There are a few conditions. Most importantly, you have to have a land:land retal policy. I'm willing to fight for a land:land retal policy, but I have no interest in netting. The alliance also must believe in quality over quantity. Too many alliances, especially warmonger alliances, allow people to play in their alliance without expecting them to learn and follow the basics of Earth Empires.

Well all that war stuff, NBK is always a good choice, but a land:land policy, we are sorta the #1 people against it. (Mainly cause we are also against self farming, and the self farmers are the people who try to do L:L's).

I don't think anyone enforces a land:land policy anymore in FFA however.

So based on just the fact you like to war, the choices will be in no particular order.

Focus
IMP
Swords
BSS
KA
NBK
SoF

No one else really goes looking for a fight.

Heya Rockman,

Come over and play in KA. We don't have L:L per se, but we defend our land better than any other alliance in FFA. Check all of the FFA land records and look for the tag LaE =] We also warred IMP this reset over a few grabs on our fatties while we were already at war.

Come and drop by #kickass on gamesurge if you wanna chat and/or apply at:

http://kickass.legendsatearth.com/

Mainly cause you were the only ones allied to NBK who self farmed ;)

It is still true!

You have no idea how long I spent drooling over those fat defenseless countries, the only thing holding me back was that were you allied :P

Hey bro, come back to LaE with the rest of us nubs you used to play with. Blake is still around (Netting in PAN) llaar is with us, and so many other guys from the old group.

http://kickass.legendsatearth.com/Apply.php =)

hah, didn't know he was in LaE before my time =]

I'm pretty sure no one can say they back their members land the way we do =)

L:L retal policies are part of the reason the Alliance Server blows goats. I doubt anyone here will allow it.

Best of luck in your search, though.

KA will be happy to enforce L:L just to despite the person who posted before me

That's why I'm willing to go to war for it, and looking for an alliance that would join me in going to war to defend land:land policies.

My philosophy is that if you don't like me taking my land back, get more turrets or don't grab me.

Its amazing how the proponents of 1:1 retals whine about netters running underdefended countries, but then fail to get adequate defense to stop land:land retals.

Only really the self-farmers here whine about getting grabbed.

And any policy that reduces real player grabbing is a bad thing. Any country is breakable on this server so getting more turrets won't stop a land:land retal from anyone except very small alliances.

No alliance here uses it and almost every alliance here would kill over it. The last thing we want is to be one step closer to being like Alliance Server.

"My philosophy is that if you don't like me taking my land back, get more turrets or don't grab me."

Well if you followed that to the extreme, one could say, get more defense or we will grab you.

"Its amazing how the proponents of 1:1 retals whine about netters running underdefended countries, but then fail to get adequate defense to stop land:land retals. "

That is the thing here Rockman... there is no such thing as adequate defense. Anything can be broken. This isn't 1a where all jetters are screwed, this is FFA, where we cap how many attacks we do, and all jetters are just waiting to hit people for retals.

Oh, and btw we don't whine about 1:1 retals, we just retal anything over that (unless we deserve more then 1 retal for other reasons).

So true.... IMP knows exactly what the deal is on that. llaar made an example out of our retal policies.

double post

Anything that reduces real player grabbing is a good thing. When two players exchange grabs, the less skilled player benefits more.

If your issue is with self farming, then why not just make a rule that there is no self farming allowed?

Last time I played FFA, people took advantage of 1:1 retals and topfed my all-explore countries. Having to do 1:1 retals and not getting all my land back when I was all-explore really pissed me off.

I don't see why real player grabbing is considered a good thing. It penalizes good players unless those good players are able to bounce retals.

"Anything that reduces real player grabbing is a good thing. When two players exchange grabs, the less skilled player benefits more."

This doesn't make sense to me.

"If your issue is with self farming, then why not just make a rule that there is no self farming allowed?"

I love self-farmers. Saves time target searching.

"Last time I played FFA, people took advantage of 1:1 retals and topfed my all-explore countries. Having to do 1:1 retals and not getting all my land back when I was all-explore really pissed me off."

Topfeeding doesn't really exist here. Not getting all of your land back sometimes is part of the game. Ghost acres make it worthwhile much of the time.

"I don't see why real player grabbing is considered a good thing. It penalizes good players unless those good players are able to bounce retals."

Anything that reduces player to player interaction is gameplay-deficit. Why play an interactive game that forces you to reduce interaction?

I hope you find a good war alliance that will eventually suit you. You should go ahead and prep yourself mentally that L:L will likely not fly, though.

Anything that reduces real player grabbing is not a good thing. Not counting NBK, pretty much 95% of all landgrabbing is done on your own tag.

Up until we were not in a war a couple sets ago, having no defenses in all your country was not only a valid strategy, but people would actively defend their right verbally about running defenseless countries.

And you say when two players exchange grabs the less skilled players benefits more, well you are wrong in that too. I was actively attacking, and only on a small handful did the target lose land overall including ghost.

If you make yourself a good retaller, and you are an all explorer, I can pretty much guarantee you will gain land in any exchange.

Focus, KA, and maybe SOF sound like fits. The other war clans are against the policies that you seem to want to fight for.

we dont do l:l :P

Or not, lol

KA or SOF then are your choices

If anything that reduces player to player interaction is a good thing, then why not allow every country to make 1 grab per day on every other alliance in the game without being retalled? This would increase the interaction between players. Everyone would get farmed, but everyone could make plenty of grabs back. As long as no one did any multi-taps, then there would be no need for retalling.

Having no defense on your countries is a valid strategy. Since nearly all countries are breakable, what difference should it make whether you run with 5 million turrets or 0? Regardless of how much defense you run, you will need to be willing to war to defend your alliance's retal policy. It is either your turrets or your alliance's retal policy that will keep people from grabbing you. If your turrets are not sufficient, then why even get turrets?

With retal policies, might makes right. If you can war to defend the policy, then it is your right to have that policy. That is why untaggeds have no rights.

When alliances lose the ability to retal or to be a threat in war, then they get farmed. Why? Because they have no might, thus they cannot enforce any retal policy.

Kill4Free - you seem to have forgotten about military costs, building costs, tech losses, etc. and all the other pitfalls that happen when exchanging grabs. Even if both sides gain a few hundred ghost acres, how many extra turns are spent rebuilding? If I lose 1000 acres and have 50 bpt, and gain 8 acres per turn exploring, then retal for 1160 acres (including ghost acres), then I've merely evened out the land loss, I have not gained anything. But I have possibly lost cash and food, and I have definitely lost tech, military, oil, and the money needing to be spent on 1000 buildings. If I happen to be grabbed by someone who has the same strategy as me, then this will partially ameliorate the tech & buildings losses. I also suffer from decreased production during those turns spent rebuilding back to where I had been before the attack.

You assume that people grabbing each other is good for the game. Yet you never back up that claim. I assert that people grabbing each other is harmful to the better country and benefits the weaker country. If it benefits both countries, then land:land retals are obviously not necessary. It is only when one country clearly suffers that land:land retals are enforced - which means that your argument against land:land retals should not use a situation in which 1:1 retals satisfy land:land to illustrate why land:land is bad.

Kill4Free - I guarantee that a good all-explorer will get hit by countries which are smaller in landsize than them. It's incredible how the proponents of how 1:1 retals help everyone involved are the ones who can benefit from topfeeding an all-explore country. Thus, their philosophy of 1:1 retals clearly has not benefitted them sufficiently.

Hiya Rock. Long time no see :-)

More fun just to allow 1:1. Creates more ghost acres.



That's the thing. We don't really mind the grabs. Countries with no defense are hit more often than countries with defense, especially if you actually defend your own countries appropriately and don't have massive amounts of jets to break top countries with massive amounts of turrets. There is a benefit to being defended here... especially if you are not allied to war clans that love to pick on self farming clans that choose not to run any troops or turrets at all.





We often try to do our best not to farm our new/untag players to oblivion. We also aren't having the activity/participation issues that Alliance is having right now. Funny that, huh? A few alliances here will war you if you're caught picking on the little guy. The little guy may also kill some of your defenseless countries - he won't need all 16 to take out one most likely.



Another reason why Alliance fails.





Easy. See: stagnant Alliance server gameplay.

while I will not advocate for L:L, I would like to say that Rockman is inspiring some interesting conversation on many of the positives and negatives of the server.

Good luck finding an alliance. If you're specifically wanting to war, then the alliance I would recommend is KA, because we're allied with them, and because, unlike NBK, I think there's actually a good size to take on a few more players. (Sorry NBKers, but since you're both large and very good at what you do, I just don't see the point in advocating that you become even MORE powerful--take the lack of a referral from me as more of a compliment than anything else).

If you're wanting to join a netting clan with the thoughts of being a warrior to defend the netters, we'd be happy to have you in PANLV. TKO is probably the other premier netting alliance and FoCuS is one of those clans that kind of goes back and forth between warring and netting, and wars very well and is probably in the next tier of netting clans behind PAN and TKO--afterall, they've got the #1 country right now.

Start your own clan and have a L:L policy you will fight for ;)

One can say that why have defense since you will be broken anyway, but there are several reasons.

I believe I can describe this entire issue that has been controversial for months with a simple story.

Two fellows see a lion, it is standing there, not 50 feet from them, it starts growling and roaring. While the lion is doing that the first fellow reaches into his pack, and pulls out a pair of brand new running shoes, and proceeds to put them on. The second fellow says to him,

"There is no way you can outrun a lion, why bother putting running shoes on"

The first fellow responds

"I don't need to outrun the lion, I just need to outrun you"


End result is, sure someone is gonna end up getting attacked no matter what. It is up to you to make sure that someone isn't you.

And Rock, sure your all explorer may be hit... You have 16 countries, and I will bet anything that no more then a few are hit during the course of the set.

When you can get through an entire set while still having the bulk of your countries never even hit, you have not a single thing to complain about.

Tried that a few years ago, and it doesn't work. Techers & inactives & nubs will all topfeed your all-explore countries when you do that. If I had more than 15 countries in my tag, it might have worked better. I didn't have a problem breaking people, my problem was that I couldn't get my land back in one hit, even though I did no grabs on my own countries or other people's.

Military won't scare people away, lack of land is what scares people away.

If you couldn't get all your land back in one hit, perhaps you were the one that is poor at grabbing, and trying to make up for lack of grabbing skill with multiple retals.

Your argument is the exact opposite of what you were arguing about how it benefits the lesser skilled players.

And another difference between military and no military, if with no military, there are several thousand countries that can break you. With military, and a decent amount only a hundred or so can break you.

Landgrabbing does actually take skill for the most part to do. Most people who argue otherwise do not know how to grab.

I don't want to have to keep low networth retallers with high military strategy tech just to make people pay for grabbing me. I could do that, but it wouldn't make me skilled. Playing high land high networth high production all-explore countries with 0 military strategy tech doesn't make me unskilled.

Landgrabbing does not take skill. It is very simple to learn the equations on how to maximize landgains and to practice that process.

My argument is still the same. Exchanging grabs benefits the less skilled player.

Having a decent amount of military meaning that only a hundred or so can break you would make for a rather ridiculous amount of military for all-explore countries to have to keep around. Either that, or this server runs an extremely tiny amount of military.

Yeh. Some clans need to find the explore button. And I hate it when ur all-x gets grabbed or ur a fattie who gets topfed by some skinny land jetter with big difference and to have to do like a 12m jet ps with max weapons for 500 acres rather than the 3k u lost. My advice msg the netters to war against the warrers for l l. Ud get sof ka and pan vs nbk focus bss swords and imp. Actually sounds pretty fair.

Eh L:L shouldn't/doesn't fly here cause everyone has the ability to run all jetter retallers which should be made to optimize the land you can get back in a retal.. you then have the option to grab that land back off of your retaller.

"I don't want to have to keep low networth retallers with high military strategy tech just to make people pay for grabbing me. I could do that, but it wouldn't make me skilled. Playing high land high networth high production all-explore countries with 0 military strategy tech doesn't make me unskilled."

Few things wrong with this statement.

#1 - You have no idea how to grab, the mere fact you think being lower NW is to your benefit shows you do not know.

#2 - Having 100% of your 16 countries with 0 military strat tech, and I am assuming the rest of them with 0 weapons, not only opens you up to being grabbed, but makes you almost a freebie. You have the option of have 1 or 2 countries with strat tech, if you choose no, you can't blame the person hitting you.

#3 - You don't need a "ridiculous" amount of military, you just need to have more then people with the same amount of land.

And if landgrabbing took no skill, why do so many people suck at it?

im on the fence with L:L. i think theres a time and place for it. i certainly would never agree with all retals being L:L however if your hitting a country with 150% of your land then i would agree with L:L on that.

that being said if youre worried about losing land keep some defense. im most cases if you play for an established clan you can get away with minimal defense. i had a couple countries with 3mil turrets 2 mil troops and 1 mil tanks and i was still making a couple hundred thousand per turn not cashing. these were all explore farmers with over 20k acres. bus/res tech is not only casher friendly.

if thats still not enough, run 1 or 2 tyr jetters, and keep them maxed on milstrat, then before you take the retal hit it with the country that was LG'd a few times and then do it a few times after the retal. you shouldnt have an issue getting your land back.

Pretty much all L:L issues revolve around self farming in FFA anyway, very few all explore ones, if any, that do not have the capability to get their land back.

Rockman: Just join KA and you won't have to worry =]

if you're not going to defend a big fat country, i'll grab it.

And if you do it twice, we will farm your tag :-P

SOF tried to use a land:land policy the other set. It was very unpopular and we dropped it. It ended up, in a sense that we felt entitled to reclaim our land, end us up in a war, which we eventually lost despite a huge effort. I don't think you will find an alliance observing a land:land policy on this server.

KA is more or less the anti-alliance server and fluff talking champion here. NBK is pretty hardcore about FFA policy, but they are straight up about everything. IMP and FOCUS are less involved on FFAT but put up good warstats. SWORDS just came back and are an old school FFA alliance. I know very little about BSS.

That is about as inflammatory as I can get without writing an epilogue.

KA has a problem with SoF coming over to FFA and expecting anyone to give a fluff that they dominate the alliance server.

The weird part, to me is that this became an argument at all. Dude makes a thread and says 'I want to join a clan. Here are my terms.'

Then, leaving out he unbelievable arrogance and poor taste it takes to ask to join a clan and demand terms for joining, most clans post saying something to the effect of 'Good luck finding a clan, but nobody here is going to agree to your terms.'

Then, of all things this dude begins to argue about it!

Listen mate, as has been amply stated above, FFA doesn't do land:land. That's it, that's all, stop talking. I'm all for 'be the change you want to see in the world.', but the world doesn't work he way you want it to just because you want it to. As somebody said, you wanna change the server, go ahead and create your own clan and change the way we do things, if you can.

Otherwise, there aren't any clans here for you.

Hope you enjoyed all your attention.

And as result, KA is well on the way to being tag killed. :)

and TKO is 1337./

Ketchup is probably one of the better retallers out there, and I rarely see him do less then break even, even when people do hits with countries that have half the land.

As usual the ignorance of the posts on this board makes me smile, rockman several alliances here do 2:1 on all jetters just apply for one of those

its basically the samething but the FFAers refuses to admit it, at least thats how it was a couple of sets ago and I doubt that has changed since

in general they are against L:L because like you said it takes no skill to grab land and skill is a bit different from here and alliance, in alliance its about quality here its all about quantity

fluffFF!

Well grabbing does not take too much skill when you got all these self farmers around :P I will admit that, haha.

It does take skill to pull off though on non fat targets, cause generally you will get raped on the retals :D

If you guys need any help starting up maybe i can be of service, regarding alliance that is

for me the challenge was never grabbing land, it was being able to keep it thats the challenge

anyone can grab 100k acers on a day, but actually keeping it is a very different story (without self farming)

Agreed Ivan, keeping land is hard. When I make a grab (well at least until I had more then restarts to work with, lol) I did my best to keep my land. I think outta the 40 some grabs I did before our war, only 22 retals against me succeeded.