"all arguments are moot" yeah sure...I don't know what was going through Zip and Marshal's heads or what they were planning but just because we didn't have a pact didn't mean we wanted to do something crazy like a 5 man alliance vs 64 we aren't stupid. Just because you guys started farming us didn't mean we would just sit back and do nothing. And just because you can grab us doesn't mean we can't grab your members. Heck! I didn't even care much the farming retals after doing the grabs because it kept me in DR (by the way before I got DRed by another ely member I already was 30-40 deep thanks to the farms) ...to you guys it's land to us it's personal...and now you kill us for making retals? ass!