I never like crap like this. I get offered stuff like this once every set or every other set (I like to think b/c I'm so friendly but mainly it is b/c kingme is so bad at this game...). Have always turned it down.

Should be a deletable offense imho.

How come you didn't mention #55 Bobby?

Well I was going to watch this issue more today to see what panned out, but of course you now posted so they will stop and your post ruined my plan. Hater! So I guess I will just go deal with this.
:P
Or maybe I will just watch more while I watch shark week kitty on a roomba!

sorry galleri:(

Xin, 55 made all his hits a few minutes after 4 did. There seems to me to be a chance he was just online and saw what went down and jumped in. I wanted to focus on the 2 countries it was clear what happened with.

I'll publicly say 55 is an ally of mine, but that didn't really factor in.

I know who all 3 of them are, heh.

I want to give my opinion on what probably happened here, but I would rather wait to see. Then again it will probably stop now that this here. Who knows.

barbie name set next guys?

SO DO I! :p

If I just accepted his D ally and he gets deleted... Where does that leave me? Lmao.

Alone?

No am I stuck with a dead ally or can I drop it?

lol I am not sure, but I am not moving in yet

In need of another def ally :P

Perhaps. Lol.

I know it's secret private tricks of the trade but I don't see what more there is to find out. Clearly Karim dropped all def and let other players farm his land.

Well, if someone offered you land (and dropped all his defenses), and then you accepted it, isn't that coordination?

Absolutely, but what if you just stumbled on the 0 defense country on your own? Can you farm freely then? (Or what if they offered you the free land but not with in-game messages so no one can prove you didn't stumble onto them on your own?) Personally, I hate it - if you're quitting, self-delete or just walk off, don't drop your defenses. It's not fair. I wouldn't mind making purple anyone found to multi-tap a 0 def country... and then the people giving out free land would start holding 500k turrets. Cheaters are good at finding loopholes.

Yep, but I'm not sure if Karim informed his D allies that he is dropping them, and thus they know about a 0 defense country. Notice how a bunch of people are looking for new D allies today, or how Serp is talking about having just accepted a new D ally?

I have spoken!

Wow. That's lame. I was watching him for days cuz he was fat and low in NW, but then the last two days his D rose a lot so I congratulated him saying he was a juicy target before. He then told him he was going on vacation and that he was dropping all his D. I only planned on grabbing him once but then I saw #4 farming away 6x already, so I grabbed him a few times knowing the returns wouldn't be great vs the one big grab I was contemplating for days.

Is this really coordination? Seems like this happens at least once every set and no one gets deleted. Why is me asking for a D ally using private msgs not coordinating then?

You're right that this always happens and people usually don't get deleted for it so you probably were right to feel you had the all clear. I do think it merits deletion though. If someone offers free land, you gotta know that's not fair. On the other hand, to play devil's advocate with myself, your three hits didn't get as much land as #4 got in one. Making multiple attacks does make more sense when you're not the first one in and the returns are crud.

Seems like if I hadn't tried to be friendly I wouldn't have been deleted.. ironic. I'm not messaging anyone ever again - too much risk of it being called coordination.

No, if you hadn't multi-tapped you wouldn't have been deleted.

And the thing is, if Karim never sent me that message.. I was already looking for targets at the time, I would have seen #4's 6 grabs since #65 had been on my radar for days and deduced he had no D or very little D, given I had ops on him the last few days and there was no possible way anyone has that many jets. I would have sent a small brigade to confirm 0 D and then farmed him anyway.

So really in the end it was Karim sending me the message that doomed me - I never asked him to tell me ahem, so still don't see how that's coordination. It sucks how if someone tells you they have 0 D you are no longer allowed to grab them compared to if you figure it out.

Argh. I really got hooped here.

Oh we'll, who needs a D ally?

I do wonder - last set a guy top fed me, I hit him twice, and he hit me again, and after serious negotiations where I explained why it was a bummer being topfed and all that, he apologized and dropped his def and I took reparations. I only hit as much as I thought was fair for repayment, but I wonder if I could've been deleted. :P Personally I think it was all in fair play, but I guess you gotta be careful now.

So galleri, tell me, in this case last reset: http://www.eestats.com/primary/oldcountry/455/180

Why wasn't Medina (blid) deleted?

lol dang it blid, I was digging for that history =P

Of course a major distinction is that it wasn't free land for me like it was for you. In your case it was just whoop free land! I had lost 5000 acres to that guy and spent $600m rebuilding. Clearly not getting a free hand out for nothing, I would have rather he never hit me at all. My nw would have been much higher and Cica probably wouldn't have fluffed with me.

I realized i would have been away for 20 days (actually until the day you go to vacation you never think to it due to rl stress) and decided to drop D and go all jetter/spies and look for some troubles the last day of play (tomorrow).

Then LATC came and said "grats" couple of mins before i was dropping turrets to cash turns for jets and spies, and told him my sets finished today.

Honestly i think this deletion is bullfluff: i can think of at least 3 sets in a row in which something like this happened (even if i don't remember the players).

Players were being farmed daily by friends and retaled the non friendly grabs.

If this is the habit it should apply to everybdy and always, not only to some and sometimes.

I will apply, even if i am leaving tomorrow, even if i am not going to play, even if it will be a pain in the butt to log in this incoming week end to see the reply, simply because i think i am free to play as i like.

If i want to go all jet and spies and retal someone but not everyone, it should be my right to, or not?

I remember this and that was so freaking dirty. That was some terrible cheating that they shouldn't have gotten away with.

Not on a solo server imo. I'm glad to finally see this sort of thing being moderated. Like, you realize you gave #4 a free 6000 acres right? How is that fair to anyone else?

blid, did #180 tell you he had no D? Cuz regardless of what happened before, if he told you and you farmed him that is still 'free' land.

You should have said it's still 'coordination' and you may be right. I wouldn't call it 'free' though, I had already paid up front. :P

It's not fair, but if i wanted to take a retal i still had to take and to farm the guy that over retaled me before leaving, i needed jets, and a lot of them.

I couldn't afford both jets and turrets for a 24 hours rush (damn oil at 374) and hoped my spies would have covered me a bit better.

Btw LATC, even though we're kind of debating here I definitely feel ya, you didn't get much land at all - 1113 acres - so being deleted certainly seems harsh. I don't think that's really an "abusive" amount of land. #4, on the other hand, seriously abused the hell out of that.

I call bullfluff, if you were planning on retaling anyone, you wouldn't be going around telling people you had dropped defense because a 20k acre CI is sure better than a 14k acres CI when praying to have the resources to break. Don't talk about FAIR here, you lost that right.

lol one of my SO's just filled. I can still net while I'm dead muhahaha!

Wow. Did not expect this to generate so much conversation. #4 My Rank Is was me.

Since my country is deleted for this set, I have nothing to hide. I want to lay this out there least some folks think less of me or Karim and to clarify some questions.

Karim did notify me beforehand, so galleri deleting my country under violation of "coordination" is justified. I have no problem with that.

Q.Was I aware of rules against this "coordinated" style of play?
A。 Yes

Q. Why did I you farm Karim knowing the rules against "coordination"?
A. To be honest, I didn't think too much about the rules. I remembered Mdina (#134) & Vaccine (#162) farming TheEnigmaticLabyrinthianEmpire (#180) last set knowing that he had 0 defense and won't retal and nothing happened to them and therefore I didn't think too much about deletion.

Q. Why did I farm Karim?
A. For 3 Reasons in no particular importance:
1. Farming Karim was the only way I could put myself in a competitive position to fight for the #1 Commie Spot against Serp or perhaps Dumsnill.
2. Karim was my Def/Intel ally for the entire set. He was horribly behind for the start after he missed like 3-4days due to a trip. But I kept him still as my ally even though I could've replaced him with someone with about 2x more defense than him, so I & Serp carried him as a D ally while he provided way less benefit than we provided him. I got topfed and lost over 10k Acres, some of which I am sure I could've avoided if I replaced him for a better ally.
3. Karim offered his country up to be farmed mentioning that he feels sorry for being such a bad ally for the entire set. I thought it was generous of him to do so as an apology. It didn't seem right for me not to take it and allow a random guy stumble onto Karim and have him farm Karim instead.

Q. Any last words?
A. Karim: I appreciate your gesture. I hold no bad feelings towards you.
galleri: You saved me about a day's worth of time by deleting me, so I hold no grudge.
Blid: Not sure why you are so gungho about this issue when last set you violated the same rule on "coordination" and was not deleted. You don't consider your 5k acre as "free" nor do I consider my 6k land as "free" either.
Serp: LOL, you are probably better off with a non-commie ally than me.
LATC: "'Don't complain. Assess & adjust.'"

My only regret is that I let 3 folks who topfed me walk away free.

While overall I like your post and how you're laying it all out there, I think it's insane to compare what you did to my round last set. The first part about "coordination," you can try to press that point I suppose, and I already said maybe my case was "coordination," although I don't think it should be considered that way.

But the second part, where you say just as my land wasn't "free," neither was yours, is insane... The guy I hit had literally attacked me for 5000 acres and cost me $600m on new buildings that could have been put into military and massive amounts of tech. It cost me also the 60 turns rebuilding that could have been spent making c-sites or cashing.

I would have been better off if I never met him even after the dust settled. The fact that I got some land back after a struggle of attacks, lost land, lost military, and urgent diplomatic messages can't even slightly be equivocated with you having a def ally that didn't have great def and that got attacked 3 times. Note that even though I took such heavy damages from our skirmish, I still didn't attack him as heavily as you attacked Karim, because I was making a deliberate effort to keep things fair and even in relation to and out of respect for the rest of the players in the game with me.

Here is the position this now leaves me in:
First off, it was brought to my attention by someone plus this thread made here. I looked into and debated it and then had martian (the head moderator) look at it, especially as this thread went on and a few other players came to me. Since there were no spy ops made on #65 it became clear that it was considered coordination. Had this never been reported, people hitting me up in irc and had this post been made about it, then I would have never noticed it. I am not trying to sound like a fluff here, but at this point because martian looked at it and because of all the circumstances I really cannot go back on it, look at it from our point of view also.

P.S. I never received anything about 134, 162, and 180 last set.

I think this is good precedence for the future on this issue now that there are clear rules laid out. Thank you for your time and thoughts galleri

To the players that got deleted this set, please come back next set! Each of you make primary a better game, seriously!

I'll think about it. Just quit alliance a few weeks ago, this may be a good time to quit the game altogether. Plus I will have gone out on top =) Don't want to play a game where rules are one way one reset and another the next.

Galleri, I never realized your job was to moderate only when something was reported. If I knew that I would have reported lots of cheating more blatant than what I did.. or didn't do. I always just figured you would see the obvious cheaters and do something about it without being asked.

It's always been that someone has to report something or she may not even know about it. I actually wish you didn't get deleted because I wanted to see someone give Haki a run for it. Seems like you got a death sentence for a speeding violation, basically.

sorry latc. but thx for da loophole gallery!

Oh no.. I'm afraid to ask.. what loop hole?

LATC I work a full time job and a part time job from home online. I am also a wife and etc.... I don't sit in the front the news all day long. I don't get paid to do this, I volunteer my time. Occasionally I will catch something due to the fact I happen to be on irc and see the news channel.
Sorry you guys would have to pay me to sit there otherwise to watch and wait.

Oh it isn't a loophole. Trust me on that and now that you opened your mouth I will be watching ;)

I get that, all I ask for is consistency in rulings. But I also know that that won't happen if you only delete ppl when its reported.

SO question, was my country # reported or just #65 and/or #4? If it wasn't, why was I deleted and not #148 also? And if not, ppl in the past weren't deleted either for the same scenario just because they weren't reported, so why was I deleted for not being reported?

I definitely reported bug and the people farming him but that was in an earlier time before the official notice about "coordination" crackdowns. Mods have been policing that stuff more closely the last 4 months or so.