It does suck to do, and isnt efficient, but we werent capable of speedkilling at that point when we turned from mains (aka kill someone in under 40 seconds), and if you cant kill within 40 seconds it will be walled.
Nbk's strat over last few days switched too, it was to target mains with everything. Anyone over 1mil NW was to concentrate solely on hitting mains reguardless of how many hits it takes.
It wasnt practical to do that sooner, as they woulda had a lot more restarts live and kill us, so targetting restarts decreased our losses by a lot initially.
here's how our warchats went the last couple days...
me: crap he is online with 126 turns and 500mil in cash
k4f: i dont care, keep hitting
me: sadface
k4f: shut up and kill you noob
me: but he is online and it will take us like 1k hits
k4f: i dont care
me: yes master
k4f: why are you hitting so slow, speed it up noob
me: *cries and hits enter faster
I remember saying that, lol.
Ended up getting him to break level after he got 10 FA's from everyone who was online, pub market was bought out of troops, then once he was at break level we speedkilled :D
Thomas it only takes about 25 lemming hits to break, that's far from an extra kill. The point was that by killing all their restarts they would not be able to replace any breakers that were killed. We were in it for the long haul, not short term. We were still killing their breakers everyday, in fact we killed more of their orginal countries than they did of ours.
25 Lemming hits of increased military losses and increased readiness loss. It might only be 25 attacks, but the readiness you lose makes it many more turns than that, and the military lost on a DH isn't fun either.
Thomas it only takes about 25 lemming hits to break, that's far from an extra kill. The point was that by killing all their restarts they would not be able to replace any breakers that were killed. We were in it for the long haul, not short term. We were still killing their breakers everyday, in fact we killed more of their orginal countries than they did of ours.
25 Lemming hits of increased military losses and increased readiness loss. It might only be 25 attacks, but the readiness you lose makes it many more turns than that, and the military lost on a DH isn't fun either.
thomas im a bit confused how youre a head of war.
hes in sanct?
1A - BLOWS
FFA- NBK4Life
~If at first you don't succeed, you are clearly not Popcom~
I'm beginning to really like this guy, Pain.. (In a guy kinda way, of course)
25 Lemming hits of increased military losses and increased readiness loss. It might only be 25 attacks, but the readiness you lose makes it many more turns than that, and the military lost on a DH isn't fun either.
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I believe even aponic is catching on here, which is a very good thing, IMO.. Thomas, HoW? Please allow me to help enlighten you, as you may need some lessons. At the same time, unless you've done this personally, (which I doubt you have) the effects, you can't actually realize. As aponic eluded to, the power of the intel group cannot discounted.
To lemming one time, say on a country that houses 6 or 7 million troops, might lose 50k troops and your country might lose 60k.. Yes, your readiness is compromised and you activate your spies, causing dissension 7 to 9 times before your next failing assault. Those ops if you have the right tech, and the country you are assaulting doesn't, (most do not) may reap up to appx 90k troops per op simply leave that country.. Initially, In 8 ops, I've caused more than 500,000 troops to leave the target. Yes, my spies were sacrificed, but the outcome was worth it! Services held for their demise held just as much weight, as did those lost pilots, that fly those bizillion dollar jets.
If you think you are above using the Lemming option, you certainly lose the opportunity to win a war, and likely will not not win an otherwise close war. Personnally, I hate lemming, but I hate losing a war, more..
Would that be an "L", I see on your forehead, Thomas?? *smart ass grin*
By some of these posts I've seen here and in other threads, makes me think we should not have accepted SoF's surrender..
As many cannot see how, Kill4Free's ingenious war strategy would have finished played out.. There's no doubt in my mind that Sof would certainly have been tag dead by the end of this set.. Also, NBK would have beaten them in every single warring aspect real, or imagined!
aponic's decision to surrender was a wise thing to do for his crew. For this, I also give him credit, as I try to give credit where credit is due...
Lemming attacks were made extremely effective resets ago. I never claimed anyone in SOF was unbreakable the entire war. To the contrary, since lemmings cause greater military losses to the defender than breaking hits, lemmings are highly effective. I used this method to break many of your countries prior to the 20th when I was trying to minimize losses. It is a great strategy, especially when you have extra countries, equating to extra hits in which you can afford to lemming.
twas maki who said sof was unbreakable.
you would think he would learn, i remember him saying that about aodt as we knocked them off to lol
big Q is, what tool will maki convince to follow him into a war with us again...for like the 6th time? :D
Then we agree to disagree. You say all this, but you fail to see the big picture:
1. You could have avoided lemming if you killed their big guys earlier.
2. That would have given them less breakers, meaning it was harder for them to kill you, which means you have more countries.
3. You lem a country and use spy ops to CD them. So not only are you wasting turns on DHs but you're spending turns CD'ing the guy.
4. I would assume he has a lot more Troops than you do, or you wouldn't be lemming. Which means your CD returns won't be as effective.
5. You will lose lots of Spies in the process.
6. I haven't used Lemming since Earth 2025, and at that time the military lost from a DH was more than the defending country. I didn't realize that was changed and saw no announcement about it.
7. You can question why I'm HoW all you want. But my track record in 1a speaks for itself. Take your shots all day, I don't really give a fluff if you don't like me. My job doesn't require me to be liked.
People like you are why FFA is a joke. You say 1a blows, but it's the dominant server in this game and always has been. The disillusioned people think FFA is, but the bottom line is the people on this server who have the most success also share similar characteristics:
- Unsuccessful in 1a.
- Need more than just 1 country due to inadequate builds, strategy etc etc.
- Have a lot of time on their hands.
- Have no life.
- Think they're better than everybody else.
Oh and QM ... 1 more. So you DH, CD, the kill is going to be much slower than if you had killed him before he grew / you got smaller. Eventually he will get spied out (and for minimal gains since the Troop levels aren't similar), and he gets online. Now he's bigger, online, and spied out. I assume he has SDI or he would have been the chem dump earlier on in the war.
So now you wasted all the resources/turns etc for nothing.
And Yada Yada Yada, people come from 1a, say ffa takes no skill, then get their ass handed to them in a fight (referring to you mainly, SoF did pretty good actually).
If you all know what to do and whats better, why dont they own the server?
Your 1a strategy is like 2 old style british armies. March their men up to each other in a big straight line, and fire away, until one side gives up.
It's that 1a is most people's priority. FFA is something to do on the side, and it is time consuming as fluff to hit with and wall for 16 countries. Takes hours per day, which not a lot of guys have time for. It's all about finding people with holes in their day and recruiting them, not about how skilled they actually are.
you are missing the whole point thomas. We didn't kill top down because we were trying to gain the advantage in hits. They were better war prepped that us so to kill top down would have been a losing strat. Instead we focused on gaining the country advantage which in turn allowed us to have a sizable hit advantage. We still killed their breakers but spent about 50% of our turns killing breakers and 50% killing restarts. Since the war started with over a month left in the set we knew that we could outlast them in restart activity so eventually it would get to the point where we had a huge number advantage (which happened last week). It turned out that they had about 40 breakers over 4.5mil nw and their next biggest country was 600k nw. We had over 140 countries between 1mil and 4.5mil so they had to use their breakers all the way down to like 150k.
The dynamics of a fight vs several hundred countries vs several hundred countries changes a lot from a few dozen vs a few dozen, unless you have a sizeable breaker advantage, then killing top down is a decent enough method.
And I am not even bringing in NW range targetting because you will probably just say it is a myth. But I would much rather kill someone in 170 hits, then kill someone in 340, the only difference is the NW you hit from. And thats what we were trying to do for the most part.
It's that 1a is most people's priority. FFA is something to do on the side, and it is time consuming as fluff to hit with and wall for 16 countries. Takes hours per day, which not a lot of guys have time for. It's all about finding people with holes in their day and recruiting them, not about how skilled they actually are.
once again, they why dont the many many 1a players that do play FFA own the server?
you are a retard. please stop talking.
1A - BLOWS
FFA- NBK4Life
~If at first you don't succeed, you are clearly not Popcom~
To be fair, NBK really did aim to kill our big countries until we began hardcore CDing them with the massive spy advantage we had. It was a really strategic move for them to make us take extra losses breaking them while they cut out our ability to restart. I think the main differences that arise from FFA and Alliance is that when you restart in FFA you do it 40 times and in Alliance, maybe 5.
Also, a good advantage FFA has shown in EarthEmpires is the ability to recognize formula changes. Lemmings for example are a much more effective attack now than they ever were before. I have said this many times before, that the information on attack effectiveness should be made public, but as I was told when I asked a good friend Martian, they, the main moderators and the admins have chosen to keep these formulas relatively restricted. Perhaps that is the right choice, but from a personal perspective it would be nice to know them off hand. Things being as they are, FFA has a tremendous advantage in creating new strategy and I suppose always has.
On a side note, coming from a similar perspective as Thomas only a reset ago, perhaps you guys could make a little more effort to prove people wrong with logic. Not that you are obligated, but building the community is a pretty good reason to go out of your way once in a while.
:( I thought I was using logic. Maybe it is just too advanced. lol
I can understand both sides of the formula argument tho. On one hand it would be nice to have it all public but it is also cool that you have to either learn it by trial and error or be taught it. It gives the committed players an advantage.
and about that CDing... you guys owe me like 20mil troops in reps. And that is just on my Megamind country ;) I was building Indy's like crazy and still couldn't stop you. lol
Haha nice aponic. And yeah your spy advantage was why we could not speedkill anymore tops. We couldnt CD em much at all, and we didn't have the raw troop power, a good part because of your CD's. That killing one of your tops woulda taken well over a minute, maybe even a minute and a half at that point.
And no one who wasnt in this war can really comment about how much walling went on. Basically if it wasn't killed fast like in under 45 seconds, it wouldnt die.
There are another 4-5 good reasons why I wanted to kill restarts as well, that I didn't cover, and probably won't, but it is all about balance.
Pain I know its funny little fluff Thomas is a HoW. First FFA he rolls over and dies in a war. then in Tournament he runs form the war with me. Then in primary he needs to pick on a country thats 1/4 his NW and army. Just because he cant take on a country with the same NW as him.
Sanct if you come back next set make sure you pick a HoW with some balls. Your first pick for your first time out on FFA was a joke and made your clan look like a joke.
you are missing the whole point thomas. We didn't kill top down because we were trying to gain the advantage in hits. They were better war prepped that us so to kill top down would have been a losing strat.
Pain I know its funny little fluff Thomas is a HoW. First FFA he rolls over and dies in a war. then in Tournament he runs form the war with me. Then in primary he needs to pick on a country thats 1/4 his NW and army. Just because he cant take on a country with the same NW as him.
Sanct if you come back next set make sure you pick a HoW with some balls. Your first pick for your first time out on FFA was a joke and made your clan look like a joke.
This broken record really gets old. I've proven myself in 1a, people may not like me but I lead good wars.
I'll repeat things for the 10th time just in case you didn't comprehend it the first 9 times.
FFA: We stated we were going to net. We stated we had no interest in warring. We made it very clear we would not war under any circumstances. It was our first set, during the holiday season, and we didn't have the time or energy to do so.
Tournament: I was a peaceful all explore, you AB'd me for no reason because that's the type of douchebag you are. You war on servers like Tourney because you aren't good enough to finish #1, while some of us try to reach the top. I could have wasted a set warring you, instead I bought tanks and tried to finish the best I could. I guess that's me being scared? Or not caring about you enough...
Primary: As usual your facts are all fluffed up. I was farmed all set. I decided to farm a guy a couple weeks later that had farmed me. He responded with GS, I responded with ABs, I got suicided on by 3 countries. I suppose that's me picking on someone, right? If I had done the farming you would jump all over me for farming, but because I was farmed it's still my fault?
You're an idiot and a troll. Find something better to do with your time.
Primary: its called a 72hr retal window for a reason Thomas. he had allies hit you because you came back 28 days later. If you like a war in Primary you and i primary 1 vs 1 no pacts. War starts sat. 11:59pm be in #sof on gamesurge for all infor dont show up ad you proven you are a joke of a player.
Free For All/Tournament: Its a war game you where pushed in to a war grow some balls and fight back. If you cant fight back then quit.
Tournament: I had no stock and just got out of a war. I saved turns then hit you and you where the dumb but with no tanks, to start with.
Primary/Tournament: If i find your country again ill war you ever time until you quit or fight back.
Kemo little busy this set but your on for next set.
ill say this again since you keep ignoring it. why is it if others say no to a 1 vs 1 to you then they chicken fluff jokes. if you say no its cause your just too busy
Ooooooooooookay... This is getting ridiculous, I didn't even read a few of the later posts.
Thomas, you say that we were wasting turns with lemming? Yes, turns are wasted for the greater cause. However, At the start, we were hitting efficiently and ended up with an extra 200 kills by the time of the surrender. Your clan had been split in half and the amount of turns you guys had left to break with was diminishing. I'm sure by this point we can afford to lem. We were getting to the point that our restarts were soon going to be strong enough to almost break outright - it was only going to take another week.
Argue your points sonny, but you keep referring to your 1a reputation... that nobody in FFA cares about.
1. You could have avoided lemming if you killed their big guys earlier.
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This may be true, in a perfect world, but it's not, as we were gradually losing the capability of killing tops, so depending on who was in any particular warchat had to do with how/which target was going to die.. If we kept up the top down strat it would have been fruitless, due to the turn cost of killing
2. (See #1.) IE. perfect world....
3.you're spending turns CD'ing the guy.
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Yes, not only causing nearly 500k troops to leave, but regain readiness, at the same time.. in 8 turns.. Did you miss this, above... Just had to get the target to about 2.5 mill, then our guys could take the guy down..
re. loss of spies?? Who cares? There's goona be casualties in war, and I was producing enough to replenish troops and spies lost...
4.refer to.. #3.
5.refer to.. #3.
6.I haven't used Lemming
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As I'd suspected, predicted...
'(unless you've done this personally, (which I doubt you have) the effects, you can't actually realize...'
7.You can question why I'm HoW all you want.
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I don't want to, but I can say it might behoove you to listen a little closer to what is being discussed, instead of keeping your mind closed , in tunnel vision mode. Actually, I can't seem to think outside the box at will, either.. At least not very often.. Sure, it's not rocket science, but there are many intense facets to take time to consider, which in FFA, if you don't pick up the clues, and make these adjustments, your likely fluff out of luck. I could give a fig diddly, what is popular in 1a...
.
and But my track record in 1a speaks for itself. Take your shots all day, I don't really give a fluff if you don't like me. My job doesn't require me to be liked.
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Track record?? lol, you don't really have one yet, here (FFA), but may certainly be building a negative one.....
Not that it matters too much, but I never said I didn't like you, did I?
So, you really didn't have much comprehension when deciphering my post, cuz you also either missed at least 3 things I commented on, or perhaps instantly discounted them..
I'll only say, you know what you can do with your 1 dimensional mindset..
Yay Lefty!!! atta boy!! :O)
Oh, re. this...
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We stated we were going to net. We stated we had no interest in warring. We made it very clear we would not war under any circumstances. It was our first set, during the holiday season, and we didn't have the time or energy to do so.
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I don't know the details of what happened to your crew, but what you stated, IE netting.. has everything to do with the workings and relationships necessary to pull it off. you might wanna make some effort in that respect, as you come off like you are all knowing, all seeing. It's not that hard to be humble..
btw, if you played in PDM, you are right, I don't like you.. I just don't remember why that is.... If never have played there, I take it back.. :o)
I thought I took a fair amount of time to "enlighten" you, the best I know how...
So,
The post above was basically an apparent waste of time. This post will be the last one, so take it.... or leave
Why does dumbrush keep challenging people to 1 vs 1's when it is convenient for himself. you do not post a fluffing time that you like. Talk to the other person and come to a time you retarded imbecile. I hate seeing trolls like you, you post nothing but idiocy in all of your posts.
been an old FFA method for a long time.... joys of having more turns to use....
Spies work as well...
this server has been as it is for so long... warring is different than any other server.... the rules remain the same, you can see that when any old "FFA" clan goes to war....
its one of the reasons NBK have remianed at the forefront of warring for so long..... some smart heads in there....
quite alot in other clans in other clans.... dont forget that ;)
<bsnake> 68,270,386 turrets whats that in NW??
<Crippler> 115m NW
<Bsnake> 38 mill NW nub... thanks for your netting advice.. Stick to killing nub
If you're resorting to lemming the guy, then that means his Troop count is much greater than yours. Which means CD are NOT AS EFFECTIVE. You disregarded that part. The closer your Troop count, the better your returns on CDs. So you're CD'ing for minimal returns.
And losing spies is a big deal in war. Especially if you have to CD several targets. In one day you can reduce your SPAL by 25-30% which takes a big hit. Unless you have 3K Indies on 100% Spy Production, your spy ops will be useless unless the guy you're attacking is a real dummy and has no spies.
As the defender you lose more military on a bounced attack than one that breaks.
Demos are certainly more helpful than CDs if you are going to lemming, but once you have put in 7 demos and reduced the break to 70% of normal, maybe CDs are the best option.
yeah no point Demoing past 70%. k4f are you sure that if you have half the troops it will still cd the max amount? I am pretty sure that is not the case.
