Experiment:
My country spal around 50.
Other country put me into spy DR doing 50 Stir Rebellion ops (17 succesfull).
Then, 3rd country drops land to 1 acre, gets spal like 200K (200k spies) and tries to bio me. He fails 17 bio in row (0 succesfull), then i sell all spies (0 spies from now) and he fails 10 more and again 0 succesfull (with 0 spal on me).

Сonclusion: country into spy DR cant be affected by spies. It seems unfair for me. Spies is nice part of game, why remove them from killing?

Suggestion: i assume probability is like (attack/(attack+defence))*DR, so, even if attack/(attack+defence)=1, we still have big chance of fail spy op. Make DR based on attack/(attack+defence) , like DR = old_DR+attack/2*(attack+defence)
This formula is first idea, so i dont offer directly this formula, just an idea.

+1

I've felt for a while that spying could use some lovin'.. I guess the real problem overall is balancing it. You don't want to give spy countries too much of an advantage, but the way things are now is just too weak.

Some day I hope this issue is addressed, but I think the devs are trying to focus more on modernizing the game interface and optimizing the overall experience for players. Minor things like this probably won't get too much attention right away, but I'm sure it's been discussed ;).

what GE said :)

How its minor?
"optimizing the overall experience for players."
Good spies makes me happy, so its directly "overall experience".

And btw, it tooks not much time to rebalance it. Tell me the formula and ill come to you with new, improved spies, so you will have just to implement it, wich will take like 20 min for you.

I agree with Duna. The way spying out a country currently works is a little too much. People should have spies to protect themselves from spy ops in the same way they need tanks to protect themselves from ABs.

Running next to no spies and then getting saved because you become immune after ~25 spy ops is silly.

First off, spy DR is stupid....I still say this is to protect netters. In the same way that stealing cash was taken away, only reason for it is to protect netters. Right now let's say you grab a country 30 times. After the 6-7ish hit that country goes into DR and then you only get about 20ish acres a hit and a fraction of resources. However when you get into spy DR, you simply just do not get anything. You are completely taking out spies from this game, you may as well just actually remove that feature.

If you are insistant on keeping spy DR, then it should be based on the countries SPAL. Here is an example, I'm sure smarter people would have a better base.

SPAL - Ops till put in DR

100+ - 20
80-99 - 30
60-79 - 50
40-59 - 80
20-39 - 140
10-19 - 200
0-9 - No DR

I'd prefer no Spy DR, but at the very least follow some sort of scale like I have shown.

I'm very disappointed in that this thread, which is a very pertinent aspect of the game and has been posted for a month, has received all of 3 words, addressing the idea/solution..

If netting continues to get the game builders' attention, and warring isn't improved or even mentioned in any new renovations, we might as well kiss the game, (in general) good bye..

I'm with Duna, Kalic and PaPa Smurf... I also feel that ops going into DR is BS. This, cannot be a big, time consuming fix..


Getting snubbed, via the "minor" statement, remains a slap in the face for those who believe it is far from minor.

Fundamentally speaking, the symmetry has been thrown out of whack, regarding the advantages that netters are allowed and the lack of any new ways to help those that do not focus solely on netting...


This is plainly not fair, not only to the person who spends their time to to post the brainstorm idea, which may or may not be viable... But also to the community who plays this game, day in and day out..

The response is also rude.. I don't know, if no response at all would be more rude.. IMO..

but I'm sure it's been discussed ;)
========================================
Do you know this has been discussed GE?


Perhaps the "throttling" was higher on the priority list, eh?

Continue to add advantages to netting, with few or none to the aspects of war, and soon there will be no reason to refer to Earth Empires as a war game, at all!!

I'd like to know if this isn't the goal of the developers in the first place?

QM Diver
NBK Prez

The attack limiter was more about server load than about netting, but the devs failed to see the failstorm of that whole idea, because they don't war often.


In principle Spying is useless in this game, Spy DR is the worse new thing I found in this game after my long retirement.

I like the whole idea of getting rid of the whole country killing nonsense, in favor of country mauling.

However, if we want to do that a lot of things need to be changed in order to reach some kind of balance.

Let's say that Spy DR works in such a total and complete way, because the targeted country enters a complete lock down under martial law, to crack down the terrorist, if that is the logic reason why Spy DR is SO OP, then balance it by making it last 1 hour or 2 TOPS and showing the ops on the news (like Country oh no #12 troops have deserted) or something to know when a country is in heavy Spy DR and when is leaving it.

The problem with adding ops to the news is that it then becomes just another military unit and there is nothing secret about it.

Maybe make it so that when you play a turn it reduces dr by 1 so that you cant just go into dr and be invulnerable for 24 hrs.

I do a ton of ops and dont think that they are as bad as you guys think but I do agree that the DR could use some work and also several of the ops need a little updating but thats another can of worms.

Well honestly Spying isn't useless, in some cases can be OP (CD can rid you of a TON of troops per op)

but Spy DR makes everything a pain in the ass because if the target is Spied out then forget about getting anything done (besides killing your own Spies)

as I have said several times

Add the Spy DR status to the Military Spy Op (Spy protection: Normal/High/VeryHigh)

and Losing Spy DR when you run turns is a GREAT idea :)
Would make walling quite interesting indeeed :)

failed ops due to being fully spied out should not lose spies

I agree with you partially Chaoswind. Yeah CDing can reduce a good amount of troops (well depending on how many you have). So, let's you pick your target, and you CD him 30 times. This is great, now you can effectively break the country down. And let's say you have tyr finishers. Personally I prefer to spend every possible turn I can aganisit the enemy. So, I would SR to gain readiness, but now the target is in spy DR. And I'm just killing off my spies.

What if there was a different dr for each op? That may be overly complicated but that would solve that problem.

I like the whole idea of getting rid of the whole country killing nonsense, in favor of country mauling.
=====================================
lol... NO! Let's continue to stop the hearts of pesky countries who farm yours, or otherwise belong to terrorists! "Maim", is the term used when causing enough destruction to keep it from doing much harm, for a while...

Yes, failed ops due to being fully spied out should not lose spies

several of the ops need a little updating but thats another can of worms.
================================================================
I don't know Synoder.. Seems these are the same can, just part of the gourmet worm population? ;)


I'd like to see an 'Anti-suicider' spy op. One that, if the leaders, of 5 clans send one, (in house Mods, essentially) confirms the evidence, and the suicider's country would be temporarily disabled,(72 hours) along with a message, warning them/him there may be further action, should that countries shenanigans continue it's previous type of play.

It's always nice to dream, I guess...

Was wondering if some sort of scale for Spy DR would be considered?

A suggestion

Spy DR shouldn't work on normal Spy Ops

if the whole idea is to limit the damage done by Spy countries, then Spy DR shouldn't work for non harmful ops :/

We get later to how broken that fluff is, but for starters change that chop chop move it :P

there isn't DR on normal ops.

O.o

Yeah I failed 10 ops in a row and I was like WTF

but turned out the guy had dropped land :P

yeah the DR thing should change!

Chaoswind, problem is you can put country in DR with Espionage or Raid Food Stores, so noone will be able to CD.

The idea to make DR for like for LG is kinda good imo. Like after 10 succesfull ops it will be just 10% of real result.
You cant solve problem of imba ops by taking it out. Rework ops, so it will be balanced. Lemming big countries down is main concept to make wars more harder and enjoyable. Atm if clan A takes out clan B, even if clan A will stop playing, clan B still will not be able to kill clan A, just because they are well protected. Clan B should have chance to make war intresting.

I agree with the ppl who think that the spy countries are to weak.

I will read this true one more time when I get home and do some further comments

yeah, I have 16 countries with an Spal of 60 on average (100 in a couple), and I can only do so much on 0 spal countries :/

Spies suck and it will be good if smb will improve them )

I think ignoring this aspect of the game really is short sighted.

The quick DR is just crazy, not to mention all types of spy actions being linked to the same DR. I like the sliding scale that PapaSmurf posted above. I think something like this would drag down NW a little, but who cares.

Also I agree that once the country is in DR that it should no longer kill even half as many spies for a normal spy op. Improving spying is just one more thing to make the exciting set after set. It would give yet another base strat to give people a reason to come back for more. One can only net gain or run a tyranny war machine so many sets before a change is needed and a powerful spy country could be that change.

If spy ops are so useless thanks to DR then why do warring countries keep the same spal levels that they did in the past?

How many of you warrers go into war with 0 spies? Spy DR will protect you so it should be okay to do so, right?

Because forcing the enemy to fail ops is important, also if someone fails an op in country B, during an enemy killrun and I as the clan admin see it, I can preempt a message and give my member a higher chance to wall.

Another thing is that even if most spy ops are a tad useless, CD and Demo are still fairly useful, and breakers need a good SPAL or they will be lossing millions of troops per day.

We complain about Spy DR because it makes it stupid to do the lesser spy ops if the enemy will gain protection from all ops including the few good ones.

inertia. All ppl are inert. For example i highly lowered my spal. In earth2025 i never come to fight with less than 20, now 10 is more than enough for me.


As for CD & Demo. Just nerf it and make other ops usefull.

And remove the Assassinate Spies option... if the target SPAL is already low enough for me to assassinate him, I would be doing other harmful ops directly...

Good luck with that.