could still be lots of big retals coming yet on who knows who ;) hahaha. I guess that is game dynamics. A game is a game after all and to encorperate game ethics and such is silly. People will have fun with the game in whatever way they choose.

could still be lots of big retals coming yet on who knows who ;) hahaha. I guess that is game dynamics. A game is a game after all and to encorperate game ethics and such is silly. People will have fun with the game in whatever way they choose.

Eh I don't see why anyone has to worry about someone else being able to get their land back. At the end of the day it's all about getting land any way you can. Some do it by farming little guys, others do it by 'retalling' late, as long as it's within the rules it's fair game. What Getafix did is legit and it comes with risks which he's aware of and is willing to live with.

Call it a low blow, call it a retal, call it legit, it's irrelevant - it's a way of getting land. Just because one person plays by his own set of 'ethics' or 'morals' doesn't mean anyone else has to.

People don't have to worry about lettings others have their land back, I didn't say they do in that bit you quoted, I just said it generally fits what people identify as a "topfeed." That's just fact (depending on definitions, of course), not a judgment.

I saw a good post in Alliance forums, though, I forget who made it, where someone said, "What's wrong with topfeeding as a strategy? It may be even better these days," or something along those lines. And someone replied, "Topfeeding doesn't work unless you are behind already, and therefore it will never be a good strategy." I mean, obviously it can help your country, but if it gets to the point where it helps your country, you've probably already lost.

True, but the alternative if you're behind is to make 5 grabs at a few hundred acres a piece. At this point 5 grabs is hard to make given the ppl 1/4 the top 25 NW. With GDI rules the way they are, 2 turns to make 5k free land is probably a better option. Plus you pull someone ahead of you closer to you in NW/land so it helps your cause even more.

I'll agree that it's not fun being on the receiving end of it, but it's a risk you make early game when the top players haven't risen to the top yet.

Bonus

lol

YOU KNOW WHAT THIS PLACE NEEDS? SOME JAMES TIBERIUS KIRK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz_0-dVo1uc

Ouch! :(

P.S. THE ENTIRE NOTION OF A "TOPFEED" BEING AN ACTUAL THING IS LAUGHABLE.

A PLAYER MAY CHOOSE TO GAIN ACRES BY STEALING THEM FROM OTHERS MUCH MUCH SMALLER THAN HE.. CLEARLY THERE IS A RISK OF LOSING ACRES TO ACTS OF FORCE IN THIS GAME. HELL, THAT PLAYER JUST EXERCISED IT (UNLESS HE'S AN ALL-X. HA!)

A PLAYER MAY CHOOSE TO RUN INSUFFICIENT DEFENSE TO PREVENT PEOPLE WITH HALF AS MANY ACRES FROM HITTING HER BECAUSE SHE'S CHASING SOME NETWORTH RECORD FROM THE PAST. (((AND PLEASE OH PLEASE SPARE ME THE EXCUSE THAT "WAAAH PS MAKES THAT IMPOSSIBLE." PRIMARY HAS DEFENSE BUT NOT OFFENSE ALLIES. IT SHOULD BE *EASY* FOR SOMEBODY WITH 2X (LET ALONE 4X) NW TO MAKE A COUNTRY ESSENTIALLY UNHITTABLE. ))) INSTEAD PEOPLE TRY TO STOCKPILE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS (WHILE THEY CONTINUE TO TAKE AND TAKE AND TAKE FROM THE WEAK). PLAYERS WHO DO THIS ARE TAKING A RISK IN HOPES OF AVOIDING MILITARY EXPENSES. WELL, THE NATURE OF RISK IS SOMETIMES YOU END UP EATING A fluff SANDWICH.

YOU, THE MIGHTY ELITE AWESOME PLAYERS WHO ARE SO MUCH MORE SKILLFUL THAN THE LOWLY NOOBS UPON WHOM YOU FEED, ARE NOT ENTITLED TO YOUR LAND (WHICH YOU TOOK FROM SOMEBODY ELSE). QUIT COMING HERE AND BELLYACHING WHEN SOMEBODY DOES THE SAME THING TO YOU THAT YOU ALL DO TO DOZENS OF PEOPLE ON A DAILY BASIS!

HA!
BILL
EXECUTIVE VP IN CHARGE OF INSTIGATION
THE MIGHTY CLAN [DANGER]!

It's obvious that SAM is the smart one in the family. You on the other hand, are the 'younger brother wannabe like big bro'. Do you have any original thought in you? Or do you just re hash everything he already said? And please tell me you are the younger brother cos if not, you are just plain fkd then.

B I L L is a top feeder

I AM ACTUALLY A BOT DESIGNED BY SAM.

IN ALL TRUTHINESS, I WILL TELL YOU THAT YES (AND I HESITATE TO EVEN TELL YOU THIS BECAUSE I CAN ALMOST PICTURE YOU FOLDING YOUR ARMS AND RESTING THEM ON YOUR CHEETO-ENCRUSTED BELLY* WHILE YOU LEAN BACK IN YOUR CREAKING COMPUTER CHAIR WITH A SENSE OF SMUG SATISFACTION) SAM AND I ARE IN FACT BROTHERS, AND YES, I WAS BIRTHED APPROXIMATELY 798 DAYS AFTER SAM.

THE FURTHER TRUTH IS THAT SAM AND I TALK FREQUENTLY. WE SHARE IDEAS, BOUNCE THINGS OFF OF EACH OTHER SO THAT WE CAN REFINE AND DELIVER EVEN-TEMPERED MESSAGES TO EVEN SUCH AS YOU, WE DEBATE (NOTABLY, WE HAVE NOT, SINCE WE WERE VERY YOUNG, "ARGUED" -- WHICH I THINK IS GREAT!) WE DO TEND TO THINK ALIKE AND HAVE MANY "GET OUT OF MY HEAD" MOMENTS.

I WILL BE THE FIRST TO ADMIT THAT I HAVE SHAMELESSLY ADOPTED SAM'S APPROACH TO THIS GAME (WHICH BY THE WAY I INTRODUCED HIM TO LO SO MANY YEARS AGO, SO YOU'RE WELCOME YOU UNGRATEFUL BASTARDS) WHEN IT COMES TO COMMUNICATION STYLE AND THE WHOLE DANGER PERSONAE, LARGELY BECAUSE I THINK THAT SAM IS A COMEDIC GENIUS AND SO, YES, IN THAT WAY I DO WANT TO BE LIKE BIG BRO. IN OTHER WAYS, I'M SURE BIG BRO WOULD LIKE TO BE MORE LIKE ME. I CAN RUN A FASTER 5K! I CAN WRITE CODE THAT MERE MORTALS CANNOT EVEN UNDERSTAND! I CAN SPIT A SUNFLOWER SEED REALLY fluffING FAR!

ANYWAY, NOT SURE WHY I'M BOTHERING TO EXPLAIN THIS TO YOU. WE'RE BOTH OLD ENOUGH THAT IT LONG AGO STOPPED MATTERING WHO WAS THE OLDER BROTHER (IT'S POSSIBLY HARD TO TELL FROM OUR BEHAVIOR ON THESE FORUMS! HA!). IRONICALLY, IN PERSON I AM OFTEN MISTAKEN FOR THE OLDER, PROBABLY BECAUSE I AM SO MUCH WISER THAN SAM!

HA!
SAM


* P.S. THAT'S YOUR CUE TO GO ALL INTERNET-TOUGH-GUY AND TELL ME YOU'RE 5'11" 190LBS WITH 0% BODY FAT AND YADDA YADDA YADDA. ;-)

HA! I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE h2o :D

I actually noted and told that to h2o yesterday lol. About the B I L L that is. :P

Also, fluff my life:
An earthquake occurred destroying 896 buildings!

2 turns later:
An earthquake occurred destroying 373 buildings!

... This game sucks.

tough fight between the techer and the farmer this set?
I see 145m finishes

Obviously not that hard to tell since I figured it out and I have only really read some of Sam's postings from all you all caps guys. Lol, @the 'wiser' comment, spoken like a true Lil bro. Exactly what my Lil bro would say too.

Also, I nailed it!

HA!
SAM
SAM. THE OLDER BROTHER!

Lol.

2014-04-15 03:48:07 PS MacXGee (#15) Brilliantly Incognito Land Lover (#43) 1200A (1968A)
2014-04-14 14:28:54 PS Brilliantly Incognito Land Lover (#43) MacXGee (#15) 3761A (5362A)

MacXGee is still down 1800 land here. He's also the player with the vastly better country. Would you flip your fluff if he attacked you again? And again? Because that seems fair to me. That's what's stupid about topfeeders. They only gain that much land here if the person they attack writes it off. If the person does something as simple and basic as trying to get their own land back from a weaker country, they see it as an act of war for some reason.

Like, you say his defense isn't high enough and it was easy to attack him. Sure, fine, so attack him. But how does it get from there to "he's not allowed to come get his land back"? Or would you be fine with that? And again, you have 20,000 less land than him? Then you've already failed this reset. Successful topfeeds by necessity boil down to this statement of purpose: You're doing better than me so I attacked you, and if you try to get all your land back, I'm going to war you and ruin your round.

Let's see if he will topfeed those who also attack THROW A BLANKET OVER IT (#134).

#43 is the defensive ally of #134. I felt, he retalled for #134. Well, it's just me.

The Nigerian Nightmare STRIKES AGAIN!

:p

BLID! WHEN EXACTLY DID IT BECOME "HIS LAND?"

KA MAC! I'M PRETTY SURE YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO SHARE INTEL OPS ON THE FORUMS. THAT ASIDE, I DON'T THINK WOULD CALL IT "RETALLED FOR" AS THAT WOULD IMPLY COORDINATION. IT"S ENTIRELY POSSIBLE THAT #43 AND #134 ARE RANDOM STRANGERS. MORE LIKELY #43 SAW #15 IN HIS NEWS FEED AND DECIDED #15 WAS A TARGET THAT MET HIS CRITERIA. I DON'T KNOW, YOU'D HAVE TO ASK #43.

CREST23! I WAS REFERRING TO OVERALL AGE.. i.e., YOU WOULDN'T GUESS WE ARE GROWN-ASS MEN. LOL

when did your existence become "your life"? what the hell is this question.

and yeah bill can't say it was coordination or he'll be deleted but it was definitely a rage "who is this guy who hit my ally?!!" spy op and attack. too bad his ally is now farmland, lol.

oh, and one indication it WAS coordinated is that the other country had retaled Imaginary, Black Pearl, Banana, and Break It Down Again earlier. so bill probably got confirmation that the ally could not make the retal this time before attacking

OOPS I NEGLECTED TO ADDRESS THIS QUESTION.

ONLY ONE WAY TO FIND OUT.. http://i.imgur.com/cqwWCKH.gif

you neglected to address any of that post.

I'm willing to bet one of them is bill and the other is Sam.

Also@Bill, you might both be grown men, but you will forever be lil bro, lol.

I AM WONDERING WHY YOU START FROM THE POSITION THAT HE *SHOULD BE ENTITLED* TO GET "HIS LAND BACK" WITHOUT FEAR OF REPERCUSSIONS.



IF YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE OF THIS I SUGGEST YOU FILE A REPORT. OTHERWISE YOU'RE JUST MAKING BASELESS THINLY VEILED ACCUSATIONS.

HOW MUCH ARE YOU WILLING TO BET? HOW WILL PAYMENT BE HANDLED WHEN THE BET IS SETTLED? PLEASE SPECIFY THE TERMS OF YOUR WAGER!

Because his country is better than yours, and because you initiated the exchange.

Of course I don't have evidence of it, but I believe it's most likely true. It just stands to reason that you wouldn't snipe a retal without discussion when the guy already took at least four of his own retals before. Is that too thinly veiled? Are you denying it?

IF HIS COUNTRY WAS "BETTER THAN MINE" I SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO HIT HIM. AND NOW THIS ARGUMENT WILL GO FULL CIRCLE SO THAT IS MY LAST WORD ON IT. IF YOU WISH TO CONTINUE THIS PARTICULAR DISCUSSION THREAD, PLEASE REFERENCE MY EARLIER POSTS FOR REBUTTAL.



OK, SINCE YOU'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO IMPLY THAT I AM CHEATING, WE'LL CLEAR A FEW THINGS UP HERE. WHILE I WAS JOKINGLY PLAYING COY ABOVE BY REFERRING TO MYSELF IN THE 3RD PERSON, I WILL CONFIRM THAT I AM IN FACT THE OWNER OF "Brilliantly Incognito Land Lover." (SURPRISE RIGHT? HA!)
OTHER RELEVANT FACTS:
* I HAVE NO IDEA WHO RUNS "THROW A BLANKET OVER IT" - THAT PERSON SENT ME A RANDOM DEF OFFER AND I LIKED THAT HE/SHE USED THE LETTERS OF POWER SO I ACCEPTED
* I HAVE EXCHANGED NO MESSAGES (OTHER THAN PERHAPS A HANDSHAKE UPON ALLY OFFER - I DON'T RECALL) WITH "THROW A BLANKET OVER IT"

SO YES, I DENY IT UNEQUIVOCALLY AND I SAY AGAIN IF YOU THINK I AM CHEATING IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM, PUT UP OR SHUT UP. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THE LATTER!

Ok. If you deny it then Ill take your word for it.

This is really dumb though. Like, off the charts

THANK YOU. I WAS VEERING DANGEROUSLY CLOSE TO GETTING ANGRY!



I AGREE TO DISAGREE. AND I NOTE THAT WE'VE ALREADY ESTABLISHED THAT SAM IS THE SMART ONE.

I guess I didn't have a better country than the guy with 3m jets and 40k turrets who topfed me in Express a couple sets ago either...

MacXGee has probably spent like $1.5b building up that 20,000 land advantage he has on you. Probably lost another half billion dollars in jets from making all the grabs to get that land. Probably spent a billion or so more than you on tech. $3b can buy him about 24,000,000 turrets at these prices, could you break him if he bought those? Doubtful. But he didn't buy those, instead he gained 20,000 more land than you, which will lead to vastly MORE turrets and military as the game goes on. He'll finish 50m net above you in the final scores. If he went to war with you, provided he put up some defenses to prevent getting pancaked off the bat, his 40,000 land * 5.3 * 2.2 * $66/bushel will be earning him $30m/turn, while you'll be earning half that at best, with worse purchasing power and lower max techs. Not to mentiom he DOES have 9m more networth than you already, last I checked. So yes, I'd say his country is better than yours, despite the fact that you were able to turn your weak land investment into a temporary ability to jet through his defenses for a topfeed.

my my my the entitled ppl are out in full force today trying to enforce their 'policies' and 'beliefs' with words yet again. I run Throw a blanket over it (#134) and believe me,RETALS ARE COMING. I did not authorize bill to do any retals on my behalf. 19.2 days left to retal.. with 80+ SPAL it's not all gonna be for land.

STOCK AT YOUR OWN RISK.

BILL, are you and SAM both from the evergreen state?, if so, what part?

THE PART THAT IS ANYTHING BUT "EVERGREEN." HA!


AND BLID, I KNOW I SAID I WAS DONE WITH THAT ARGUMENT THREAD, BUT I REALIZED MY PREBUTTAL POSTS MAY NOT HAVE EXPLAINED MY POSITION CLEARLY AND SUCCINCTLY SO I WILL PROVIDE IT HERE IN HANDY NUMBERED AND BULLETED FORM:
1. I REJECT THE NOTION THAT IT IS OK TO TAKE FROM THOSE WITH LESS THAN YOU, BUT NOT OK TO TAKE FROM THOSE WITH MORE. WE! ARE! THE 99%!!!
2. IF I CAN MAKE A BETTER COUNTRY WORSE AND MY COUNTRY BETTER IN THE PROCESS, THAT WOULD SEEM LIKE A VASTLY SMARTER PLAY TO ME THAN SPENDING MORE TURNS TO TAKE LESS LAND FROM PEOPLE WHO I AM ALREADY AHEAD OF.
3. CREST SMELLS LIKE TINKLE

HA!
BILL

Ya you're in Eastern Wa then, we should meet one of these days, I go to Spokane couple times a month :-)

Crest smells like bill, therefore bill must be tinkle. And I was going to bet you $1000!

Even with the letters of power you can't explain anything succintly. Epic fail.

This point isn't necessarily true, depending on the goal. If the goal is to finish as highly ranked (in NW) at the end of the reset, it is a smarter play to take land from people you are already ahead of, because doing so costs less.

How does this cost less? Simple. You might spend "more turns to take less land", but at less risk of losing said land. Using more turns in this case isn't actually a downside, all my excess turns go into exploring or cashing anyway, since income generates every turn (except for techers). Being retalled means you lose CS, you lose tech, you lose a portion of built land, and attacking someone larger than almost always requires more jets and oil than attacking multiple small countries, such that this loss negates most of the potential gains from the landtrade, unless you were attacking someone 2x-3x larger in landsize. Even if it was profitable to do so compared to "bottomfeeding", you would eventually reach an equilibrium point where it starts to be better to bottomfeed than to topfeed, as you approach the land sizes of the larger countries.

The larger your country is, the worse topfeeding becomes. At the extreme example, the biggest country (in land) cannot topfeed, since any retal would not be profitable at all, and such a country must bottomfeed.

This is why it is often explained that "if you have to topfeed, you are already in a 'behind position'" to begin with, and a good player doesn't let himself fall to a "behind position" in the first place outside of external factors such as being suicided or the 7 moons aligning in a straight line causing you to miss 5 days of game time (eg, irl work commitments).

DANGER I REALLY LIKE HOW YOU ALWAYS TYPE IN CAPITALS AT FIRST IT REALLY DROVE ME UP THE WALL BUT NOW I AM JUST LIKE THATS DANGER.

Also, plus, it runs a risk of a war if you hit the wrong guy who isn't willing to let you profit off his land.

Sure, take from those with more than you, but again this doesn't explain why you might consider war an option for the simple crime of them taking back what you took from them.

No point in arguing guys. Some people go strictly off the rules of the server, layed out by the game mechanics and developers, and others try to follow the alliance sever ethics agreed on by the players there. You cannot convince each other otherwise. You can enforce your beliefs in game, and only in regards to your own country.

I still believe that the idea of retals, RORs, topfeeds, bottom feeds, etc... Are all 1A terms and mean nothing here. Just my opinion. Every country I gain land off, I gotta watch all set and pray that they don't develope into a threat. Sometimes I get away, sometimes I don't. It's part of the risk of the game.

AnnonomousOne, if that is infact you, I felt like I was stupidly taking bait out of a rat trap there. I can't believe all those guys followed suit too. Especially at such bad DR. I guess I'll get ready. Lol

But Serp, I've never played 1A and those terms all make sense to me! There's different types of attacks and different words to describe them!

I'll go with Serp on this.

There's no right or wrong in solo servers. The ONLY rule that applies here is that 2 or more hits/harmful ops against a player breaks GDI which leaves you open to all attacks/ops.

Everyone has their own choice/beliefs on how to play their turns. Give them a break. You can advise them, but not try to tell someone that they are wrong in doing this or that.

Besides, if everyone played the same way, it wouldnt be fun anymore!

I don't really disagree with that, but I do think all the things I (and Xin) posted about topfeeding are true and valid things to say in response to the posts by Bill.

This is what I've been saying for the last yr and how every one of these threads ends up lol.. at the end of the day it's just playing style. You enforce what you can with your country, no use arguing the ethics or rightness of it on the boards!

Bottomfeeder and topfeeder are terms to describe attacks but they are loaded with emotive connotations. Bottomfeeder for example, reminds one of bottoms. :) Sorry, that was another type of connotation. I mean, they are loaded with negativity and are being used as insults.

Haha I like this guy, running 80+ SPAL is a complete waste of resources, but humorously amusing that this is what make the Solo servers the hardest to win at.

The terms bottomfeeder and topfeeder might be loaded to you, but they do not for me. They are simply a "definition" to me, and different people have different definitions for it.

When blid uses the term topfeeder it is used with negative connotaions because blid has judged that behaviour as wrong. He uses the term as an attack when he calls someone, like me, a topfeeder. The actual definition of the term is debatable but the loaded connotations are real whatever the definition is.