Two-stepping an accepted practice now?

BP

Member
89

Jun 14th 2010, 6:03:37

Just to illustrate what twostepping is:

Manchester United (#2486) grabs a bunch of countries.

Mr Cobalt (#2476) then farms Manchester United (#2486) before any retals can be done, ensuring that not only Manchester United (#2486) will be heavy into DR, but also that there aren't any land to regain.

In the old FFA, this wouldn't just not be tolerated, it was cause for immediate killing of all countries involved, without the need for FA-contacts beforehand.

However, this isn't the old FFA, wherefore I'm asking for the general opinion in the current server regarding this.

£-€

General TwizTid

Member
1145

Jun 14th 2010, 6:10:08

Talk to LaEs FA :)

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kemo

Member
2596

Jun 14th 2010, 6:13:45

its frowned upon and only gets dealt with if you can enforce against it

all praised to ra

Pain

Member
4849

Jun 14th 2010, 6:18:21

if it were me i would just do the retal on the country that farmed it. however contacting the FA of said clan might be a better approach.

cobalt needs a spanking.

Your mother is a nice woman

kemo

Member
2596

Jun 14th 2010, 6:20:49

next time starch your sock in the bathroom instead of in coach donny

all praised to ra

BP

Member
89

Jun 14th 2010, 6:30:23

In this case it was LaE, but what I'm interested in the server policy regarding the scheme as it's intended to circumvent the retal-system.

£-€

kemo

Member
2596

Jun 14th 2010, 6:34:59

what about circumcision?

all praised to ra

enshula

Member

EE Patron
2510

Jun 14th 2010, 7:25:20

im not really following the situation but my impression was

a) you got two stepped by someone
b) you killed them or did something to 1 or 2 countries
c) all your countries got killed

and now it sounds like:

d) you made restarts and got two stepped again

thats pretty lame

enshula

Member

EE Patron
2510

Jun 14th 2010, 7:26:49

as to two stepping, its silly, if you want to self farm just self farm, why bring someone elses land into the equation

although you can twostep retals if the break is too high or take too many turns or whatever

LeftyHa8er

Member
751

Jun 14th 2010, 7:54:36

if u two step imp lands u will be killed

MrCobalt

Member
157

Jun 14th 2010, 8:36:01

If you look at #2486, you will very well see your point is void.

1. no land left --> 24k+ acres is no land?
2. heavy DR --> 3 hits is hardly heavy DR

Edited By: MrCobalt on Jun 14th 2010, 8:36:42

SanP

New Member
11

Jun 14th 2010, 9:16:35

I use the following policy and I don't care much in what clan I am for it:
If you 2-step within 72 hours and before I took my retals: All involved countries die.
If you reverse-2-step on me: all involved countries die. I don't use a time constraint on this one.

I only enforce them:
a. When I feel like to.
b. For myself.
c. For my clanmates when point a applies.

You are free to do any of these when you do retals or getting reps.

snawdog

Member
2413

Jun 14th 2010, 9:33:09

Yes,two-stepping has always been a capital offense.
And all countries involved should be killed.
With the exception being the one that SanP has pointed out.
(my big jetter does a retal for me, and my lil beat up country takes it back)
Although i personally don't do that either.

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RaHL_DK

Member
360

Jun 14th 2010, 12:50:23

I would kill them immediately after I farmed them all

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Some Guy

Member
401

Jun 14th 2010, 13:27:06

Those alliance folks have been trying to push their rhetoric over here since day one.

It mostly ends up in them getting killed.

I say kill him for 1) doing it and 2) not apologizing for it

mrford

Member
21,378

Jun 14th 2010, 13:58:21

2 stepping is lame yes

but all your countries were killed because you just up and killed one of ours for it without comming to us and talking to us about it. And I'm sorry, but when you attempt to make a power play like that, you better be ready to defend your actions, and in this case you couldn't.

Next time just come talk to us as our fas are more than reasonable in situations like this.

Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

snawdog

Member
2413

Jun 14th 2010, 14:02:56

you mean Lae killed ALL his for killing your 2 stepping country?
Lame as hell.

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MrCobalt

Member
157

Jun 14th 2010, 14:52:07

Due to the obvious displeasure of two-stepping untagged. I'll try refrain from doing it. Happy?

Havoc

Member
4039

Jun 14th 2010, 14:55:27

Victory to BP!

Hmm that sounds wrong..

Havoc
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joeskin

Member
413

Jun 14th 2010, 15:39:30

PANLV rules...

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Sons of Liberty -http://sol.ghqnet.com

joeskin Sol kicker (#1123) [abSOLute] -> VolonterR (#1193) [RIVAL] 18C 116B

BP

Member
89

Jun 14th 2010, 16:16:37

MrCobalt, whether you twostep untagged or tagged countries is totally beside the point.
The question at hand is to establish if there has been a change in attitude and policy towards twostepping or not.

£-€

Crippler ICD

Member
3752

Jun 14th 2010, 16:35:34

it isnt besides the point, he would not do that to an esablished tag as he knows the countries involved would be killed.

Crippler
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[14:26] <enshula> i cant believe im going to say this
[14:26] <enshula> crippler is giving us correct netting advice

Billyjoe of UCF

Member
1523

Jun 14th 2010, 16:52:04

BP when I came back I learned one thing. Now a days people don't give a damn about untagged countries.

Two stepping, blatent double triple tapping, as well as killing on a whim.

It sucks because to my memory every clan used to have double tapping policies etc.

But crippler is right if you were in a clan it wouldn't be allowed. But now a days in FFA untagged have no rights.

Who wants more people to play this game anyway....

MrCobalt

Member
157

Jun 14th 2010, 19:58:40

BP: Last reset was the first time I ever had a country on FFA server. So I'm totally clueless to your history. Reading this thread leaves me with the impression it's obviously not popular. Thus, I'll refrain from two-stepping.

shooter

Member
68

Jun 14th 2010, 20:14:02

MrCobalt=evil

DISCUSS

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BP

Member
89

Jun 14th 2010, 20:15:17

Cripp, if you check the news for SOTA, it's the same story there.
Obviously though, there are very few clans able to toe to toe with LaE, which basicly mean my original statement stands:
"The question at hand is to establish if there has been a change in attitude and policy towards twostepping or not."

Untagged countries never had much of a right other than to give up their land :p
The real difference is that in the old-style FFA, the untagged you just had a go at might be one of some 150 run by the same player, and said player just might have taken offence and make you pay for it.

Still, the issue at hand is twostepping.

£-€

Billyjoe of UCF

Member
1523

Jun 14th 2010, 20:15:25

They allowed two stepping in 1A ? or where did you play?

i thought it was the worst thing in the world where ever you were.

MrCobalt

Member
157

Jun 14th 2010, 20:19:51

Sure BJ. Whoever we killed, we were free to two-step them as well.

enshula

Member

EE Patron
2510

Jun 14th 2010, 20:34:55

two stepping a kill target isnt really two stepping, its more recovering some of the cost of killing whoever

since usually if you kill someone you figure they owe you

its more like two stepping retals

LCN is farming then ABing iMag this set, if they for some reason wanted to hit themselves afterwards to move the land to another country no one would care if

a) it was just reducing their war effort a bit
b) the war was sill a real war and the netters in other places wernt getting jealous/grumpy

Twain

Member
3320

Jun 14th 2010, 20:41:53

100% agree with enshula.

If it's a kill target, two-stepping is acceptable, because by the general etiquette of the game, the person/clan losing countries doesn't really have a right to retal if we're going on the assumption that they did something that's a no-no in order to get killed.

Two-stepping on regular landgrabs always was an automatic farm/kill of all offending countries.

Dragon

Member
3712

Jun 14th 2010, 20:48:28

What clan are you in Twain? I just found out who you "were" and now how it is you know who I am and what I did. LOL

Sandman

Member
50

Jun 14th 2010, 20:50:50

1. Only do a single grab on a country.
2. No doubletaps or tripletaps.
3. No 2 stepping allowed unless it's a war/kill target for a reason
4. You're lazy if you do more than 1 hit on a country.
5. I don't care who you are or what clan you're in, you 2 step me and the countries involved aren't there next time you log into them.
6. If that's a problem? see #1.

Desperado

Member
2975

Jun 14th 2010, 22:38:42

what the hell are you going on about reverse twostepping?

if i retal for one of my members sanp, and they reclaim their land off of me, and you try killing one of us for it, more than likely every country involved in the killing of ours will be killed in return... along with the rest of the clan its tagged to

Originally posted by Primeval:

pants antler

Dragon

Member
3712

Jun 14th 2010, 22:41:42

I've always considered retal land as "clan land" if I do a retal that a member can't to get his land back, letting him grab those acres back off me is NOT 2 stepping.

And I'd go to war over it.

enshula

Member

EE Patron
2510

Jun 14th 2010, 22:44:43

desperado reverse two stepping is when you farm down a country, usually an all jetter so its thin

then depending on policies you might wait 72 hours then you wait until the retal has been taken on your jetter

then you farm it again

basically you benefit by running thin countries and hitting phat ones, but moving the land somewhere you want it more

snawdog

Member
2413

Jun 14th 2010, 22:45:02

Nobody really cares much about getting your land back off of your retaller..After all,it was a retal.

Edited By: snawdog on Jun 14th 2010, 22:45:28

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BP

Member
89

Jun 14th 2010, 22:48:01

Retals are not to be retalled anyway, are they, Despie?
That means they aren't in the equation for reverse two-stepping (probably more known as stripping the land before hitting :p)

Killtargets? Eh... You landgrab killtargets??? Thought you just farmed whatever you could from them before the acres are wasted lol

£-€

enshula

Member

EE Patron
2510

Jun 14th 2010, 22:50:41

dropping land then grabbing is also somewhat lame

since the goal is to hurt others, or just amuse yourself by getting big gains

but the differance is its a lot harder to make a case that a country or another country of the same player is benefiting from it in the way that twostepping works

NOW3P

Member
6503

Jun 15th 2010, 0:11:35

I'll put this simply as I possibly can so it's not misunderstood:

LaE does not condone 2 stepping land, however we also do not condone killing offending countries without first contacting a LaE FA. Failure to make FA contact prior to reacting will drastically alter our reaction the the solution. Should you wish to react as you see fit without first making FA contact, we reserve the right to react as we see fit.

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LeftyHa8er

Member
751

Jun 15th 2010, 0:14:26

he made a post on ffat said lae dont 2 step i am killing them. That would be fine for me but i do fa on ffat

BP

Member
89

Jun 15th 2010, 0:18:43

This far:
IMP says no
LaE says allowed but not encouraged
FoCuS says no
PANLV says no?
ESD says no
Has to be more clans out there!
Have to say the bias seems to lean towards "no" though.

Edited By: BP on Jun 15th 2010, 0:22:38

£-€

NOW3P

Member
6503

Jun 15th 2010, 0:20:09

I said we don't condone it, not we don't allow it. And here I thought I put it simply....

semantics ftw?

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BP

Member
89

Jun 15th 2010, 0:27:19

Corrected the post :)

£-€

snawdog

Member
2413

Jun 15th 2010, 0:34:33

Eh...And this is the 'NEW' LaE?
Sheesh...

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enshula

Member

EE Patron
2510

Jun 15th 2010, 0:38:06

now3p in a way your the one using semantics :P

id guess bp's first one was more accurate its just you either want to know before your countries get killed or would offer reps or something

whereas now it looks like you are ok with two stepping after bp's edit

snawdog

Member
2413

Jun 15th 2010, 0:38:37

I was gunna edit my last post but i don't want this to get lost.
If LaE is gunna try this bully-assed horse fluff, I hope that every tag/untag out there will stand up and say F.O.C.U.S and not allow it.
It is a standard policy to kill the offending countries, and for LaE to try and shove their weight around because of their size proves nothing has changed there.

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enshula

Member

EE Patron
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Jun 15th 2010, 0:42:37

snawdog i believe its a bit of a misunderstanding with now3p just wanting to auth stuff before it happens, which is what i used to want to do

of course it has to be reasonable auth, and demanding contact before every 2:1 on a pact or whatever gets tiresome but kills isnt as common a thing

snawdog

Member
2413

Jun 15th 2010, 0:43:40

It is VERY common for 2 stepping.
[edit]
Try it on an IMP country

Edited By: snawdog on Jun 15th 2010, 0:44:15

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Popcom

Member
1820

Jun 15th 2010, 0:46:36

Originally posted by BP:

In the old FFA, this wouldn't just not be tolerated, it was cause for immediate killing of all countries involved, without the need for FA-contacts beforehand.

However, this isn't the old FFA, wherefore I'm asking for the general opinion in the current server regarding this.

In the old FFA all this self farming wasn't tolerated to.
the skill cap for this game has plummeted. and it will kill the game with a few months.
Why play when there is 0 challang to netting and u can juts self farm to a million acres and get 500 mill NW every set?

1A - BLOWS
FFA- NBK4Life

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Twain

Member
3320

Jun 15th 2010, 0:49:12

Here's the original thread BP put up:

http://forums.earthempires.com/...mp;p=1276185278&z=lae

BP told LaE he was intending to kill them and 16 minutes later got this response:

Originally posted by mrford:

*nakedfacestabs his member*

Now, to me, that's an acknowledgement of fault and an acceptance of the proposed course of action. If mrford jumped on and said "Please contact us and we'll make reps/work out acceptable retals" then I would admit that BP probably stepped over the line. But with that response from mrford, if I were BP, I would have taken that as an authorization to kill those countries.