hit us, they war you. You don't hit us, they war you.

They didn't declare on you in defense of Mercs. They declared on you because they planned all set to attack you. They were going to war against you anyways.


And how the fluff did my attitude change your guys plans? Was it because you two-stepped PAN, and then I told PAN what we asked for when someone two-stepped us last set? Or because like I have already done dozens of times, I said disparaging things about your alliance? Things that everyone knows are true, and that many other people have repeated? Funny how bsnake is in CC, and actually declares war on you on FFAT, but I'm the one who, in not saying anything about IMP that I haven't said before, somehow provoked IMP? Or was it because Titanium, who should have been permabanned from the game, had his personal attack on a moderator thread closed on the B&S forum and I didn't even ban him for it?

You're full of fluff, Primeval. But I've said that before, haven't I?

IMP chose to forfeit our opportunity to FS FoCuS (they said this) by hitting you. I knew FoCuS would hit us and we did it anyway. They are now ~35 kills ahead of us in this skirmish and have a large NW advantage coming from two strings. On an even ground and us having the FS, I don't think FoCuS could have beaten us - but we won't know that for sure.

In regards to bsnake - bsnake is coming after us next round and we more than welcome it. Since ford is quasi-retired, I really don't have beef with CC as a whole. I actually find mdevol pretty easy to deal with. Not to mention we are also pacted with CC this round. Not that we really need a reason to kill you...

With every post you lose face and support. You're going to find yourself in a sad state when people start appreciating IMP decimating your unprepared alliance; which is also a shame - Mercs is a strong alliance name with a very rich history on this server. You may be the biggest mistake they've ever made.

Good day to you.

Why the heck would a DP ever bring this crap to FFAT?

because Rockman is super smart..
didn't you know KC?

CC declares moral victory on this thread.

Clearly it was our laying down that caused FoCuS and Mercs to battle to hit IMP first resulting in FoCuS to scheme so perfectly to throw Mercs in front as a sacrificial lamb allowing them to smoke IMP.

Since we knew all along we could not, in a million years, handle the bloody wrath that is called Mercs alone, we took a pop shot last reset and waited, once hit we laid down and played along with the rest of the server and watched with our popped corn in hand as it unraveled right in front of us.

Because Focus treated us in a way that one DP should NEVER EVER treat another. And then ignored me for a week afterwards.

Focus signed a pact with IMP that stipulated that IMP must pact PANLV. They made no such requirement that IMP must pact Mercs. But they told IMP that if they hit Mercs, Focus would war them. But they also told IMP that if they didn't hit Mercs, Focus would still war them. And then somehow decided that was their way of protecting their DP. That "we'll war you whether or not you hit Mercs" would deter IMP from hitting Mercs.

It appears that they weren't malicious with how they setup their pact, they just weren't too bright. It appears that I made the mistake of assuming that Focus was bright enough to realize the consequence of their pact, and that they therefore we allowing IMP to hit us. I was wrong. Focus wasn't trying to make sure that we get FSd, they were just unable to see the incredibly obvious consequences of their pact. I wrongly assumed they were malicious, when they were just stupid.

Focus jumped in to hit IMP, not to help out Mercs, but to get the 1v1 war with IMP that they wanted. They didn't come to our defense, they just threw us under the bus.

And I brought it to FFAT because Azz Kikr, Crippler, and Pain have ignored me for the past week, and my attempts to get this figured out in private. If they wanted this kept in private, then they should have been willing to talk to me.

Why the heck should Azz Kikr, Crippler, or Pain answer to you? You're not the boss of Mercs. Azz Kikr is. You're likely not a contact so Crippler and Pain have no reason at all to talk with you. And if Azz Kikr had problems with Focus, he'd be the one to talk w/ them. What you're doing here is unbelievably inappropriate.

there is love in this thread.../goes to chase butterflies.

Time to stick my nose in! (You guys put in on FFAT, so it's fair game afterall).

1) PAN and FoCuS have been incredibly close allies for almost the entirely of the existence of EE. Heck, maybe the whole time, but I wasn't in PAN until set 3, so I can't speak for before that. FoCuS and PAN have been in two wars where we fought side-by-side (SoF/IMP, NBK). Their choice to not give you equal treatment to what they give us isn't the sign of a conspiracy. It's the sign that while they might consider you good allies, you haven't been as close of allies as we've been with them for as long of a time period.

2) IMP actually didn't even pact us this set anyway. Not sure how that might have fallen through the cracks, but there's no pact between PAN and IMP this set. If you doubt that, check the grabs they've done on us and our retals this set.

3) Perhaps I'm missing something, but FoCuS did sign a pact with IMP stating it would nullify if a DP got hit, which seemingly means there would be NO war UNLESS Mercs, PAN or any other FoCuS DP got hit. Again, perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see how that implies that FoCuS intended to war IMP.

4) If they really wanted a 1 on 1 with IMP, why didn't they just declare? I have enough faith in Crippler and his gang that if they wanted to try to beat down IMP, they wouldn't WANT the advantage of having IMP waste missiles/turns on a third party first. They'd want to FS IMP fresh so that the victory meant more.

I like Mercs and generally I think you bring some entertainment and (most of the time) a level of knowledge of the mechanics of the game that's sometimes lacking because of the general warring focus of this server. But as someone who's looking at this as a outside, at least mostly objective person, I'm not really buying that Crippler and Pain were twirling their mustaches while coming up with this plan to screw you guys over or that the way they went about this was actually inviting IMP to hit you guys.

Twain - to answer #3, Focus told us themselves that they prepared to war IMP. That was what they told us when we repeatedly asked them to let us hit IMP, if they weren't going to do it themselves. Thats why I considered it a possibility that they had actually counted on IMP hitting one of their DPs, and made their plans this set based on IMP hitting Mercs.

But it seems like Focus believed that IMP would do a 1v1 with them and not hit Mercs, so it doesn't look like that possibility was the case. This is one of the questions I had for them that they refused to answer.

What I'm not sure of is why they believed that IMP would do a 1v1 with them without hitting Mercs first. If IMP will war against Focus regardless of whether or not they hit Mercs, then how exactly is the threat of voiding the pact and going to war with Focus meaningful?

That threat gives Focus what they want, and gives Mercs nothing. And from what I can tell from this thread, Focus didn't even consider the possibility that IMP would willingly void the pact to hit Mercs. As I said, from what Focus is saying, it doesn't look like it was malice on their part, just sheer stupidity.

And they easily could have resolved this by having Pain, Crippler, or Azz Kikr talk to me in private like I had requested. I gave them over a week to talk this through with me and explain what had happened.

Because I am a leader in Mercs, and I am a contact for Mercs. Azz Kikr and I work everything out by agreement, and Azz Kikr was supposed to be the one talking with Focus, but he's just completely disappeared for the last week.

im not going to read this entire thread, but it looks like Rockman ran his mouth again and Mercs suffered again?

you gotta love it.

you got the gist of it

Mr Ford - you are confusing Focus and IMP. Unless Focus took offense to me badmouthing IMP.

rockman you made zero attempt to contact me after the day IMP hit you and you accused me of backstabbing except demanding that i appologize to you for IMP hitting you (seriously?). i sure as fluff am not going out of my way to explain myself to someone with as little respect for an ally as you.


[14:47] <Rockman> or we could FS before you do :P
[14:47] <Pain> no because that would make me look bad
[14:47] <Pain> for preventing them from hitting you so you could hit them
[14:47] <Pain> and if you ruin our chance of war, id likely have to killy ou both
[14:47] <Pain> my members are pissed
[14:47] <Pain> they wanna war lol

azz told me this is what you had an issue with. the fact that you took that as me threatening to kill you seriously and not me just joking around has me seriously questioning your intelligence. why you believe i would be refusing to break my pact with IMP to FS them but then be willing to break a DP with mercs to kill you for hitting IMP is beyond me.

i told you i already talked to azz. i told him he can explain the situation to you as we have been playing together since the beginning of EE and he knows they type of person i am. maybe he just doesnt want to deal with you because youre stubborn and dont have much common sense when it comes to simple things.

i dont really care about much except for the asking us not to hit imp bit

since there was a pact in place that required a focus dp to be hit to break it then unless there was a an agreement to war that imp backed out on then the only way focus can be sure of getting to war imp is if a dp gets hit

do imp and focus think like that? it sounds not, it sounds like they both assume that a war would have been worked out

that a side who refused would lose face/honour/rep/whatever

but then imp goes and screws up a potentially good war just to teach rockman a lesson? which is silly, what did mercs lose? i had some 40k landtraders, could have made a top 10 or two, or some top 100's, without dropping members we were nowhere in the race for anw, were nowhere near tnw and our countries were all pretty ad hoc

i wasnt doing brilliantly but i believe i was ahead of the other non techer mercs mainly because of bpt, not sure about techers

wasnt taking it super seriously, arnt really upset i lost countries, the only really interesting thing i was doing after the CC war was trying to work out the best way to even up countries for landtrading, and i can still do that with even newer restarts

focus loses some fun, or kudos for beating imp because imp spends missile stocks on mercs and probably some actual stockpile, as far as i remember we only killed a few back though

on turns count focus seems to not have saved turns as soon as imp went to war and hit focus with low turns, so the turns were relatively even, in some ways thats the only positive from this

since both sides hit with low turns it took longer for it to get to be uneven, although anw and tnw are far apart now

the silliest thing about this is for mercs to get anything of this wed need to join in on killing imp and make that less fun for imp and focus with another 96 mainly restarts worth of finishers turns, and potentially requiring the odd extra kill from imp

Pain - we talked hours after IMP FSd us. You were the one who messaged me, but I was indeed interesting in talking to Focus, and after talking with you only raised more questions than it answered, I told Crippler that talking with you had not been helpful, and I wanted him to clarify what had gone on.

Its very misleading of you to claim that I made zero attempt to contact you after IMP hit us, when we talked right after IMP hit us.

It's also misleading to claim that I wanted an apology for IMP hitting us. I wanted the apology because you had repeatedly denied us the right to FS IMP, and had repeatedly told us that IMP had no plans to hit us. Thats what I wanted the apology for. If you had told us that IMP wanted to hit us, and that we could FS them if we wanted to, then no apology would have been necessary.


The log you just posted says that it would make you look bad if "you prevented IMP from hitting Mercs, just so that Mercs could hit IMP." But then what you did was preventing Mercs from hitting IMP, just so that IMP can hit mercs. Is that not equally as bad? Isn't that in fact worse, since Mercs FSing IMP is at least kind of close, and the weaker side gets the FS, whereas if IMP FSs Mercs, its just a slaughter? So doesn't that actually make you look worse than if you had kept IMP from FSing us just so that we could FS them?

That shows us how much you value us as an ally. You chose IMP over us. That's why I'm pissed.

enshula prime has already stated they were planning on warring us this set. even if they didnt end up doing so, we would have had a war with someone else. i think rockman fails to see this. my only concern was that they left mercs alone.

i figured the whole IMP getting jumped if they hit mercs was enough deterent for them, they knew if that happened they wouldnt be able to do much. apparently i underestimated thier desire to kill rockman. i admit to being guilty of that.

first i said i didnt talk to you AFTER THE DAY IMP FSED AND YOU CALLED ME A BACKSTABBER. meaning AFTER you said what you had to say.

second why do you keep talking as if i had ANY IDEA that IMP had plans to hit you guys? if i had know that IMP was planning to hit you it would have been a different story. you KNEW they *wanted* to hit you but the pact was preventing such.

Pain - I don't have the log, but I'm pretty sure that you said that IMP was your only possible target. I even suggested that you contact CC about having a friendly war with them (with CC getting the FS), as a way for us to hit IMP and you to have a war, but you shot that idea down. Now you claim that you would have had a war with someone else, but thats not what you told me.



I am grateful that you've admitted that you are guilty of underestimating IMP's desire to kill me. Thats much of what I wanted in the first place from you guys. Basically, I want a "we screwed up, and the result is that we got exactly what we wanted, and you guys got fluffed. We're sorry that it worked out that way."

Mercs isn't scared of war, isn't scared of making enemies, and isn't scared of warring those enemies. But this felt like our friend held our arms back while our enemy beat us up, and we wanted to know why our friend did that to us, and to get an apology.

<-- looking forward to netting next set :P

and the beat goes on...da da da da da

I'm just mad Focus hasn't made a war declaration post.

I'm just mad i still have original countries left.

I can't believe its not butter.

Sorry Rico.

Focus hereby declares war on ricos anus